RE: Forced!

RE: Forced! (Full Version)

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subinside -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 8:53:37 AM)
i let a bit of time go by as i thought on this one... it's easy to be forced if you have told the other party that such and such is a fantasy.. and they decide when it will be fulfilled with no forewarning... especially since you may not be specifically in the mood for it when it occurs.

LotusSong -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 9:33:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO LoutusSong: Wow, you're a truly evil Domme...hehe! Like I used to tell my puppy dog, Oscar, when he whined because I only gave him a few spoonfuls of ice cream instead of two bowls like he wanted: "Call the Humane Society now, and ask for asylum. You're definitely being abused. Doggies should not have to even contemplate lives without Mac n' Cheese and Chef-Boy-ar-Dee ravioli ,or cookies. It's unthinkable!" I am not comparing you slave to a pup, but you get my meaning (I hope). But - If I didn't know he didn't like veggies, and gave them to him on the premise he'd eat just about anything (because he's rarely proven me wrong in presuming that), would I be forcing him to eat veggies? Hmmm. - Susan Oh.. he's a pup :) The beauty of it all was that he didn't whine that he didn't want to try it. I noticed his facial expression.. and when I gave the ASSERTION to do it.. he did it without hesitation. All this actually hit me AFTERWARD in realization how the dynamic worked out. You can feel him go into sub mode. This kicks inmy Domme-mode. He didn't do it because he liked to be forced.. he did it because it was for me. And that's the honey of it all :) Now if he came to me saying he would like to be forced fem.. then handed me the outfit he likes to be forced into.. that wouldn't be much of a force.. now would it.. :) This is the difference I'm trying to depict here. All he did was give me his submission years ago... and I get to play with it. :) Edited because I type like sh*t!

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 9:39:34 AM)
Well, I can see what you're getting at. I think we just got what we mean mixed up and I misunderstood what you meant before.I was kind of going on the assumption that anyone who is submissive or a slave has "asked to be forced" at some point, if even just in the beginning of a consensual D/s or M/s relationship. If they didn't want to be forced on some mental level, wouldn't they simply be in a relationship with a vanilla person, instead? I think the whole "asking to be forced" idea permeates the entire D/s or M/s relationship (on the part of the submissive or slave). Depends on how literal one wants to be, but as far as it being a mental state, I sort of considered it something that is always being there. After all, if you're not being dominated, what or who, are you actually submitting to? But you're being more literal and case specific, so I understand what you mean now. - Susan

ownedgirlie -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 9:45:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain I read through this interesting thread and have come down to Susan's post which pretty much works out the answer. (She has done the work for me :) The delayed gratification analogy seems to fit. I just told someone that I could make her do anything and she agreed because it would signify that our D/s relationship is strong. She will do what she doesnt' want to do because the delayed gratification results in a desireable D/s relationship for her. Exactly, exactly, exactly. It isn't that I have this overwhelming desire to do (insert something "awful" here). It's not about that "awful thing." But you would not believe (or maybe you would) how many times I have been able to draw on those "awful" things in times of extreme stress or crisis. Their reminders of my strength and ability to perservere have carried me through. I am a better person because of the effects of my slavery to my Master. Some of us thrive in such a relationship, and are grateful for it.

prpackaged -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 10:06:30 AM)
So forced seems to have a time frame. The beginning discussion of what may be wanted to be forceed and whatever safe guards, words may be needed. Then the actually scene where no amount of avoidance, other than the safeguard, would be allowed while living the act.

curios1 -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 10:52:07 AM)
quote: LotusSong One can only be “forced” if the committing or outcome of an act was not pre-planned, agreed to, or expected. Sorry folks- you cannot be willingly forced I have to agree with you on this LotusSong, it,s something i think every time i see someone asking to be forced. If there asking it stops being forced it becomes role-play/acting.

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 10:58:09 AM)
I wish now that I could stop thinking about this. About as far as I can logically concede, is that someone who is naturally submissive might require less "domination" than someone not so inclined to be dominated, due to them being a more submissive personality in the first place, so they are more willing, therefore, to be dominated, and less force is therefore, perhaps, required. I mean, they want to be dominated, after all. But the question remains, then, what is "dominaton"? Or "submission"? If you're not dominating someone who is submitting to your "power" , even if you've given them that power, to be your Dom/me, where's that "power" going? And why bother with terms like "domination" or "submission" anyway? Why not just be in a vanilla relationship, instead? The entire premise, for a submissive or slave, of D/s, is is "asking to be forced", as far as I can tell, whether it's played out in a literal, forced scenarios or not. I see it as the prevailing underlying premise of the entire fabric of the relationship. And I do mean "asking to be forced" Not "forcing to be forced" (which is illegal, among other things). - Susan

mistoferin -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:10:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO But the question remains, then, what is "dominaton"? Or "submission"? If you're not dominating someone who is submitting to your "power" , even if you've given them that power, to be your Dom/me, where's that "power" going? And why bother with terms like "domination" or "submission" anyway? - Susan I may be way off but I think that what is screwing you up here Susan, is that you are looking at domination and submission as measurable acts instead of as naturally flowing traits that compliment and feed off each other. Dominance is not the "cause" of submission and submission is not the end "product" of dominance.

LotusSong -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:10:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I wish now that I could stop thinking about this. About as far as I can logically concede, is that someone who is naturally submissive might require less "domination" than someone not so inclined to be dominated, due to them being a more submissive personality in the first place, so they are more willing, therefore, to be dominated, and less force is therefore, perhaps, required. But the question remains, then, what is "dominaton"? Or "submission"? If you're not dominating someone who is submitting to your "power" , even if you've given them that power, to be your Dom/me, where's that "power" going? And why bother with terms like "domination" or "submission" anyway? Why not just be in a vanilla relationship. The entire premise of D/s is is "asking to be forced", as far as I can tell, whether it's played out in a literal, forced scenarios or not. It's the underlying premise of the relationship. - Susan Susan.. There is another part to this.. I do allow Slave to "get even".. and later that evening, he did :) And no.. I'm not going to post it..

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:15:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO But the question remains, then, what is "dominaton"? Or "submission"? If you're not dominating someone who is submitting to your "power" , even if you've given them that power, to be your Dom/me, where's that "power" going? And why bother with terms like "domination" or "submission" anyway? - Susan I may be way off but I think that what is screwing you up here Susan, is that you are looking at domination and submission as measurable acts instead of as naturally flowing traits that compliment and feed off each other. Domination is not the "cause" of submission and submission is not the end "product" of domination. Well, perhaps you're right. But I think maybe it is, mistoferin. I think we may just have a philosophical difference. After all, if you're not submitting, are you really being dominated? In a D/s relationship, one person has conceded power to the other. Doesn't mean it plays out in action every minute of the day, but it's an underlying premise of the relationship. If it wasn't, it would in fact, be a vanilla relationship. The deal, as I see it, is this: The Dominant could make a request, or order the submissive to do something at any time, and the submissive would have to do it (within any "limits" already discussed, of course etc). I here the it's "just who I am as person" talk - I hear that. Maybe some people are simply submissive personalities in their own right. I don't doubt for a minute these people exist (because I think I am one of them). But, they aren't a submissive in a relationship in an active way, unless there is someone else who is being Dominant over them. At least I don't think so. I hear people say things like, "my Dominant is always with me, even when he isn't there I feel his power", etc. I get that. But they are still, then, being dominated. Because they are in a D/s relationship. To me, the term submissive connotes submitting to something, or someone, else. It isn't, I don't think, contrary to what some people I've read seem to believe, simply a state of being in its own right. - Susan

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:28:03 AM)
LotusSong: You sound like a nice Domme (truly). He is lucky. - Susan

mistoferin -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:32:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Well, perhaps you're right. But I think maybe it is, mistoferin. I think we may just have a philosophical difference. After all, if you're not submitting, are you really being dominated? In a D/s relationship, one person has conceded power to the other. Doesn't mean it plays out in action every minute of the day, but it's an underlying premise of the relationship. If it wasn't, it would in fact, be a vanilla relationship. The deal, as I see it, is this: The Domiant could make a request, or order the submissive to do something at any time, and the submissive would have to do it. I here it's "just who I am as person" talk - I hear that. Maybe some people are simply submissive personalities in thier own right. I don't doubt for a minute these people exist (because I think I am one of them). But, they aren't a submissive in a relationship in an active way, unless there is someone else who is being Dominant over them. At least I don't think so. I hear people say things like, "my Dominant is always with me, even when he isn't there I feel his power", etc. I get that. But they are still, then, being dominated. Because they are in a D/s relationship. I don't understand what you mean by I am not submitting. If I am in submission to someone...I am submitting. That person has no real need to run around actively dominating and exercising his dominance to gain that submission....he already has it. It shouldn't have to be active work every minute of every day...it should just be there naturally. I don't need constant "you're under my thumb" reminders in order to submit....it is what the entire dynamic is comprised of.

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:42:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Well, perhaps you're right. But I think maybe it is, mistoferin. I think we may just have a philosophical difference. After all, if you're not submitting, are you really being dominated? In a D/s relationship, one person has conceded power to the other. Doesn't mean it plays out in action every minute of the day, but it's an underlying premise of the relationship. If it wasn't, it would in fact, be a vanilla relationship. The deal, as I see it, is this: The Domiant could make a request, or order the submissive to do something at any time, and the submissive would have to do it. I here it's "just who I am as person" talk - I hear that. Maybe some people are simply submissive personalities in thier own right. I don't doubt for a minute these people exist (because I think I am one of them). But, they aren't a submissive in a relationship in an active way, unless there is someone else who is being Dominant over them. At least I don't think so. I hear people say things like, "my Dominant is always with me, even when he isn't there I feel his power", etc. I get that. But they are still, then, being dominated. Because they are in a D/s relationship. I don't understand what you mean by I am not submitting. If I am in submission to someone...I am submitting. That person has no real need to run around actively dominating and exercising his dominance to gain that submission....he already has it. It shouldn't have to be active work every minute of every day...it should just be there naturally. I don't need constant "you're under my thumb" reminders in order to submit....it is what the entire dynamic is comprised of. Well, I think I see what you may mean, (and I didn't mean you, in particular) But - at some point, the way I see things, you agreed to not make certain (or any) decisions, for instance, and let somone else take that responsibility. Otherwise, it would be a vanilla relationship, and you would not be, in fact, submitting to anyone. So, at some point, you "asked to be forced". *Even if he isn't forcing you every single minute of the day, it's because you've already agreed to submit, and it therefore simply isn't necessary. Does that fact it's not mean you're not a submissive? Of course not. In fact, if you had not "agreed to be forced" initially, he'd have to spend a lot more time "forcing" you. But to me, the whole word submit implies someone else is indeed a Dominant. And dominant implies force, whether it is active, and in-your-face, or subtle, mental, agreed-upon-before-hand at the outset of a relationship force. A submissive is submitting to something, or someone. Otherwise why use the term? What are you submitting to if you're not a submissive? His good looks? Maybe power would be a better term to use (but it was not the term used by the OP, so I've avoided it).

mistoferin -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:43:26 AM)
Let me see if I can make this simpler. I am in a relationship with a Dominant. He tells me that he likes his home neatly kept. As his submissive wanting to please him...I do it. He doesn't need to come to me each time the floor needs to be cleaned, grab me by my hair and say "I am the Dominant...clean this floor". He tells me that he likes blow jobs when he comes home from work. When he walks in I give him a blow job. He doesn't have to grab me by my hair and force me to my knees in a display of his Dominance. A guy knocks at the door one afternoon selling siding. My instant response is to tell him that I will have the man of the house contact him in regards to it. He doesn't have to tell me that he doesn't want me to make large home repair decisions on my own because he is the Dominant. A thousand million examples....all the same....none requiring active force.

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:47:10 AM)
Well apparently, we have a philosophical difference. I simply don't know how to explain my position any further. I did try my best, though. I really did. I've also responded as best I can to what you just said above. I already said (twice) that it is what the entire fabric of a D/s relationship is comprised of. But - I did appreciate talking about it with you, for a time. [:)] - Susan

popeye1250 -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:55:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO LoutusSong: Wow, you're a truly evil Domme...hehe! Like I used to tell my puppy dog, Oscar, when he whined because I only gave him a few spoonfuls of ice cream instead of two bowls like he wanted: "Call the Humane Society now, and ask for asylum. You're definitely being abused. Doggies should not have to even contemplate lives without Mac n' Cheese and Chef-Boy-ar-Dee ravioli ,or cookies. It's unthinkable!" I am not comparing you slave to a pup, but you get my meaning (I hope). But - If I didn't know he didn't like veggies, and gave them to him on the premise he'd eat just about anything (because he's rarely proven me wrong in presuming that), would I be forcing him to eat veggies? Hmmm. - Susan Susan, you're giving those dogs CHEF BOY-AR-DEE RAVIOLIS, macaroni and cheese and COOKIES!!!??? You're going to kill those fuckin mutts! I hope you know Canine CPR! lol Sheesh! I can just imagine their colesterol levels!!!

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 11:58:03 AM)
popeye: My Beagle is seriously overweight. Oops. [:D] - Susan

KnightofMists -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 1:22:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross It's not that hard really. You ask someone to force you into it. They either are able to force you into it or not. When I get into a force play scene, you better believe I don't give an inch willingly. But it's still what YOU want to have happen. It's a case of good acting. The desire to be forced! for the sake of being forced is entirely different than desiring to be forced to do X. The first expects to be forced... but forced to do whatever... the Top desires ... in not choosing what will be forced upon them they only can consent to be forced. The second expects to be forced to do X... but in choosing to do X they already negate that they can be forced to do it. Some force plays fail miserable because the Top chooses acts that in truth the bottom wants to do. It's when the Top brings to the table acts that the bottom doesn't want to do or have done that you feel the real joy of "Force Play" or "Primal Play" as I like to call it. However, as kyra stated once... I very much enjoy taking an act that my bottoms enjoy and using it to such a level that they actually hate me doing it. Now that is fun. Most Top's can't push a bottom to "Forced Play" or "Primal Play"... Most Tops are not Sadists.... and to me personally... to be in a state of Forced Play... the Top must have a intense Sadistic desire within them

KnightofMists -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 1:30:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong (I know the answer to this but just presenting the topic for discussion) How can you say you want to be "forced" to do a certain activity... I mean, if you are ASKING for it.... who ya trying to kid? Another thought to add.... I don't play with Stop words.. in other words... those who I play with don't dictate when play will stop.... I do A play I do from time to time is a play to red. In essense... I give the bottom a trigger to say or do when they don't want anymore.... Now i will pick up a paddle or cane or flogger or whatever... sometimes it's something they like... sometimes it is not. Either way...I start to hit them at a slow stead pace. sooner or later (usually later with the individuals I play with) they use the trigger. Now as I said... they don't decide if play stops I do. I will keep hitting them. with each hit... it pulls them further from their own consent to the item I used (particular fun when it's something they enjoy) and further into the consent of being forced to endure what I desire. It is at this point they are consenting to be forced to endure. This is a more methodical style of force play. but a force play none the less.

SusanofO -> RE: Forced! (9/3/2006 2:30:59 PM)
KOM: I am so glad you wrote in. I feel you really clarified this more, in general, a Lot. - Susan

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