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More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a rela... - 8/27/2006 10:56:40 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		In general, is there a "policy" about this you try to adhere to?

**I am referring, I guess to whatever you may think of as "training". Do you sort of "work into it" and leave a lot of lee-way for errors or is a submissive or slave expected to work very hard and "get it" pretty much immediately, or face some kind of discipline? Or do you vary your "procedures" (if you have them)?
If you have a policy about this - why (or why not, if you don't)?

I know everyone is different and I know "it all depends".
But still...what do you think? Please just interpret it however it works for you. Just "roll with it"' okay?

Thanks for thinking  about it, and replying (if you do). Of course all answers (from anyone) are welcome and eagerly anticipated.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2006 11:06:52 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:15:50 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Susan, *another* great thread topic!
You're on a roll lately!
As for myself I'm less strict in the beginning of a relationship.
At that point I really don't know the person well enough to tell for example how much pain they can take.
Remember the thread a month ago or so about the sub who really wanted to be punished and the Master really beat her ass  with a cane in her very first scene? lol
It takes time to get to know the sub.
I watch to see how she is responding to what I'm doing to her.
I might use a cane on her but lightly to see what her toleration level is. I like to talk to a sub a lot too to find out what she likes, which things interest her, what level of Domination she is interested in etc.
Of course as the relationship starts moving along and we become more comfortable with each other I'll step it up a notch or try something totally different like sensual deprivation.
I wouldn't "baby" the sub though, she will understand from the start that she is not the one who directs the scene!
And I like to use strict bondage and a gag in every scene just in case she tries to change her mind.
And I use a leather locking collar on her too.
"Why are you putting that collar on my neck?"
"Because I like it."

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:18:30 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, popeye. I understand what you're saying.

Some would take the opposite view - that if they don't make it extremely clear at the beginning, that some things just won't be tolerated, that a submissive won't learn what is acceptable and what it not. It's matter of style, of course.
Personally, I am not experienced enough to prefer on kind over another.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/27/2006 11:19:11 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/27/2006 11:24:05 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I think making things as clear as possible is a good idea. But then some slack should also be given for the new one to adjust. My slave had no experience when we met. She wasn't sure that she could be a slave. But some success at it in the beginning gave her confidence, and now she has even exceeded my expectations. 

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(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:24:36 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Susan, part of the fun doing it the way I do it  (gradually) is that the sub can make a lot of mistakes that she'll have to be punished for.
Why should I tell her "everything" right up front.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/27/2006 11:27:42 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply, Estring.

popeye: I understand what you're saying, I think. So, you leave less lee-way, really.

- Susan 



_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Estring)
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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:40:01 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		I think I'm more formal upfront, to give adequate structure to the interaction.  When I started out doing D/s, I did a lot of structure, I think to convince myself and the other person that I was "in charge."  I'm easing off on that a bit, but I do like formality in general (maybe it comes from the rituals of Catholicism in my youth).

Now I set ground rules in one or two areas (how I want someone to dress for a first meeting, how I'd like to be addressed), and let the rest flow.  I like to see what a person is like without a lot of rules or expectations placed on them, because I'm curious about them as a person, and because I want to see what they feel like and what they offer.  D/s also feels like aikido to me ... move and respond, move and respond.  What I want from someone depends very much on who they are and what they are like.  In that case, I don't have my expectations pre-set.  (Actually, I probably have lots of expectations, just not on a conscious level.)

In subsequent meetings, I add layers of expectations.  I think all of the people I've spent time with have had a need to please, and so I like to give tasks and expectations that they can achieve, to build trust and confidence.  If I was meeting with someone who had a signifigantly different way of operating, I would likely adapt things.

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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:42:19 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		My Sweer Submissive: I appreciate your thoughtful answer - you really "get" what I am driving at with my question here.
(I guess I could have made it more clear for others, but it is late, and I am tired). Thanks for the reply.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MySweetSubmssive)
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RE: Dominants/Dommes - are you more, or less strict at ... - 8/27/2006 11:47:55 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		Mmmmm ... (smiling) ... Years of midwifery and trying to to divine what people want helps!

I'm tired, too, but (whahh!) was stupid and drank coffee this afternoon.

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/27/2006 11:49:25 PM   
MzMinx


Posts: 277
Joined: 12/26/2005
Status: offline 		I start of slow as far as rules etc go *smiles* .....I expect a boy to be charming, polite and thoughtful ....  but  it takes time to build the trust and understanding...  to then layer the likes and dislikes, expectations, rules of behaviour and  outcomes  *smiles* ..

the same as any s&m activities .... knowledge and understanding are required to be able to explore the person...

I consider any relationship is a journey .. not an instant thing that just happens .. even  though their can be markers along the journey,  such as a  collar .. or moving into the same  house  etc etc ... its never finished, its an organic  growing thing and its this journey that for me is the pleasure not  a specific  level

But  that doesnt mean I dont expect them to work hard and  be active in their attempts to please me ... in their learning how to give over more control .... to  submit and obey

Errors  fall into many different  types.... and although I dont expect a boy to know all my likes or dislikes straight away ... I do expect him to be trying to submit to my desires,.. to learn about me .... and  to be trying to be obediant .....so depending on what motivated the error/mistake influences how he would be corrected...  willful or premeditated  mistakes always recieve harsher outcomes ... no matter the length of the relationship


(in reply to Estring)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/27/2006 11:51:47 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		MySweetSubmissive: in my case, I ma just an insomniac.

MzMinx: So it's like "sumbission in stages" kind of thing? Sounds resonable to me.

- Susan  

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MzMinx)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 12:09:15 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I think being strict is a very good idea.  But its all in a dominants personality.  There are as many different styles of 'domming' as there are doms.  For me, I repsond much better wtih a very strict dominant, however this is not to say that I think a dominant should be close minded, or unwilling to listent to, and make efforts to know his submissive and possibley alter his methods in accordance to this so that the relationship may grow into something that can benefit both parties.  I dont envy the good ones, honest to God.  Id much rather be the sumissive party.  

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:32:25 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Marie, I tend to be more affectionate to my sub than most Doms that I know.
Instead of working on discipline right away I tend  to build up trust first through affection and communication.
The way that I figure it, there's plenty of time later for strict discipline and punishment.
How can you basically, punish a "stranger"?
You don't really know each other in the beginning.
I do the basics in the beginning; I might tie her to the bed face down and gagged and give her a light to medium spanking followed up by flipping her over, teasing her and a bit of orgasm denial (not a lot) and then using her for my pleasure followed by cuddling and telling her how sexy she is and what a good job she did obeying me.
I then might talk to her about say long periods of bondage or other activities and ask her questions about what she likes to do or any fantasies she might like to try in the future and how she'd want to do them.
What I'm doing by all that is establishing a repoire between us and starting to build a foundation of trust.
All the other vanilla information would have been discussed before this naturally.
I think the point is that you don't want to take a novice sub and give her an intense session right off the bat and scare her off.
And for a not so novice sub either.
Easy does it.

(in reply to marieToo)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:40:56 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		I work realisticly.

That is to say there are some things I simply won't tolerate at any stage. They are outlined very early on, before submission occurs. They understand that lies are a deal breaker, bad attitude and lack of communication are problems and will be treated as such. Most anything ELSE the girl needs time, trust needs to grow, she needs to learn how to please, I need to learn how she reacts and where her limits are (Not just play but emotionaly)

As time goes on I give less leaway for errors because at the start those are mostly caused by lack of understanding or come from insecuritys. As they are worked on then the errors are more likely to come from thoughtlessness and I am far less tolerant of that. Likewise I am less tolerant of errors that *I* make as time goes on, not just errors they make.


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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:43:34 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies, popeye and RavenMuse, and marie.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/28/2006 4:01:32 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:45:12 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I think to an extent it's a double-edged sword.

I understand what the others say about easing a submissive into their (possibly) new role, and allowing things to get progressively more strict.  There's a huge amount of sense in this.

What from I understand from actual practice is that it seems difficult to establish a routine of sorts, with certain freedoms not completely explained, then once the relationship is more established introducing an element that is 'jarring' because it seems to come out of nowhere.  'I've had it so easy, why are you taking this away from me?' (paraphrasing).

I like the idea of, from what I am gathering, explaining to a new charge that there will be some additional rules to follow as time goes by that aren't present at first.  This leaves room for not explaining in detail what life will be like, but to be aware that they will need to be able to make adjustments.

It's a matter of setting an appropriate tone.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:49:38 AM   
subinside


Posts: 233
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Toronto, ON
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

In general, is there a "policy" about this you try to adhere to?

**I am referring, I guess to whatever you may think of as "training". Do you sort of "work into it" and leave a lot of lee-way for errors or is a submissive or slave expected to work very hard and "get it" pretty much immediately, or face some kind of discipline? Or do you vary your "procedures" (if you have them)?
If you have a policy about this - why (or why not, if you don't)?


ok, a little about myself.. i have been around "the scene" for about 17 years, but have very little actual experience.  This is more choice for me than circumstance.  i feel (for myself) that it is better for me to not go and play with a whole bunch of people but instead to focus my efforts on finding ONE who is compatable with me and then proceeding to learn from there. A tabula rasa type of scenario.

Given this, there are certain things that i may know, but have never done and i would hope that any Sir that i decide to train with would take this into consideration and start relatively slowly with me.  Obviously if there are things i appear to understand/get/learn quickly, then proceed with caution to the next items.

But whether young, old, new, or very experienced, it will always take time to learn how the other ticks and exactly how they prefer/enjoy things being done and it needs to progress at a level that is comfortable for both parties.

< Message edited by subinside -- 8/28/2006 3:51:00 AM >

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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:55:07 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I appreciate the reply, mstrjx.

subinside, I think you are right. It will take time for me to learn also (I am in a similar situation, having had only 1 Dominant, ever).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/28/2006 4:02:55 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 3:58:16 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I see it in three stages.

1. The very first few times we see each other, I'm lenient.

2. After that initial getting to know each other phase, I'm strict with protocol type things.

3. After she has been mine for awhile and learned what I think is acceptable, the protocol may take a back seat because the underlying relationship is established. At this stage, I will also punish severely lapses in judgment or outright misbehavior.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: More (or less) strict w/ a sub, at the start of a ... - 8/28/2006 4:03:55 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		ExSteel: Thanks for answering. Your answers are always so clear.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 20
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