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RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 3:53:36 PM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Yes, bearlee, there are success stories.  Do not get Me wrong...but you have to bear in mind that these are in the extreme minority.  You can tell this after reading all the stories on this board.  Horror story after horror story, scam after scam.  R/T is definitely the way to go, and I am glad you are out and about in the scene (and of course wish you the best of luck).

You do not build much trust on the internet.  You can not, that is as simple as it gets.  You have to really get to know the person, and that happens after many face to face meetings.  You are on the right path for sure.  You should not be second guessing yourself.  You are allowing some perverted jackass to make you second guess your better judgement and to Me that does not make any sense.  You are doing the right thing.  It feels comfortable to you.  You are in your zone.  A true Dom would respect that, but obviously the ones you have found do not.  I say keep looking.  There are plenty of them out there that do not hungrily look at you with a hard on.  You can bet that another one is right around the corner, and hopefully that one will respect your boundaries... Just think.. If this Dom can not respect your boundaries in regards to improper conversations so he can pull his pud, what kind of respect do you expect to get if you ever ended up together? 

EDIT:  I just read your journal, and in it you said that he did not expect cyber.  You did not give it to him obviously, or you would not be posting here, and he promptly disappeared...  I do not think it takes much to interpret the obvious there.  He DID in fact want cyber.  He lied to you.  You did not give it to him, so he ran to someone else who would.  So I ask you.  Why this thread?  The answer is obvious.  This is not a case of letting go in My opinion.  This is a case of not giving in to a pervert... And why should you?  You definitely did the right thing.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 9/2/2006 3:57:51 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 4:16:04 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

I would just like to know HOW does it work when it works?  HOW do you 'let go' and build trust...especially online and before you actually meet?
 
Friendship - Sex or desires didnt enter the relationship until the friendship was firmly formed.
There was no active searching, and there wasn't an expectation.  It evolved naturally.  And I am still learning to let go.  It doesn't stop.  Online and then realtime.  I am learning from the relationship all the time, and visa versa.  The letting go doesn't just happen - at least it hasn't for me.  It is something I am learning to do gradually... like any limit.
 
I am just reading this back - and the one thing I keep seeing is the expectation.  Many people I have spoken to or met always expected something.  There was always that set agenda.  But with him, he treated me as an equal and a person and never claimed any kind of 'plan' - and I see that alot of the time.  Profile full of 'this is what I am and I wont change' or ' this is what I want' or ' this is what I expect' or ' this is what I am looking for'.  We just accepted each other for what we were and then the submission and the domination came naturally.  It wasn't planned or expected, it was a natural progression?  Not sure if that makes much sense.  The 'letting go' just happened.
 
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 4:56:07 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		mmmmmmm… Okay; I ‘discovered’ BDSM …et al, some three years ago.  I HAVE met some good friends here…online even; and, we quickly moved to real-time.  And they are friends YET.   What I do NOT understand are the idiots who come here and ‘play’ at it.  Yanno?  Telling me it is ME who has a problem with honesty online…while they insist on soft-porn in the meantime.  Grrrrr…now ya know why some of us insist on meeting sooner than later!
 
<sigh>
 
Okay, a new friend recently told me:
 
 “I have had people open up to me very quickly.  Start to submit very quickly.  Move in very quickly.  I won't say start to lose perspective, but I have had my share of emotional 'misfits' come my way.  It plays on one's ego at first, then eventually just becomes draining.” 
 
Again, I couldn’t agree more…even from a submissive’s slant;  we get a LOT of crap, too, yanno!  I just wanna stay REAL.
 
I wanna know how to let go and stay real…online; till we meet! 
 
Again…I see ‘online’ as ONE avenue of keeping lines of communication open (meeting people).  I do not suppose every person who befriends me (or I them) a lover or partner; but a friend.  What happens after that is all dependent on how THAT relationship develops, is it not?
 
bear

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 6:01:02 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		I've had to boot a few emotional misfits in my time as well Bearlee.

I take the time to see who they really are now, not just who they pretend to be.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 6:08:58 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

mmmmmmm… Okay; I ‘discovered’ BDSM …et al, some three years ago.  I HAVE met some good friends here…online even; and, we quickly moved to real-time.  And they are friends YET.   What I do NOT understand are the idiots who come here and ‘play’ at it.  Yanno?  Telling me it is ME who has a problem with honesty online…while they insist on soft-porn in the meantime.  Grrrrr…now ya know why some of us insist on meeting sooner than later!
 
<sigh>
bear

I know... its really annoying when people tell you its you that have the problem.  But you know deep down it isnt you.  Its not about honesty in reality.  Its about connecting and learning about someone and gaining trust.  People throw the old, honesty coin, into the discussion to try and cause guilt.  As soon as that comes up - I know that the persons not what I am interested in knowing.  Honesty is so rare, its mistaken for so many other things.  Integrity is a much more stunning gem and self knowledge and evolution is priceless.  Honesty is subjective and most people who claim to be it, are lying to themselves anyway.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 6:35:36 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I never had a problem with a dom pushing. What I used as a touchstone was their response when I said they're pushing too far and too fast. The ones that got huffy or refused to back off I said goodbye to. The one who apologized and slowed down is the one I'm collared to.

Just consider it helpful that they're showing their true colors this early, before you wasted any more time on them.

However if you could early on mention that you really dislike men who do this, when you haven't even laid eyes on each other, that might stop one or two from doing so.

(in reply to mstrjx)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 7:27:47 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

I’m still curious, though, as to how folks, in real-time D/s or M/s relationships began their relationships; especially if they DID meet…online?

Did you have a hard time letting go ...and trusting?

bear


Master and I met online, we have been living together for 2 1/2 years now. We met on literotica, which I joined a few months after He did. We became friends on the forums there, an Aussie thread in particular (although I am a New Zealander they didn't hold it against me ). I didn't even know He was a Dom until we started PMing and chatting on Yahoo

I expressed curiosity about being a sub and He sent me a checklist - I was very sexually inexperienced at that time but have always had a submissive nature. In the months before we met in r/l I read the links He sent me plus others I searched out myself. When we chatted I called Him Master and He called me His slut. We did a little bit of playing on the phone a couple of times, just for me to hear His voice and get some "feel" for D/s. However Master prefers real time and we waited until we met before any real scening took place.

We spent 6 months getting to know each other before my flight to Australia, although our friendship on the forums had lasted a few months prior to that - altogether about a year. I had confided in Him about many things by then, including the emotional abuse by my ex husband, the relationship with a married man that hurt me deeply, my bisexuality which at that time had not even begun to be explored, along with my inexperience at so many things. We had both been hurt in the past so it wasn't a question of just me letting go and trusting, He had to as well.

Over the 2 1/2 years we have become so close.....He literally trusts me with His life, as His health is not good. I am still learning to trust Him, not so much physically as emotionally - over 20 years of being married to an emotional abuser has scarred me, but I am learning

We love each other very much and are getting married in 3 months.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 8:15:00 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		WOW... thanks Rayne. 
 
 
...and congratulations!!!

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 8:22:52 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I absolutely will NOT discuss my sexual past, likes, dislikes, turn offs, turn ons or in detail experiences with anyone online. They try...and they push....and every attempt is met with the exact same response...."I'm sorry but I do not discuss those things online". Period.


I wont go that far.

What I will sometimes do is tell stories.  Perhaps the woman on the other hand is masturbating, or perhaps she is not.  They tell me I am good, I am looking at the clock thinking I have to get up in X hours to go to work.

I certainly am not masturbating; nothing turns me off more than the plastic in a keyboard or a telephone.

Cyber or phone doesnt do anything for me.  I am a tactile person.  I need to feel them physically to be attracted, even if this is nothing more than a leg draped across mine watching a movie.

But as usual, this is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 9/2/2006 8:25:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 8:37:08 PM   
angielouwhos


Posts: 87
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		Although I have not had a lot of online "looking" experience, I think you have hit the nail on the head of an issue I struggle with. Emails and conversations (chat and even on the phone) often become way to direct to quickly. My slave nature goes along with it too perhaps so I think I am part of the problem too, so I am not pointing any fingers.

I too can talk about the sex and the scenes and all of that, I mean I do on this forum but I start to feel really strange when it is the sole focus of the budding friendship. It's a much better thing for me if I get to know the person first or maybe it's just better if it is not all we talk about.

Very thought provoking post.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Letting go...online - 9/2/2006 8:51:31 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		The boy and I met online. We hada bit of a trust issue when we first met.  Building trust over a long distance relationship is always difficult. He has issues trusting people, mainly women, anyway, becasue of his own past.
Once we met face to face and talked, it all fell into place. All of the foundation we set in the 4 months we were talking (online and on the phone) became a reality.  Unfortuantely until the first meeting, no matter how well things seem to be going online or on the phone, theres no telling what actual chemistry there might be. Thankfully, my boy and I had the same chemistry in person as we did online.

But more on the topic, we discussed likes, dislikes and experience ratehr extensively. However that only started AFTER we knew we were interested in moving things to the next level. when it was just idle chat, we didnt do much more than tease one another with what wed like to do with one another.

Just another opinion for the colection.
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to angielouwhos)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 4:00:00 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Yup, I agree whole-heartedly, agirl... but still;
 
HOW does one 'let go' and trust online?  Does it take weeks and months?  Does on totally forget she is online and take each new post as it comes?  Does one totally forget all common sense (or sorry). 
 
Still, I AM serious here...HOW have you, to whom this (online)has been successful...make it work before even meeting? 
 
Dang, I'm getting tired of feeling like "...if we click' is some sort of attack!  Am I being impossible or realistic, here?
 
bearlee


Hello Bearlee,

I met my Master online many moons ago, but not as a *potential* anything. There was no agenda........we became friends.  I liked him very much as a man. The trust wasn't gained online, only so far that I trusted enough to meet up. I didn't have to *let go* online, it wasn't a requirement. I was just me and he was just him. He didn't expect or ask me to. As dark said, there was a natural progression that built over time.

I think that you have a different outlook when you're chatting to a potential friend than if you're chatting with a potential Master.

Regards, agirl

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 4:54:44 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Bearlee, first off, the internet is a giant sifter that can be a valuable tool. I can find those who interest me quickly and eliminate those who don’t interest me or respond to my message. It helps me find sentient folks.  Secondly, be careful when you generalize that men want cyber while women don’t. Many women desire pornographic cyber just as much as men do.

I learned that in my years I was into online things. I also learned cyber can be exciting and beautiful. My goal was always real time meetings, but the cyber in itself was poetic with the right person.

As someone who posts a good bit, I sometimes have mail from subs who want to know more about something, say hi or whatever. I, positively, understand the context of their polite notes and would never attempt to enter into a cyber thing with them unless they expressed the willingness in some way and I wanted to which is not the case these days. I will occasionally discuss techniques and interests, but they understand that neither of us is pushing for more. So my message is to not be rigid about lines not to be crossed when you meet someone online.

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 9/3/2006 4:58:43 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 5:50:42 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Bearlee, all I can say here, is situations alter cases. All my current relationships started off as on-line meeting. Shifted and I met on-line and after e-mailing a few times we had a real date. We continued to chat and e-mail each other and after two more face to face meetings, I moved her in and we couldn't be happier. That was several years go, we are married Dominants and we have so much in common it's scary. I admit, I figured this was a fluke. We were always looking for someone who would fit in wih the both of us. We had some "almost fits" and have made some great friends along the way. Skipping past some failed attempts and fast forward a bit, having been burned a few times over a period of time after Shifted and I got together however, while we were looking for an "addition", I didn't know if I could trust someone I met on the net again. As fate would have it however, twice and I met on-line as well. It started out rough, with my guard up so high that I accused her of being a computer program that was just trying to get me to go to another site. She was defensive and downright pissed. Thinking back on it, I swear pissing her off was the best thing I could have done. We talked on the phone, we chatted and e-mailed back and forth, we got into some interesting details, but never any cyber (I don't go there). We had nilla conversations and I guess what you would consider possible wanker talk, but we were trying to figure out if it was a good fit and the face to face wasn't a possibility due to the distance. In a nutshell, we did let go and there were no secrets. Two weeks after this all started...twice was on a plane heading our way. That was nearly 8 months ago and certainly we had some rough edges to hone down along the way, but the groundwork we laid on-line was essential to figuring out if this was a good fit in the first place. It is, there is no doubt about that. Nobody cybered, but no secrets were kept. How soon is too soon?...only you can answer that question..like I said; situations alter cases. We are currently talking to a possible "another" and it is following the same path, perhaps a bit slower since we have had our fair share of disappointments, but it is beginning to move to that stage where you have to drop your guard in order to get to know the person. Does it have to be intimate conversation..not always, but not never either. I want to have as much information about that person as I can, to see if I can either scare them off, or make them show up on the front porch. Is there a possibility of getting burned. Certainly..but there is also that possibility of it going surprisingly well.....only you can decide where you are at and what walls you allow yourself to drop.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:20:28 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
I would just like to know HOW does it work when it works?  HOW do you 'let go' and build trust...especially online and before you actually meet?


The answer is: you don't.  Not if you're smart, anyway.  What you do online is talk and do your best to get to know someone.  I personally give it a lot of time in order to watch and see if they say anything contradictory.  But even if they appear to check out, you can never tell certain things for sure without a face-to-face meeting.  Actually, a long-term real life situation is best, to be absolutely sure.  Some people are masters of deception.  Trust your gut.
 
zuma

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:22:41 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

Hello Bearlee,

I met my Master online many moons ago, but not as a *potential* anything. There was no agenda........we became friends.  I liked him very much as a man. The trust wasn't gained online, only so far that I trusted enough to meet up. I didn't have to *let go* online, it wasn't a requirement. I was just me and he was just him. He didn't expect or ask me to. As dark said, there was a natural progression that built over time.

I think that you have a different outlook when you're chatting to a potential friend than if you're chatting with a potential Master.

Regards, agirl

 
Just nods and agrees.
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:34:53 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		SirKenin,  thank you for you post(s).  I honestly do realize it takes some time to build trust…it just seems to me that, as adults here, we should be able to communicate honestly here and have been confused by meeting seemingly nice people who either suddenly disappear or seem mostly interested in cyber. 
 
When I say ‘let go’, I didn’t mean to give in and start cybering (necessarily), what I meant is he may have a valid point when he grouses at my regularly saying “…if all proves well…” and “…if we click…”.  Perhaps it is MY method of slowing things down…or perhaps it is my method of showing distrust.  I would prefer to trust people.  My questions are about letting go and just trusting (as far as chatting online, I mean).
 
Here I have been talking mostly about an amalgam of people, not a single person.  The journal entry you read was with regard to yet another…a month or so ago.  He’s another who just up and disappeared after what I thought was a charming week of daily communications.
 
Celeste, great point about ‘pushing too hard’.  And actually, I have mentioned to men about others who push too hard…course what happens is I get told “I am not so-and-so”.  Perhaps it is my delivery!  I should say I dislike the activity and not bring specific instances into the conversation.  Thank you…
 
angie, I agree, we do get awful direct online; and VERY quickly.  Perhaps that’s part of my problem.  While, on one hand I like that sort of directness and CAN discuss anything, it can lead to more….sensuous talk…which I (sometimes) I find uncomfortable.  Perhaps that too, that confusion with what is ‘okay’ is what sends mixed messages (to BOTH of us!)
 
agirl…while I AM interested in finding a Dom/Master…I do not automatically assume every guy I talk to will become that person.  I have met many folks here and real-time who, knowing I’m a single submissive, obviously came up to me with that in mind…but we didn’t click that way and became good friends instead of entering a D/s or M/s relationship.  Friends are always good…
 
Ex, did I make the generalization men want cyber and women don’t?  If I gave that impression, it was in error.  I don’t even believe that; I’ve seen enough profiles and female nics here to know otherwise!  LOL 
 
Also…perhaps I should fess-up and say, it is not that I WILL NOT cyber; I have and have enjoyed it.  But gee…not with a perfect stranger!  …well, not me, anyway. 
 
Perhaps the whole purpose of this ‘rant’ has been just a way to express my frustration with trying to figure out HOW to let go and just not take things so personally online.  I KNOW I don’t have to cyber…and I know I will meet jerks; none of that bothers me. 
 
What I’m having trouble with is HOW to stay ‘real’ online (real = honestly building a realtionship, not allowing someone to 'jump' into one) …and perhaps that just ain’t gonna happen!  Yup; ya just gotta meet the people!
 
In the meantime…I will also confess that a man with whom I’m exchanging mail online (and have quoted here a couple times), has NOT gone anywhere.  I directed him to this thread and apparently he got a big dose of shock to see his words ‘in public’.  I figured it was no big deal, in that I am quite comfortable chatting here and never gave his name.  He'd not been to the boards before and felt betrayed and more than a little angry and for that I am very sorry.  (see…I get myself in trouble online every which way!!!)
 
I will give the guy credit though, he has not gone anywhere…shock, shock.  Pissed as he is; he’s TELLING me that…and stays in communication with me.  Perhaps that says leagues.
 
And…perhaps I should quit airing my laundry in public!  In my defense, though…I will say (again) I have been talking in generalizations about several many men…and more than anything else just thinking out loud and trying to figure out HOW communication works online. 
 
I’ll stop now; thank you all for your help!
bearlee

edited cuz I can't spell fer chit!

< Message edited by Bearlee -- 9/3/2006 6:38:43 AM >

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:36:09 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

As someone who posts a good bit, I sometimes have mail from subs who want to know more about something, say hi or whatever.


C'mon, Steel.  Wave to your fans.  It's OK.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:49:47 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		Scooter, Sir, Thank you SO much for that post!  Ya know, I have said for years I’m a ‘black & white kinda girl’; I DO have trouble with gray!   I’m beginning to think this is affecting my communication skills online.  I figure if we piss each other off; it’s done.  Well, that is usually what happens anyway; they disappear!  So, I’ve decided it is my fault; that I just don’t let those walls down fast enough.
 
Your story sounds much like mine have been…’cept I’ve not yet met and enjoyed a match.  That you have, over time, kept true to who you are and still managed to make it work just shows-ta-go-ya…it is a numbers game.  I should remember that!  All this has nothing, really, to do with the ‘worth’ of either party, but more to do with staying in the game, remembering who I am; and just enjoying the ride (bumpy though it may be). 
 
Thank you again, Sir, very much.

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Letting go...online - 9/3/2006 6:54:58 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

All this has nothing, really, to do with the ‘worth’ of either party, but more to do with staying in the game, remembering who I am; and just enjoying the ride (bumpy though it may be).  
 


And you can't 'win' the game if you don't 'play' the game.  We have threads about going back to vanilla, and nobody seems to want to do THAT, so we have to keep ourselves 'out there'.  To be found.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 60
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