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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 9:38:40 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I have had to cope with this several times over the years as new dogs have arrived. I don't recommend crating them or locking them out. I have always just reassured them that things were ok and corrected any outward behavior with a stern "no" and a "go lay down"....which is a bit of a distraction....but after a few times they seem to get the idea. Usually after that they trot off to find a place to lay down when they see the floggers getting picked up.

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 9:59:30 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		This is slightly off topic for your serious question and I do apologize beforehand.

I will never forget doing a sub once whose dog had always been around when we played and had never caused problems, but this one time the girl started hollering almost like a howl while I was doing her and her dog started howling and ran down the stairs into the yard still howling. Girl howling, dog howling in the yard. It was so funny my erection went down the stairs, too.

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 8/29/2006 10:00:13 AM >

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 10:12:43 AM   
gretchenS


Posts: 237
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Good thing you ain't got cats, they wanna get their ass whipped too.

Ron



Mine they just kick back and enjoy the show...(those little fury pervs!)

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 12:20:53 PM   
LokisBrat


Posts: 431
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Mayberry, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchenS

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Good thing you ain't got cats, they wanna get their ass whipped too.

Ron



Mine they just kick back and enjoy the show...(those little fury pervs!)


Loki's gigantic Lab mix will come and investigate, and stand and perv.  We mainly ignore him, with some occasional reassuraces (don't want to give too much positive reward for that cold wet nose in weird spots!), and luckily for us, he loses interest pretty quickly and goes to lie down.

The cats, now that's another story, they DO want their asses whipped too, lol. My big lovey tom will lie on the bed right beside me......


Brat


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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 3:12:04 PM   
mzpatty


Posts: 22
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Columbus Ohio
Status: offline 		My youngest cali cat is like that.. If I allowed her out of her carrier during a scene she would be after anything moving. How I found this out? Well using a cane one day and she jumped right onto My partners back going for the tip. My older cali though is allowed to roam free since if she actually goes into the play area during a scene she just lays on the bench and watches or sleeps.

MsPatty

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 4:23:24 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Oh God, you have a Beagle?
Someone gave me a Beagle puppy when I lived in N.H.
At 0600 in the morning he'd be howling if he heard something outside!
I'd let him out and he'd be in the back; "OWWWWWWWWWWuuuuuuuuuuuoooooo, OWWWWWWWWWWWWWuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuOOOOOOOOO, the neighbors started complaining and he started digging up the former sub's flower beds! She was PISSED!
We had him for about a week.


He is actually very quiet. He is a loud guy when he is worked up, but he doesn't bark at everything. They definitely aren't for everyone.

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 4:28:17 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Leave him loose.. when he reacts to you..( he'll probably be by you..) have master toss him a treat to make it a positive experience for him.. However, shouldn't you ever NEED the dog to alert to your distress sometime.. you'll be screwed. Just a thought.
 
 If it were I,  I wouldn't keep the dog.  It's way to stressful to an animal if they love you and try to protect you.. to ask or train them to do otherwise, is cruel.


It might be a good idea to give him a treat to occupy himself, you're right on that. He gets a treat when we have to go to work, therefore he doesn't mind his crate and alone time. He had toys, but I guess those weren't tasty enough.

However, the last few sentences of your response were very insensitive and really upset me. It didn't occur to me that I would even have to say that getting rid of Barry is not an option.You'll have to forgive me if I happen to think welcoming a dog as a member of the family and then abandoning them if they prove inconvenient is 'cruel'.

We love this dog and he was abandoned early in his life likely because someone didn't think of what owning a puppy would entail (he is now just under 2). Thankfully a rescue group saved his life. Clearly you put your own considerations before the responsibility of owning a dog. We don't train him to protect us, he is concerned because he cares about us...we are the first family to love him and give him a home. He is very attached to me and when we are home alone and Master is at work, Barry follows me everywhere. It is because I care deeply about this dog that I even bothered to post about this. If I didn't, I would let him cry and ignore him.

I put a link to a picture of him so that you could see how special he is. How anyone could bear to give this dog up is beyond my comprehension! He's just so loving, smart and wondeful--the best dog in the world, I'm sure of it! I'm just so glad he has a forever home with us. :)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Miseri_/barryedit.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Miseri_/barrysit.jpg


< Message edited by Miseri -- 8/29/2006 4:59:54 PM >

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 4:49:15 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have had to cope with this several times over the years as new dogs have arrived. I don't recommend crating them or locking them out. I have always just reassured them that things were ok and corrected any outward behavior with a stern "no" and a "go lay down"....which is a bit of a distraction....but after a few times they seem to get the idea. Usually after that they trot off to find a place to lay down when they see the floggers getting picked up.


I will bear your advice in mind. There are two main reasons we crate him. One, and most important to me, is that his inquisitive nature gets a bit weird sometimes. He licked my nipple just before he was put in his crate (which he doesn't mind). That is not something either of us are into, so that disturbed the heck out of us.

The other reason this will not work, at least not right now, is that we are still training our dog. As a rescue dog, he doesn't know basic obedience. Factor in that beagles listen when it pleases them and tune you out sometimes.... I'm teaching him sit right now. Often he doesn't know to get out of the way/go lay down unless you push him away/yell at him. It's not his fault and given time, he will learn, but right now he doesn't always respond. Hopefully, with time and training, he will learn that he needs to lay down during these times. He is extremely smart....so, I'm sure it won't be a problem. Thanks!

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 4:58:23 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Miseri: I know what you mean about Beagles listening to you when they want to - they can be stubborn because (I think) their sense of small can distract them so much. I have a Beagle, too (his name is Oscar) - and I was reading that they have the third strongest sense of smell of any breed of dog. One reason they are used at airports as "sniffer" dogs to seek out drugs, and possible bombs, etc. In the dog world, the best sense of smell belongs to the BloodHound. Then the Bassett Hound. And then next, the Beagle. Their noses can rule their lives. I've not yet attemped to obedience train mine. Good luck.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:00:00 PM >

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:04:35 PM   
OriginalWench


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miseri
You'll have to forgive me if I happen to think welcoming a dog as a member of the family and then abandoning them if they prove inconvenient is 'cruel'.

We love this dog and he was abandoned early in his life. Thankfully a rescue group saved him. Clearly you put your own considerations before the responsibility of owning a dog. We don't train him to protect us, he is concerned because he cares about us...we are the first family to love him and give him a home. I'm not asking him to do anything. It is because I care deeply about this dog that I even bothered to post about this. If I didn't, I would let him cry and ignore him.


Ooh, thank you so much for not just dumping the dog.  I can't help a ton, because our dogs are not allowed in the bedroom when we play (the cats are), but I can say that you should take anything from Cesar Milan with a grain of salt.  I have some very serious issue with several of his methods.  Some authors I have found highly recommended by several knowledgeable folks are Karen Pryor, Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson, Patricia McConnell, and Brenda Aloff.

Here are a few sites that I've found to have a lot of good reliable information:  Association of Pet Dog Trainers (if you want to find a trainer near you to help), Clicker Training (a great method that I personally don't use because I hate the clicking noise), Positive Solutions (Shirley Chong's site, also very good), SitStay (a very good resource), and and Dogwise (you can check the forums here as well).

If you have a livejournal account, you can check with dogtrainers, dogsintraining, or maybe spo_prevention comms.  There are some seriously smart folks there, and you don't have to reveal that it's kink... you could say something to the effect of, "When my mate and I play or make love, the dog gets curious and/or protective, what methods would help to teach him that it's okay, without crating him away from us?  He was abandoned and rescued, so I don't like to close him away from me, but I don't want either us or him to get injured during roughhousing or the like." 

If I weren't under pressure from several other things, I could probably give much better advice, but tonight is a rather poor night in our house.  Feel free to message me if you want, and I can try tomorrow or the next day to give you some personal pointers for training that may work.



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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:06:13 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Miseri: I know what you mean about Beagles listening to you when they want to - they can be stubborn because (I think) their sense of small can distract them so much. I have a Beagle, too (his name is Oscar) - and I was reading that they have the third strongest sense of smell of any breed of dog. One reason they are used at airports as "sniffer" dogs to seek out drugs, and possible bombs, etc. In the dog world, the best sense of smell belongs to the BloodHound. Then the Bassett Hound. And then next, the Beagle. Their noses can rule their lives. I've not yet attemped to obedience train mine. Good luck.

- Susan


It's tough, that's for certain. Thankfull, he is incredibly smart. It took me less than five minutes to teach him to lay down. Of course, if he is distracted, that command means nothing! Beagles are also used to smell termites in walls.

What I do with Barry is simply conditioning. I tell him the command and gently show him. For lay down, first I had him sit (which he does automatically if he sees a treat), then I said "Down" (always in the same tone of voice) and pointed to the floor using the treat to lure him. To show him (only took three times), I first did the command with hand gesture, then I gently picked up his front paws and lowered him, saying "Down". When he was laying down, he got the treat and enthusiastic praise. It didn't take him long to learn. Now, if he doesn't listen after three times (due to his distractions), I gently show him again and then reward him and praise him when the action is completed. Good luck with Oscar! Email me if you need help.

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:11:44 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Miseri: Thanks! I will. I appreciate the offer. I love Beagles - they are smart, and so affectionate, and most of all, tranquil (I know if Barry is a puppy this might not be that obvious, but Oscar is 8 years old, and is quite the "floor potato" (as opposed to couch potato - he isn't allowed on the furniture). Nothing much seems to upset him, he's just pretty much cool with everything that happens. The last thing I wanted was a constantly "yappy" dog. Oscar did have a habit of howling and baying when I first got him, but I immediately brought him inside after he did that, for about a week, and he stopped doing it so much. Now he mostly just howls and bays at squirrels (who are his arch enemies)...I've read that the "Come" command is the most difficult to teach Beagles. I don't know if that's true (and forget the reason).

Original Wench: Thanks for all of the site references.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:15:44 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:14:49 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalWench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miseri
You'll have to forgive me if I happen to think welcoming a dog as a member of the family and then abandoning them if they prove inconvenient is 'cruel'.

We love this dog and he was abandoned early in his life. Thankfully a rescue group saved him. Clearly you put your own considerations before the responsibility of owning a dog. We don't train him to protect us, he is concerned because he cares about us...we are the first family to love him and give him a home. I'm not asking him to do anything. It is because I care deeply about this dog that I even bothered to post about this. If I didn't, I would let him cry and ignore him.


Ooh, thank you so much for not just dumping the dog.  I can't help a ton, because our dogs are not allowed in the bedroom when we play (the cats are), but I can say that you should take anything from Cesar Milan with a grain of salt. 


Thanks! I had to edit and re-edit my response to that so that I didn't sound mean. Especially since he was a rescue, abandonment pisses me off. That was someone else's answer and look where it left my poor dog. It's heartbreaking. Besides, he is a loved family member.

I am not too familiar with Milan's techniques, but I don't agree with poking my dog in the neck. For one thing, Barry would likely find it playful because we roughouse and for another, I don't actually hit or attempt to scare my dog. For issues that warrant it, I will lay him on his back and gently hold his muzzle. I will stare him down until he looks away, establishing that I am dominant. This is exactly what Barry did to another dog who he wanted to put in place! It is something he can understand and it does not hurt him.

Barry had a lot to learn when he came to live here. We had to housebreak him for one thing! With love, he really has settled down. I do appreciate your resources and will check them out! I'm just lucky I have a smart dog who learns easily. Feel free to email me if you would like!

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:18:58 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I love Beagles - they are smart, and so affectionate, and most of all, tranquil (I know if Barry is a puppy this might not be that obvious, but Oscar is 8 years old, and is quite the "floor potato" (as opposed to couch potato - he isn't allowed on the furniture). I've read that the "Come" command is the most difficult to teach Beagles. I don't know if that's true (and forget the reason).


Beagles are so wonderful. Barry is just under two. He was one and half (estimated) when we adopted him in March. He is a good balance of playful and lazy (we are quite lazy). In fact, last night, he fell asleep between Master's legs with his head on Master's thigh (he is allowed on the couch and in our bed). Barry knows his name and will sometimes come to us if nothing interesting is going on, but I could see that being hard. We haven't gotten there yet. Barry listens to me better than Master (because I trained Barry, I expect). It really irritates Master when Barry doesn't listen! haha

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 5:24:04 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		 
Miseri: Not trying to hi-jack the thread with doggie small talk, but it's great to adopt a dog who is at least a year old, I think. I also got Oscar when he was about a year old, and didn't have to do any paper or house training at all! It was great. If I ever get another dog, I am getting one who is not a pup for this reason.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:25:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 6:04:13 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		A dog is a persons best friend,they will protect their owner/master?Probably till death if need be,scening within range of one's dog,is sure to cause it stress,especially when it cannot do anything about what it perceives.I for one would not be happy with a dog present,purely for these reasons.I have had a dog,a welsh border collie,sometimes I wondered if that thing was the nearest thing to a wolf.Soft it was,but the gods help a stranger that came too near our family.And it had no respect for representatives of the law,and not through training.That creature I know would protect till death.I am a cat man,I love cats,they are no problem,I often wonder what goes through their noodle,what are they understanding.But personally,I would prefer that no animal was present during a scene,it is not for them,save them for other activities.

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 6:59:53 PM   
OriginalWench


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I often wonder what goes through their noodle,what are they understanding.But personally,I would prefer that no animal was present during a scene,it is not for them,save them for other activities.


On the extremely rare occasions when we actually have the house to ourselves, and can have fun in other places besides our bedroom with the door closed (darned kids!), the dogs were far more likely to be upset at being out of our sight than The Mate drawing cries of any kind from me.  Of course, all of the dogs know I'm above them in rank, and the male considers The Mate the ultimate alpha of the house... so it follows that they would be fine with him 'disciplining' me. 

The cats can get in the way at times, and a couple of them really worry about us, so they try to cuddle me or him at those times, which relegates them to outside the door most times.  My tortie got whacked with the crop one night, which gave us quite the laugh (she wasn't hurt) and sidelined play for half an hour or so. 

quote:

Not trying to hi-jack the thread with doggie small talk, but it's great to adopt a dog who is at least a year old, I think. I also got Oscar when he was about a year old, and didn't have to do any paper or house training at all! It was great. If I ever get another dog, I am getting one who is not a pup for this reason.


I dream of someday being able to adopt only dogs that are housebroken.  Unfortunately, all opur dogs have been rescue, and it's taken bunches of work to housetrain them.  We still have the occasional accident, but it's not so bad when it's on the concrete floor in the basement.  Easy to clean and disinfect, at least.

quote:

Thanks! I had to edit and re-edit my response to that so that I didn't sound mean. Especially since he was a rescue, abandonment pisses me off. That was someone else's answer and look where it left my poor dog. It's heartbreaking. Besides, he is a loved family member.

I am not too familiar with Milan's techniques, but I don't agree with poking my dog in the neck.


As someone who does animal rescue, I truly appreciate people who love their animals enough to work through the rough things with them.  ANd smart dogs are wonderful and frustrating all at once.  Our husky is way way smart, and it's almost scary at times.

I could go on for a LONG time about Cesar, I think he has a few good points, but in general he is just a real moron.  I'm really leery of anybody who advocates alpha rolling, and claims that EVERY dog's problem is one of dominance.

And I just realized that I've nearly posted more about animals here on the boards than about  WIITWD!  Better go change that! Hee hee.


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"I'm too young to have Alzheimer's. I have Halfzheimers."

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 8:26:41 PM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		OriginalWench: It is hard work with a rescue. It took about a month for him to settle in. We even had to get doggie xanax for him because once he realised his foster family wasn't coming for him, he started having panic attacks! Then there was the chewing and the housebreaking.....he was absolutely worth the effort. Rescues are some of the most loving dogs because they know what it is like to be unloved. I'd like to volunteer with BREW once Barry is more trained (he isn't ready to visit prospective adopters yet! We need good manners so they want to get a beagle after all!) Bar-Bar is sleeping in between Master's legs again....aww. I know what you mean about being too smart...he thought stopping on a certain step would put him level with my passing dinner plate and he was right! He also runs to the window to look if I tell him Daddy is coming home.

I hope we don't get into trouble because we are slightly off-topic. I guess neither of us can say enough about rescues and the dogs you can get from them.

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/29/2006 8:46:10 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrrPete

I wonder how Cesar Milano would handle this? [The Dog Whisperer]


Keep a calm dominant energy until the dog becomes submissive.  (I crack up every time he says that :)

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RE: Dog Worried About My Cries of Pain... - 8/30/2006 1:29:25 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings
 
oh my your dog is hearing you with or without you gag they have the hearing so strong they can hear when a earthquake is coming, i also know putting him in the box will make him a mad dog how big is he? i would watch out he may bite the one who beats he is very upset you could put him outside twenty miles away he will hear you. i suggest you place him in a kennel when your having you beating and play times this is best
 
i wish you well
 
mons

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