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How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 4:11:12 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I've read that the ability to be empathic is very important in a bdsm partner (and please - don't anyone tell me the correct spelling of this word is empathetic, it's not - it's empathic). Anyway - I've read it is important for the other person to actually be able to imagine themselves in the other person's shoes, so to speak. Not just during a scene, but maybe during the "rest" of their lives also. So - I am wondering:

1) How true anyone thinks this is, and where it might particulary apply in their own bdsm relationship(s) - current, past, or hoped for future ones. And -

2) How anyone thinks they can tell how empathic a person is, before getting very involved with that person.
Are there subtle "clues" one can see in their behavior? Besides really obvious insensitivity, I mean.

My dad has Ph. D. and a long career in social work, and he once told me that people who aren't raised with much empathy can have a difficult time displaying it, (because they were raised with little of it as a child). He also said there is evidence that points to it perhaps being somewhat of a genetic trait (this is still in "debate", I guess). My dead husband wasn't very empathic and I think, because of the saying that "girls marry men like their fathers", that my dad was always somewhat confused by my choice of a husband (my dad is so unlike my husband was, really), although they got along okay. I didn't find out how un-empathic my husband was for a couple of years, though.

Some people can put on quite a considerate show in the beginning of a relationship, if they think it will do them some good, and then make it disappear when they think they have established a relationship with them. With some of the folks involved in the bdsm 'world' who might be coming from an abusive back-ground, this question concerns me alittle. I am not trying to seem predjuduced, or saying all people who have been abused become abusers (heck, I do volunteer work with abused unmentionables). But, this thought has, on occasion, given me some pause. So - Please don't flame me for simply stating a concern. I do see plenty of people around here online who seem to know how to be empathic (but I'd still appreciate replies to the above questions).

Thanks to anyone who replies. I appreciate the comments.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 4:53:55 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 4:26:18 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Also - what is your definition of empathy as if applies to bdsm "play"? Do you have one?
Thnaks.

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 4:47:19 PM   
liljoy


Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline 		wow Susan another GREAT question i think it would deffinatly help if He is at least somewhat empathic. If for no other reason than the fact that i am to the point that others feelings can drain me or energize me. If He is empathic He will be more able to understand my reactions to certain people.
As for subtle clues i'm not sure because some of the clues i'm thinking of are also things that i think Dominants tend to be good at such as reading our reactions to know if we are struggling with something before we can even express it. Knowing just the right things to do to drive us wild with desire.
lil_joy

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 4:51:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I really appreciate your reply, liljoy. Thank you.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to liljoy)
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 4:56:39 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You say potato and I say potatoe...smiles.. both empathic and empathetic mean roughly the same thing and I am used to describing it empathetic..

I think that empathic people are those who actually feel what others feel. Empathetic means more of a sympathy thing. I want someone that is sympathetic, not necessarily empathic. I am empathic enough for two people and I do not need my partner to be. I would like him to be able to sympathize with me, understand me.. it is not necessary for him to feel what I do. In fact it is a burden for the empathic person to be this way, at times a disabling one. I need him to be centered into the root of what he feels to be able to connect with me, in my experience empathic people have difficulty separating their feelings from the person they are connecting to. It isn't always a good thing in a Ds sense to be so connected that one loses sight of where one person begins and another ends.

I think perhaps you mean this in a different sense, like the sociopathic sense of not being able to bond with people, I think of it is a different way.. empathic people are on one hand not unusual, but I would say the majority of us are not deeply that way. This is from my own person view of the world and my own experince. I wish I could be more detached at times, it is not necessarily a blessing to be this way.

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:05:47 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Ughz!  i thought i would never see or hear the word empath again as long as i lived.  Welllll, ok, i was hoping.
I lived with a woman for a few years that claimed to be an empath.  She was the most manipulative person i have ever met in my life.  Between her and a few other things going on, it almost destroyed me.  I hope i never meet another one, and if i do, they keep it to themselves. 
As you see, i still have some issues with this........so is it important in a relationship?  all i can say is................not for me.

~smilezz~

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:06:02 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I've read that the ability to be empathic is very important in a bdsm partner (and please - don't anyone tell me the correct spelling of this word is empathetic, it's not - it's empathic). Anyway - I've read it is important for the other person to actually be able to imagine themselves in the other person's shoes, so to speak. Not just during a scene, but maybe during the "rest" of their lives also. So - I am wondering:

1) How true anyone thinks this is, and where it might particualry apply in their own bdsm relationship(s) - current, past, or hoped for future ones. And -

2) How anyone thinks they can tell how empathic a person is, before getting very involved with that person.
Are there subtle "clues" one can see in their behavior? Besides really obvious insensitivity, I mean.

My dad has Ph. D. and a long career in social work, and he once told me that people who aren't raised with much empathy can have a difficult time displaying it, (because they were raised with little of it as a child). He also said there is evidence that points to it perhaps being somewhat of a genetic trait (this is still in "debate", I guess). My dead husband wasn't very empathic and I think, because of the saying that "girls marry men like their fathers", that my dad was always somewhat confused by my choice of a husband (my dad is so unlike my husband was, really), although they got along okay. I didn't find out how un-empathic my husband was for a couple of years, though.

Some people can out on quite a considerate show in the beginning of a relationship, if they think it will do them some good, and then make it disappear when they think they have established a relationship with them. With some of the folks involved in the bdsm 'world' who might be coming from an abusive back-ground, this question concerns me alittle. I am not trying to seem predjuduced, or saying all people who have been abused become abusers (heck, I do volunteer work with abused unmentionables). But, this thought has, on occasion, given me some pause. So - Please don't flame me for simply stating a concern. I do see plenty of people around here online who seem to know how to be empathic (but I'd still appreciate replies to the above questions).

Thanks to anyone who replies. I appreciate the comments.

- Susan


I agree...another great question.

I think empathy is a great trait for anyone to have.  However, it is only one trait of many.  Let's remember, empathy is not the same as sympathy.  Sympathy is " I am sorry for your pain" whereas empathy is "I feel your pain".  Empathy is the ability to, as you said, put yourself in another's shoes.  This can work out very well for a sadist...if he can place himself where his "victim" is, then he can also discern where best to go next  for empathy also does not guarantee benevolence.(Wikipedia)  In someone functioning normally, empathy can often lead to sympathy and that is also a good thing to have happen in a loving sadist.  In the immoral sadist or in a psychopath, they may not only "feel your pain" but also enjoy it AND not care about it...either the amount you are in, how close to danger you are, etc..

Empathy can also be a tool for use in dealing with someone's emotions.  Being aware of what your partner is feeling or thinking without them saying a word can be very helpful not only in a scene but in any interaction between partners, be they dominant and submissive or husband and wife, mother and child, etc..

It can be a difficult thing to balance.  It is good for me to "feel" my patient's pain.  It is also important not to let that empathy for that condition lead to so much sympathy that, rather than help them with care that may be painful in and of itself, I instead only want to comfort them.  With a submissive that I would be involved with, it would be important but at a differing level and for differing reasons.

Edited because I had one sentence that made absolutely no sense on second reading.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/29/2006 5:12:56 PM >

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:06:33 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Very good points, julia. Yes, I was sort of wondering about people who may be lacking the ability to sympathize - and act on that ability. I do know people who can "fake" this at times, and it concerns me (somewhat). But I am working through (hopefully) the "trust issues" I have in counselling.

I've also read of Dominants who make extensive lists of things for their submissive or slave to get done that day, without seemingly having stopped to thiunk if they themselves could ever get that much done in one day. I am wondering how much the ability to emapthize (or not) plays a part in such requests - or any major requests some Dominants make of their submissives or slaves. I know sometimes it's part of someone's kink to enjoy seeing someone struggle with tasks, etc. - but on a 24-7 basis, when not in a scene, I am wondering how this works out for people if they are not able to envision just what is is they are requesting of someone else, and if it is always consciously completely consensual to comply, on the part of the submissive or slave. Thanks so much for the reply.


- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:18:14 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:08:44 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I have always tried to'put myself in someone else's shoes',when dealing with them,and have recently discovered,I am empathic,to the extent that I can pick up feelings from those around me,good and bad,which can become a bit of a bind when you start feeling angry for no apparent reason.But,I for one think the ability to be empathic in a bdsm or other relationship is very important,I do care about others,and care about what I do to others.If there is something I want to do,I always put myself in another's shoes,and imagine how I would feel,before I do what I do,if it does not feel right,then I will not do it.Anothers happiness,welfare and fulfillment is of prime importance.

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:16:45 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It's both, actually.  You know, all you have to do is open a dictionary and look these things up.  You'll save yourself some embarrassment.

As for whether it's genetic: There has to be a universally accepted way of measuring empathy before you can begin to attack that question--and that's a long way off--but I'm convinced there has to be some genetic component.  When I was first looking into the "Why am I so different from everyone else?" question and started reading about empathy, I immediately asked my father about it, because, growing up with him every day, I was convinced that he also had to be an empath, or at least have had some of the same experiences.  Turns out he was...though he had no idea what "empathy" is or that people have tried to study it scientifically.  He just assumed every human being has to have the same basic range of skills that produce the effects we call "empathy," but that only some people bother to pay attention to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I've read that the ability to be empathic is very important in a bdsm partner (and please - don't anyone tell me the correct spelling of this word is empathetic, it's not - it's empathic).


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 8/29/2006 5:18:04 PM >

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:19:21 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		I'm very sensitive to other people and thier moods. I grew up in a house with an alchohol and abusive mother, and that fine tuned it. It was a good way to stay off of her radar, you knew when to lie low when she was in one of her "moods". As far as how it works, it just does.

It also means I have to be very careful who I let be around me, becuase they can feed back to me in either very positive, or very destructive ways. I tend to shy away from very depressed or narcissitic people, due to this.

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:20:51 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, some really in-depth and insightful replies. Thanks to all who have answered, so far.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:28:53 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:28:27 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I can feel what other people feel (more than some people, probably - hard to say, really) - but I am also interested in using it to help the other person (not meddle in their lives, though). I do know people who are empathic - but they use it in a very self-centered way (as smilezz noted). It can be a two-edged sword, in some ways, I think. It can also be put to wonderfully good use.

* I am still wondering a bit about how poeple gauge someone else's empathy level, in general. And how they see this working in their owm relationshp(s).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/29/2006 5:37:46 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:30:59 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		It's a tool.

Tools are to use.

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:35:57 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Homestead: Care to elaborate?

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Homestead)
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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:36:16 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I too have found my new ability useful

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:44:44 PM   
dcndonobi


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		Hello every one

< Message edited by dcndonobi -- 8/29/2006 5:50:51 PM >

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:54:41 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Homestead: Care to elaborate?

- Susan


No one picks up a tool without having an intent for how it will be used.

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 5:56:15 PM   
Kree


Posts: 118
Joined: 6/13/2006
Status: offline 		I dont much care for the word empathy or empathic.  To me that word has connotations of not only, "I feel your pain", but "I live your pain."  I am very aware of those around me and their feelings, issues, and how their world happens to be at any given time.  I do not need to feel or live their pain to offer solace. 

As to "sympathy", I have little use for it.  Thankfully, my partner doesnt need or want sympathy when things arent great.  I dont want sympathy when I face things.  Perhaps we are fortunate that we laugh at problems instead of rolling around in them looking for sympathy.  Understanding is one thing, sympathy to me is quite a negative emotion for both parties.  The one facing issues doesnt need to hear "Oh, I am soooo sorry for your whatever..."  They need suggestions or conversation, not help feeling sorry for themselves. 

I prefer proactive intervention instead of inactive lip service.  

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RE: How important is empathy to you in a bdsm partner? - 8/29/2006 6:10:04 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Susan, another great question! I love your threads!
Well, I agree with the others and you that it can't be "measured" in any real scientific way but we can all certainly recognise it when we see it.
When my brother and I were young my mother told us about a boy in Brazil who was highlighted in Life magazine by the late great photographer Gordon Parks and showed us how poor he was and the pictures in Life magazine.
"Flavio" was his name I believe.
So, my mother says to us; "How would you boys like to help Flavio? "Yeahhhh", we said.
So, we donated our allowance for that week (.50cents each) to Flavio.
My mother sent it somewhere in Brazil.
The point is that if you're taught at a young age to empathise with another human being I think that lesson stays with you.
When I give money to charities I (consiously) think to myself; "I'm a very lucky guy to have what I have and I'm very fortunate to (be able) to help these people, what if I was in that position?"
That's not to say that someone who wasn't raised like that couldn't do it too though.
As for B&D yes I think it would apply here too.
I've bottomed before and it was kind of pleasurable.
Once in a while I would'nt mind being topped by a sub just to see how she is feeling and maybe have her use a new cain on me to feel what she feels.
I know some Doms/Masters in here will probably say to themselves,"Ahhh,...he's not a "real" Dominant" but they can go shit in their hats.
When I spank a sub I want to have a good idea of what she is feeling and how much she can take.
As for other areas or things that she might like to do or how she feels about certain things we'd have to talk about them.
Like someone in here said a few weeks ago;"Doms aren't mindreaders!"
Now, it was 95 degrees here today, I bought one of those large Nestle's Crunch Bars at a drugstore and left it in my car! I just went out and got it and it liquified.
I put it in the fridge to solidify. Can anyone "empathise" with me on that?

(Hmm, Georgia and the Carolinas are under a Hurricane watch!)

(in reply to SusanofO)
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