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D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:00:29 AM

Bedlam2Night

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/8/2004
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I have a theory, albeit not scientific. So please don't criticize me for thinking out loud.

It has been my experience in this vast world of D/s that "most" of us in it have some sort of sexual abuse in our childhood.

For instance, my past includes an early childhood friend that would spank me, pants down, with a frat paddle. Now before you say "oh come on", most psychologists will confirm that a perpetrator need not be an adult and can but as little as 2 or 3 years older than the victim. And no, I don't count myself a victim. I would love to thank her for planting that seed within me. And yes, I realize abuse is not to be viewed as a glorious gift. I would never be so glib. I was just lucky.

That said, my question is: do you have any sexual abuse in your history and do you think that may be a contributing reason as to why you are involved in D/s now as an adult?

Post #: 1

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:23:52 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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Yes, I am a childhood abuse survivor -- sexual and emotional abuse.

I think may have helped me be more willing to explore non-traditional sex because frankly if what I grew up with was traditional, it sucked! But as for my personality, I was never a passive or a submissive person. I probably could have been very happy with only an egalarian vanilla life with some spice but 'm not.

How much is nature and how much is nurture or anti-nurture isn't knowable in my opinion. I just am myself.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 2

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:29:12 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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There's always the question of whether people in ds actually experience sexual abuse more than other social groups OR whether they are just more willing to talk about it as this is an alternate lifestyle social group, OR whether certain orientations somehow lead to people being vulnerable and more likely to experience abuse even at a very young age. Until we really have a clear answer to that, we really can't discuss a correllation or causation with much certainty.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299233/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299318
BDSM and Abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475351/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475351
Did childhood abuse cause you to be a dominant?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_475077/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#475077
Are you submissive because of abuse?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_299539/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#299539
Do past issues make bdsm easier?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281017/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#281017
Going from abuse to conscious slavery?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_204258/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#204258
bdsm and abuse survivors

http://www.collarchat.com/m_124139/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#124139
sub role and abuse

http://www.collarchat.com/m_78189/mpage_1/key_abuse/tm.htm#78189
when I was a child...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_522031/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#522032
Can you be predisposed to bdsm?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499963/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#499979
nature or nurture?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_307130/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#307130
Do you feel being a dom/me is innate or can be learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_461558/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#461558
hard-wired, why why why!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_143698/mpage_1/key_born%252Craised/tm.htm#143698
nature versus nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_468650/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#468650
nature vs nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_35901/mpage_1/key_learned%252Cborn/tm.htm#35901
born or learned, how we become dom?

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 9/1/2006 11:30:19 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 3

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:42:50 AM

midnyt

Posts: 40
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline

i too am a surviver of what i called hell house. servere physical, mental, and sexual abuse. however i dont hold it against my parents. their actions molded my future i am the woman i am today becouse of their adult tantrums. i can look in the mirror in the morning and say i am so proud of you. im not sure tho that it has played part of me being submissive. i never looked at it that way. ~midnyt~

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 4

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:49:33 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I have had no abuse in my history, sexual or otherwise. I grew up in a rather Leave it to Beaver household. Pretty normal, supportive, etc. I have no idea why I am the way I am but I think it's more just something that happened and then I decided to explore it more and hone my skills. In my opinion, this microcosm of community is pretty similar to others. You will have people who are [insert category here] just as with any other sector. I would not say there's a majority since the majority of people I know r/t have had no abuse either. But I do know several people who were abused. Most of them don't count it as the contributing factor in why they are here. I'm sure some do, though. I don't think the question can really be answered with any certainty by anyone as a whole but you'll get varying opinions from individuals.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 5

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 11:55:42 AM

Bedlam2Night

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline

Thank you Lucky. But the question was: do you have any sexual abuse in YOUR history and do you think that may be a contributing reason as to why YOU are involved in D/s now as an adult?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 6

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 12:11:29 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I see the category, I look down. OK, I don't belong here, but I'll answer anyway.

I personally have not had personal history issues of the sort.

But on behalf of the partners I have been with in the past decade-and-a-half, I would say that far more than half of them have had some sort of 'abuse' in their past, either childhood/teenage traumas or rape slightly later in life.

I'm not a licensed counselor, but I do know enough about human nature (especially given the type of world I inhabit) to find the odds of this more than 'natural'. I can't speculate how exactly they got 'here', but each one in their way found that WIITWD would give them safe harbor to deal with their pasts.

Again, I'm not a counselor or doctor, but I do have sufficient understanding and compassion to enable them to explore their pasts through me in a manner that they feel is helpful.

I don't place personal ads that says anything of the sort such as 'Rescuer seeking damsel'. It simply happens that way. (Personally, if it didn't happen again, that would be just fine. But I don't back off from it.)

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 7

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 12:17:00 PM

DarkSideOfThMoon

Posts: 117
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

I've had no abuse, and a happy and stable child hood. It took me about a year, during which time I found D/s online, to come to terms with the feelings that had me labling myself a freak. I don't really understand how abuse, real abuse, would lead osmeone to BDSM... I think if I had an experience like that I would never want to experience anything like it, ever ever again..

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 8

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 12:44:11 PM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

No experience of sexual abuse here. The thread's that LA gave links to have posts from others who have discussed similar questions to yours and will possibly give you some of the information you are asking.

I do some reading about relational frame theory which explores the unparalleled ability that humans have to be able to come up with relations between two seemingly unconnected things. Ask someone to find a connection between a frog and a shop assistant and they will eventually come up with something eg both can jump out of nowhere to scare you (ok it's late and it took me ages to come up with that connection!). It's difficult to discuss cause and effect in regards to sexual abuse and bdsm as there are so many other variables.

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 9

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 1:14:20 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bedlam2Night
Thank you Lucky. But the question was: do you have any sexual abuse in YOUR history and do you think that may be a contributing reason as to why YOU are involved in D/s now as an adult?

There is absolutely no sexual abuse in my history. My dominance is a natural state of being. I have always been of an alpha personality (even as a young child) & as I matured I found that I thrive when I am the alpha/dominant in my personal relationships.

It is of my belief that one's true nature of dominance or submissiveness is a natural state of being & not a result of abuse nor a learned role. I have found that when a person cloaks themselves into a state of being that is a reaction/defense to a negative experience that they will inevitably fail to maintain this shield & their true nature will surface to claim it's rightful place. It has also been of my experience that when a person claims a role for themself rather than explore themselves that they are often unable to live up to a role they picked for themself. Maybe in time they will discover they are indeed dominant or submissive (or neither)... but this will only truly reveal itself when the individual has dealt with any past issues & has arrived to a place in life where security, confidence & consistency is a ruling factor & they have taken a deep look inward (retrospection/ introspection).

A wolf is still a wolf in sheep's clothing... the same can be said of the sheep wearing a wolf's hide.

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MstrssPassion

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RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 1:24:22 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

There's always the question of whether people in ds actually experience sexual abuse more than other social groups OR whether they are just more willing to talk about it as this is an alternate lifestyle social group, OR whether certain orientations somehow lead to people being vulnerable and more likely to experience abuse even at a very young age. Until we really have a clear answer to that, we really can't discuss a correllation or causation with much certainty.

This is very true.

I do know that people who have had abusive pasts do not all become involved in BDSM or sex of any type. Those that do, vary widely in what they like and what they do. Just like in the rest of the population.

The big difference I notice is that I tend to make friends with survivors and that students are more comfortable talking to me about things that happened to them (be it 20 years ago or last night). Even though I have never told them perhaps I give off a "I'll understand vibe"?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 11

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 8:25:13 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Nope, no abuse. Didn't wet the bed, torture animals or light fires either. It is innate though......it's just part of who I am. There have been things I've picked up from simple enlightenment that needed absolutely NO guidance.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 12

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 9:25:05 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bedlam2Night

do you have any sexual abuse in your history

No

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 13

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 9:30:19 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

No sexual abuse for me. There was a rape, but that was well after I was admittedly dominant, so that didnt influence anything. My dominance is a natural part of my personality, has been since before I knew what it was.

DV

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I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

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If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 9:38:36 PM

addisonclarkgirl

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Joined: 7/16/2006
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i wasn't abused, but very much loved by my family. That made me want to gain approval even more, to be a good girl growing up, to follow rules, to stay out of trouble, to please my parents. i think that has a LOT to do with why i'm sub. So, in a way, it was the complete opposite of abuse.

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RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/1/2006 10:27:37 PM

subfever

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Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

my question is: do you have any sexual abuse in your history ?

Nope. Not one iota...

But... I grew up in a very poor family. In fact, we were so poor, that if I didn't wake up with a hard-on, I had nothing to play with all day.

Could that have anything to do with my profound attraction to D/s? ...

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 16

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/2/2006 12:21:05 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I'd say I survived some emotional abuse. Do I think that has any bearing on my orientation? No.

I -do- think that being the child of 2 alchoholics (one in recovery, one not) -did- have some effect on me, as it ingrained the habit of thinking it was my job to take care of people.

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~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/2/2006 8:52:12 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

I have had no abuse in my childhood or adulthood and had a happy family life. My interest in bondage began when I was around 7 years old, so I feel I'm one of those people that has BDSM hard-wired in my brian.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to Bedlam2Night)

Post #: 18

RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/2/2006 12:24:59 PM

DivaDuchess

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Joined: 8/17/2006
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D/s is just me being me ... I kinda liked this question. I have had both those that were survivors and those that were not. The only difference was ... NOTHING. It was simply who they were. Just as I have no past that leads me to be Dominant, I just am. But then ... I'm a Type A personality, oldest daughter, IQ geek with a ... paddle *lol*

_____________________________

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Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

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RE: D/s: innate or learned? - 9/2/2006 7:44:13 PM

amativedame

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Joined: 9/23/2005
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The kind of answer depends on who you talk to and what you believe (even from a psychological standpoint.) Some psychology theories would say its possible innate, while others say all behavior is learned (and/or is actively contributed.)

In the end I doubt its ever something we will really have an answer for since what may be innate can easily be affected by the past... and what was learned can easily be changed by sheer will. Personally I think we pull a lot of things from our past and what we saw in the realtionships of the people around us. What we chose to do with that is up to us.

I don't come from a great home (in fact my whole childhood was an emotional hell.) This lifesytle isn't an after effect of that, anymore than the fact that its part of my future and thats part of my past.

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Always remember that great love and great achievements both involve great risk.

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