Sub drop?

Sub drop? (Full Version)

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TitaniumWolf -> Sub drop? (8/31/2006 6:51:33 AM)
Last night My submissive and I had a session. Nothing new was introduced and the play is something we have done before. We're both novices to BDSM, but not ignorant. Although I was watching for signs of distress in My lovely, she showed none that I could see and in fact seemed to enjoy the scene immensely. Afterwards though, something went wrong? and I am not sure exactly what happened. I was giving her aftercare (rubbing on her hands and face, telling her I loved her, how good she was, offering her a drink and so forth). I asked her if she was alright and she said yes in a very quiet voice. I went to rub her cheek ( the lights were off) and she bit Me! she started wiggling in what I perceived to be a sexual manner and I thought maybe she wasn't done scening, I pushed her shoulder down and growled at her. she purred at Me then started making mewling sounds, the whole time rubbing Me. she tried to bite Me agian and I began to wonder if she had up and lost her mind! When she lashed out at Me (still wiggling and rubbing) I knew something was wrong. I quietly asked her what she was doing and all she did was make that mewling sound. Suddenly she started striking out at Me, hitting what ever part of Me she could reach, whimpering the whole time. I grabbed her wrists and held them above her head so she couldn't hit anymore and I started whispering that it was okay, that she was safe, shhh, I love you...but it was like she was gone. she sobbed a couple time, whimpering then she went very quite. By this point I was worried ( had I done this to her??). I couldn't get her to anwser me and she had quit making noise. I lay next to her calling her back to Me, feeling her tremble, frightened that she might be in a state of shock. We hadn't done anything new, and it wasn't really physical.We are both more into mind play, then S&M. I didn't know what else to do but keep telling her it was okay, come back to Me... After what seemed like forever ( don't know how long it actually was) she slowly came back. When she could talk again she said she was sorry for scaring Me. I told her that she didn't do anything wrong, that I love her. I asked her where she went and she said it felt like she fell out of her box and it's too big out there (??) She couldn't elaborate any further and truthfully I didn't want to push her. She says she feels fine now and isn't hesitant about scening again. I on the other hand am worried that this may happen again. I don't ever want to hurt her (in a bad way). Is this something that is fairly common? Any suggestions on how to help her if that happens again? Thank you, TW

MzTlaz -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:07:57 AM)
Sounds like you triggered something. Does she have any history of assault? Sometimes if there is a history of assault, sexual abuse or rape this type of reaction can be triggered. Aftercare can sometimes demand a lot more than a glass of water and a cuddle! You need to talk with her about what happened, get to the root of it as reactions like this don't happen in a vacuum. You need to be aware of a submissive's background as it is pretty common for this kind of thing to happen, in my experience, and if you care about the person, as it seems you do, you will want to be prepared to deal with this situation if it occurs again. It is one of those times when the therapy aspect of play comes to the surface....and, if you're uncovering some abuse or bad experience having your sub see a kink aware therapist may be a good idea.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:13:32 AM)
This doesn't seem to be drop- drop is a depressed state and usually happens farther on after a scene. Likely she either went into a primal headspace or some insecure place where she had to act out her aggression. Since you are still both new, you're going to come across reactions and situations you never expected. Once you've given her a day or two, go back to the questions. Where was she before she went where she went? How did she feel when she was there? Was she thinking or simply reacting? It might be difficult for her to answer, but she needs to communicate as much as she can so you can piece together a pattern of where this came from, what it means and how you should handle it. Since it doesn't seem to have caused any real emotional problems, next time be prepared with ropes and gags to brace her down after the scene.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:15:28 AM)
She had a really shitty childhood and went through some abuse as a kid. not sexual abuse that we're aware of but she has told me there is much of her childhood she doesn't remember and has no desire to. As far as she is concerned she feels like it's over and there's no point in going back. I try to be understanding. I wish I knew what triggered it so we could work through it, but like I said we've played this way before, and often, so theres no telling.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:18:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf She had a really shitty childhood and went through some abuse as a kid. not sexual abuse that we're aware of but she has told me there is much of her childhood she doesn't remember and has no desire to. As far as she is concerned she feels like it's over and there's no point in going back. I try to be understanding. I wish I knew what triggered it so we could work through it, but like I said we've played this way before, and often, so theres no telling. It could be as simply as going to a place where she felt so secure, and finally able to release herself, that she was finally able to express her anger and resentment and frustration. Scenes can be very cathartic for everyone involved. However, if this continues and goes deeper, she may need actual therapy. You need to talk to her about it though, she's the one with the answers (though they may take a lot of time to be revealed)

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:20:31 AM)
LA, What is primal headspace? As for finally feeling secure, and able to get angry, is this a fairly common thing for subs?

Windygal -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:22:48 AM)
Sometimes things from childhood come up, even if one doesn't want to talk about them, or thinks they are over them. I was never phsically abused, but suffered some mental abuse that is still with Me. Windygal

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:26:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf LA, What is primal headspace? Pretty much what you experienced- raw aggressive actions, no thought processing, just ripping, deep, emotions clawing out, like wolves fighting. That may have been her headspace or not. quote: As for finally feeling secure, and able to get angry, is this a fairly common thing for subs? A hesitant yes. Almost all subs enjoy a catharsis scene at some point. Almost all subs enjoy feeling secure by losing control to another and being allowed to fully express themselves. They enjoy having that "rock" in their life in which to beat out their problems and be allowed to not be the "sweet, perfect darling" they work so hard to be at all other times. Whether they express inner deep repressed anger or not depends on the person and their life.

MzTlaz -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:29:48 AM)
Repressed memories can have a way of finding their way to the surface and in my experience I have not only seen it a lot but experienced it myself. As LA said scening can be cathartic but you have to be really careful when there is a background of abuse. I understand the desire to keep bad things of the past in the past but that is really just a conscious choice and our sub-concious mind is far stronger than the consious so if these things need to be dealt with they will find ways of making themselves appear. Therapy may be a good choice in this instance but if she isn't ready to do that then talking about things, getting her to open up to the things that are coming to the surface is really a must....otherwise it is possible for a scene to go really bad and turn her off the Lifestyle completely. I'm an advocate for aftercare specialists, people used to dealing with the emotional issues that come up in play....far too often I see people get themselves into these tough spots and not have a clue what to do about it, and so few want to seek therapy because they don't want to expose their lifestyle choice to a therapist who may tell them they're 'sick'. My mailbox is open if you want to talk about it further.

mistoferin -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:35:31 AM)
I don't think that this is drop as LA already pointed out. One other possibility is that she was simply spacing. Subspace is not always a fun, fluffy serene place....there is bad space too that is sometimes violent and angry.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:38:18 AM)
LA, MzTlaz, Thank you. La I think you're right about where she was, primal headspace. She has written me and told me how wonderful she feels right now. She also said she feels like some progress was made. I don't know if she's ready for therepy, but I am always willing to listen to her.

MzTlaz -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:46:55 AM)
Yes...the 'primal' thing is where we all tend to go right off the bat...the primal reaction of 'fight or flight'. I'm glad she's feeling well, and sees it as progress....it could be that she feels safe with you and in that safety is becoming ready to explore these old issues. Just go slowly is my advice...and talk, talk, talk about things that come up or unexpected reactions she has. There's more to this lifestyle than the obvious kinks.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I don't think that this is drop as LA already pointed out. One other possibility is that she was simply spacing. Subspace is not always a fun, fluffy serene place....there is bad space too that is sometimes violent and angry. And good space that's violent and angry too :) But I agree- we need more messages like this- subspace is not always happy space.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:55:52 AM)
Other then talking is there anything else I could have done? I want to be prepared in case this ever happens again.

mistoferin -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 7:58:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf She has written me and told me how wonderful she feels right now. Be aware that may change. She may very well experience a drop in the next day or so. Hopefully, LA can provide a few links about how best to deal with that.

liljoy -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 8:57:26 AM)
wow i never knew this could happen. i've seen but not experiences primal space during a scene but not afterwards. This is scarey to me lil_joy

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:08:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TitaniumWolf Other then talking is there anything else I could have done? I want to be prepared in case this ever happens again. Well I've already said to keep restraints and gags nearby so you can keep her controlled if it happens again. And no, the talking IS what will prepare you. You need to find out the pattern from HER so that you can try and anticipate it. You might not be able to, it might be issues way beyond your abilities and understanding. But talking and understanding is the only way to know.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:09:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: liljoy wow i never knew this could happen. i've seen but not experiences primal space during a scene but not afterwards. This is scarey to me lil_joy The scene isn't all rainbows and butterflies- there's hand grenades too.

liljoy -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:19:19 AM)
i like the way you put things. No sugar coating just honest out there opinions and advice. i'm glad to know that this can happen lil_joy quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross The scene isn't all rainbows and butterflies- there's hand grenades too.

TitaniumWolf -> RE: Sub drop? (8/31/2006 9:38:26 AM)
You're serious about the restraints? I'd be afraid she'd hurt herself struggling against them.

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