RE: "No Limits Slave"

RE: "No Limits Slave" (Full Version)

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ownedgirlie -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 6:58:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sharainks Sublizzie I think thats part of the learning process on here. So many who are relatively new and some not so new, simply don't think of all the things a Master could want. They might think it so absurd in their own mind that they would never consider that it could happen. You make a good point. While in the "exploration" phase with my Master (aka: Under Consideration), a LOT of hypothetical situations were brought up and discussed as he learned me. This gave him an understanding of how far my mind would reach and my response to it, and it gave me an understanding of some of his desires. There were also times he would say he had no intention of doing (whatever was discussed) but it was still his option to do, should he change his mind. And it's true - some of those things he has actually done; other things he has not. However, he has never engaged me in more than I could handle. Growth is just that. One learns to crawl before walking, etc.

Invictus754 -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Fact or fiction? Where does 'no limits' (assuming such exists) stop being simply BDSM, M/s or D/s and become out and out abuse? i am not trying to start a flame war, here... i truly want to know what others think. There IS such a thing as a "no limit slave"... No limit slave = soldier

Invictus754 -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:16:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic and that right there... is partly what i've been trying to get at... even a slave that claims 'no limits' has the limits of his/her Owner. Thereby defeating the very term 'no limits'. Unless the Owner has No limits...

angelic -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:16:47 PM)
then i'm guessing there are 2 prison cells awaiting them! [:D]

angelic -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:17:58 PM)
Invictus... thank You!!! yes... You are correct and i truly do thank You for stating that...

Invictus754 -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:25:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie Where did logic and common sense go? Would you eat ants or spiders? Just because you think that these are revolting to eat, some people in the world eat these items and like them (or eat them to just stay alive). None of them will really hurt you (well, it may hurt some psychologically), but because you don't do it daily, you think it is odd to the point of sickening. Just becasue someone else says "No Limits" and they mean it, doesn't mean that you should judge them with your moral code. It won't work. It may be that they trust their Master so much, that they know that he will go to all means to keep them truly safe... although he may make them eat spiders occasionally.

SusanofO -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:31:27 PM)
Level's post, plus another thread, got me thinking about this thread's question. It's interesting how this thread's question can coincide nicely with the thought that people shouldn't let non-consensual persons be put in a position to be affected by their kink. Well - in the case of suicide- for anyone else's "pleasure" I'd bet that leaves a lot of nonconsensually involved people, in some cases, "affected" by the other person's kink. The survivors. Suicide can be devastating to family and friends, regardless of whether one thinks their kink is "their business", or not. Unmentionables, ex-spouses, friends, family, etc. - who can ultimately guarantee there won't be any emotional devastation to these people if such a request were to play out? Nobody. And - If being "unselfsh" is supposedly one of the goals of a submissive, I think it might pay for both the Master and the slave to ask themselves how "selfish or not" a Master's request of a "No Limits!" slave actually is. I am not saying any Master would actually require anyone to die for them, but - asking if a slave would do this, and even making them think it is going to happen in reality (and I am not talking about an "extreme scene" merely, I am talking about any mindfu_ that might seriously lead them to believe their Master is going to actually kill them) - would be off-limits (for me). I'd have to question how straight any such Master had their head screwed on, given the potentially devastating affects of a suicide. As someone on another thread pointed out (in the "I Just Don't Get It" thread) - whoever would ask someone to seriously consider such an act, might be in for not only legal trouble, but perhaps devastating emotional residue, down the line. Suicide is a decision that is absolutely, positively irrevocable. And - IF the numbers of people who may be potentially directly affected by this seeming display of "devotion" count for anything, then the sheer number of people potentially very adversely affected by this "No Limit" request - by slaves who say they would "die for their Master" should (my opinion) outweigh this request on the part of any responsible Master. It isn't a "submissive" act to request. I think it might just be the most extreme selfish and irresponsible act - because so many people are potentially adversely affected by it, who are not going to be in (consenually anyway) in on the "consensual kink" scene of the players involved. Those are my "two cents" _ Susan

Kree -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:32:02 PM)
Re: "no limits slave" Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source new! slave /sleɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sleyv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, slaved, slav‧ing. –noun 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. The term "no limits slave" makes no sense. By definition, a slave is chattel to be used by their owner for whatever purposes the owner deems proper. There have been comments that a "no limits slave" share the limits of their owner, which might be subject to change, thus changing the dynamic. The dynamic of "slave" would not change if a real world definition of slave were applied. The owner might have a radical shift in their thinking, or actions, which would not change the simple fact that a slave is "a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another, a bond servant". Perhaps there should be a BDSM law that says if you claim to be a slave, you must have the real world definition of slave tattooed on your arm and read it 10 times per day. If you claim to be a "no limits slave" you must read it 1000 times per day. I have no desire to start a discussion of submissive vs slave because we all should acknowledge that the term slave means little in a BDSM context. 99.99% of the people proclaiming their slavery are submissives with deep feelings of submission, not slaves. That other .001% likely contains some that actually do live as real world slaves, but we probably dont hear much from them because they dont sit around posting to internet boards. The word slave has become a romanticized version of "submissive" that bears little or no resemblence to the real definition of the word, thus making "no limits slave" an oxymoron at best.

SusanofO -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:38:25 PM)
I think "who else could be adversely affected by this act, besides me or my slave"? might not ever be a bad question to ask - especially if the act or behavior in question is extreme. Level had a good point. And I think - if you really believe it's nobody else's right to ever "interfere with anyone else's kink" - then that (I think anyway) makes it imperative the people involved in said consensual kink think the potential affects on others over - carefully. Of course as we all know, any good Master does this anyway.[:)] Plus, it's none of my business. I don't care what other people do. But - that was the topic. - Susan

Nimkii -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 7:55:04 PM)
The only place I think that no limit slaves exists are in the pages of books. every one has soemthing they wouldn't do. Regardless of role or place in the lifestyle. they may be the things never spoken about between the said party, but the still exist.

mstrjx -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 8:43:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx As part of life, we change, sometimes subtly. In relationships, say of two people, each person changes individually. If the two people are changing in the same direction, as one might describe a 'healthy' relationship, it falls back on the trust factor. The trust is still the same, so the new activity continues apace. If the 'changing' is in opposite directions, anyway, then there is a breakdown in the relationship. The new activity might spur a 'break', or one might be coming inevitably. Jeff Couldn't you argue then that if the slave parts ways if the change is too drastic that this is in and of itself a limit the slave has?? I think what happens is that at some point there is a breakdown in trust, and the relationship ends. It doesn't have to do with the limits per se. Limits are only valuable if there is a conduit for their need. Jeff

amayos -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 9:05:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kree 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. The term "no limits slave" makes no sense. By definition, a slave is chattel to be used by their owner for whatever purposes the owner deems proper. There have been comments that a "no limits slave" share the limits of their owner, which might be subject to change, thus changing the dynamic. The dynamic of "slave" would not change if a real world definition of slave were applied. The owner might have a radical shift in their thinking, or actions, which would not change the simple fact that a slave is "a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another, a bond servant". Perhaps there should be a BDSM law that says if you claim to be a slave, you must have the real world definition of slave tattooed on your arm and read it 10 times per day. If you claim to be a "no limits slave" you must read it 1000 times per day. I have no desire to start a discussion of submissive vs slave because we all should acknowledge that the term slave means little in a BDSM context. 99.99% of the people proclaiming their slavery are submissives with deep feelings of submission, not slaves. That other .001% likely contains some that actually do live as real world slaves, but we probably dont hear much from them because they dont sit around posting to internet boards. The word slave has become a romanticized version of "submissive" that bears little or no resemblence to the real definition of the word, thus making "no limits slave" an oxymoron at best. Definition 2 of your own post discounts your sole chattel (movable legal property) slant, Kree. While it is true slavery was (and in certain portions of the world, still is) a legal-based term, legality alone does not define all states of slavery. I would remind you there are over twenty million humans in a state of slavery in the world today, and a large fraction of that number exists within boarders or between borders of countries which legally outlaw slavery on the surface, including the United States. In a BDSM context, I agree that many may romanticize or severely misuse the term, but I am not at all in question over whether or not a human being can exist within a complete state of what was at first an easy choice-based personal subjugation. Psychological bondage is just as, if not more persuasive than, physical bondage. Educating oneself over the psychology of capture bonding and conditioning is highly recommended. This may be a small, nit-picking, neither here nor there detail, but you also left out another definition from your source: 3. A drudge. Drudge: a person who does menial, distasteful, dull, or hard work. While this only covers a portion of what constitutes a slave under me, this third definition, if you are to go solely by dictionary.com's source, would further discount your assertion that slave is defined by movable legal property value alone.

porcelaine -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 9:12:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Fact or fiction? Where does 'no limits' (assuming such exists) stop being simply BDSM, M/s or D/s and become out and out abuse? i am not trying to start a flame war, here... i truly want to know what others think. When the individual in service to the dominant no longer feels their experiences are consensually oriented. In regard to the initial portion of your question. It matters not what you or I believe. Your servitude is given to one, not a crowd of dissenting voices. porcelaine

Homestead -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 9:17:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amayos quote: ORIGINAL: Kree 1. a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant. 2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. The term "no limits slave" makes no sense. By definition, a slave is chattel to be used by their owner for whatever purposes the owner deems proper. There have been comments that a "no limits slave" share the limits of their owner, which might be subject to change, thus changing the dynamic. The dynamic of "slave" would not change if a real world definition of slave were applied. The owner might have a radical shift in their thinking, or actions, which would not change the simple fact that a slave is "a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another, a bond servant". Perhaps there should be a BDSM law that says if you claim to be a slave, you must have the real world definition of slave tattooed on your arm and read it 10 times per day. If you claim to be a "no limits slave" you must read it 1000 times per day. I have no desire to start a discussion of submissive vs slave because we all should acknowledge that the term slave means little in a BDSM context. 99.99% of the people proclaiming their slavery are submissives with deep feelings of submission, not slaves. That other .001% likely contains some that actually do live as real world slaves, but we probably dont hear much from them because they dont sit around posting to internet boards. The word slave has become a romanticized version of "submissive" that bears little or no resemblence to the real definition of the word, thus making "no limits slave" an oxymoron at best. Definition 2 of your own post discounts your sole chattel (movable legal property) slant, Kree. While it is true slavery was (and in certain portions of the world, still is) a legal-based term, legality alone does not define all states of slavery. I would remind you there are over twenty million humans in a state of slavery in the world today, and a large fraction of that number exists within boarders or between borders of countries which legally outlaw slavery on the surface, including the United States. In a BDSM context, I agree that many may romanticize or severely misuse the term, but I am not at all in question over whether or not a human being can exist within a complete state of what was at first an easy choice-based personal subjugation. Psychological bondage is just as, if not more persuasive than, physical bondage. Educating oneself over the psychology of capture bonding and conditioning is highly recommended. This may be a small, nit-picking, neither here nor there detail, but you also left out another definition from your source: 3. A drudge. Drudge: a person who does menial, distasteful, dull, or hard work. While this only covers a portion of what constitutes a slave under me, this third definition, if you are to go solely by dictionary.com's source, would further discount your assertion that slave is defined by movable legal property value alone. Most people do not understand the reality of internal enslavement. To try to express it to closed minds is futile. It springs from desire, and flourishes under the guidance of an artful methodology.

porcelaine -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 10:07:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead Most people do not understand the reality of internal enslavement. To try to express it to closed minds is futile. It springs from desire, and flourishes under the guidance of an artful methodology. I see we have a shared interest Sir. As with all things the ability to learn is solely based upon one's willingness to listen and recognize opinions that may be in agreement with or contradict our own. porcelaine

IronBear -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 10:18:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Homestead quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear velvet, I agree with you. However, for me it just wouldn't be cricket to do this to a slave. She deserves a choice of living or dying.. For serious interogation? No options I would and have squeezed the trigger. besides I refuse to clean up the mess when they shit their pants. Taking a life is not an option of choice in western society. or encouraging another to do so. Either way is still murder. You have comp-letely mis interpreted and misunderstood the excersise. the fact is were I to use this, there would be no live ammunition in the gun. The point is simple and clear. If she beds for her life she has limits.. The exercise I proposed was to erredicate all the hot air and waffle about slave rights and no limit slaves.. Simple test and one similar to the Old Testiment with Somomon's Judgement... Perhaps this is far to esoteric and complex for you to have understool or you are just being fractious as usuall.

IronBear -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 10:24:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Place the barrel against the slave's temple and ask if she want's you to squeeze the trigger. If she says yes, she will put her life on the line for you and you need to collar her pronto for you have a true rarety. or she just might value herself as a worthless person and that her death is no lost to the living... so saying yes is not so much a devotion to the Master... but a lack of value for what she can give to the Master Pity the person that things they had more value to a Master if they are Dead as compared to being alive. Silly me... but I always thought a slave's value comes accepting life over death. KoM, please read my comments in the previous post. You really think it is necessary to carry the exercise through. I believe you sarcasm does not do you credit. I would have thought, that if you did not see through and recognise the purpose of the exercise. You may have at least argued your case logically instead if using techniques more suited to this of a lesser calibre and less dicernment.

Tikkiee -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 10:25:49 PM)
LOL Ironbear...

Wolfie648 -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 10:39:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic Fact or fiction? Where does 'no limits' (assuming such exists) stop being simply BDSM, M/s or D/s and become out and out abuse? i am not trying to start a flame war, here... i truly want to know what others think. Abuse cannot happen within a 'no limits' relationship. No limits means one 'person' gives up everything. Including the right to breathe. It's not to be done lightly. But thats just me (i.e. go flame someone else ;-) edit for typo bleh

marieToo -> RE: "No Limits Slave" (9/4/2006 11:01:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Invictus754 quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie Where did logic and common sense go? Would you eat ants or spiders? Just because you think that these are revolting to eat, some people in the world eat these items and like them (or eat them to just stay alive). None of them will really hurt you (well, it may hurt some psychologically), but because you don't do it daily, you think it is odd to the point of sickening. Just becasue someone else says "No Limits" and they mean it, doesn't mean that you should judge them with your moral code. It won't work. It may be that they trust their Master so much, that they know that he will go to all means to keep them truly safe... although he may make them eat spiders occasionally. Now, would these spiders be rolled in toasted coconut and drizzled with dark chocolate by any chance?

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