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RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 7:11:57 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		I read, i listen and then i decide for myself.  To do otherwise would make me less than who i am and just because i am submissive does not mean i don't have a very good mind (foggy at times lately but there).

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"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

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RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 7:50:11 PM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, I've learned alot here. Sometimes it has helped to alter how I look at things on a personal level. Sometimes, the information just doesn't apply to me at all, but can be used when I look at someone else and take those things into consideration. When someone is asking for help or an answer, yes, I do think that the volumn of answers also aids them in thinking out their thoughts.
You have two well thought out and expressed answers then 20 people telling you yes and 2 telling you no, I think it does help you to rethink something closer, if you're one of the people who've been siding on the no side. That's not saying that I would always go with the people who're saying yes, but I think I would surely take a closer look as to the why's, then make up my own mind about it.
There is a beautiful thread that deals with submission and how this person approaches it and her thoughts on it. A way in which I would never have imagined before. I was blown away. Even if it never is how it will be for any relationship I get into, I was enlightened and can only hope <smile>

~Big

(in reply to diamonddreamlove)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 8:00:51 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have noticed that sometimes people do not care for my opinon, as long as I know in my heart I was not being hateful and my intent is good, I do not care if others agree with me or disagree. I have had bad days where I do not state my opinion in a PC sorta way, but I have noticed that some people will read whatever they want into what I have to say no matter how I say it.. they misconstrue it to fit their agenda.. so no, I do not alter my views unless someone can show they have good solid data to support their position. I have held unpopular views my whole adult life and basically the only thing in life I worry about are the opinions of those I love, and those who contribute economically to my well being by providing me with a way to make a living... all others are in the "Nice to hear what you think, will consider it" Category


I find many people have trouble separating facts from opinions, but maybe that is just my perception because people who do this stand out like a sore thumb. I am sure I have been guilty of this myself at times..

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/4/2006 8:02:04 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 9:03:15 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been on this site a while now,not really posting much,as I prefer to read,and learn.Now reading some of the posts,where there is a bit of a debate going on between a couple of people,I was wondering,if a person posts something which may be their thoughts,as they see things,and others post against that persons view of things,i.e.the majority think they are incorrect,does that person learn from the majority and modify their thought,or do they continue as normal.What about you lot here,what would you do?


I believe everyone has something to learn and to teach. I remain open to new experiences and methodologies. Even if the information I happen upon is not of use to me at the moment, it could be of value to another or precisely what I need down the road. Some people are not comfortable with having their beliefs challenged. I have no desire to remain where I am and continually seek growth enabling opportunities and dialogues. I believe the forum exposes us to a myriad of opinions and experiences to draw from. Whether these are good or bad isn't the important factor. If you can walk away from the computer at the end of the day having gained a bit of knowledge you did not possess when you sat down, you have benefitted from this. The impact and changes that stem from these things are yours to determine.

porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 10:11:02 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been on this site a while now,not really posting much,as I prefer to read,and learn.Now reading some of the posts,where there is a bit of a debate going on between a couple of people,I was wondering,if a person posts something which may be their thoughts,as they see things,and others post against that persons view of things,i.e.the majority think they are incorrect,does that person learn from the majority and modify their thought,or do they continue as normal.What about you lot here,what would you do?


Not to ignore your question (although I guess I am it's not out of disrepect for the question or yourself).

I sometimes find it fascinating (hard thing to do) to read the different viewpoints/thought processes presented by people here.

D (owner of j).



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Possibly.

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RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 11:09:20 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been on this site a while now,not really posting much,as I prefer to read,and learn.Now reading some of the posts,where there is a bit of a debate going on between a couple of people,I was wondering,if a person posts something which may be their thoughts,as they see things,and others post against that persons view of things,i.e.the majority think they are incorrect,does that person learn from the majority and modify their thought,or do they continue as normal.What about you lot here,what would you do?



Yes, people can learn, and I believe they do, from time to time. I know for a fact I have learned some interesting perspectives from participants in these forums who have presented their case with thought and reflection.

What I think we all should steer clear of is making a fetish out of devaluing the very thing we claim to love. It never ceases to amaze me how some people devote so much time and energy to tearing others down with assumptions and judgments. I think everyone needs to personally reflect and ask themselves if they are contributing positively to a larger world or just existing to subvert the expressed efforts and ideals of others at every turn out of boredom, political ideaology or self-important "ethics."




< Message edited by amayos -- 9/4/2006 11:15:36 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 11:14:31 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		I know of some, who are indeed, unable to step outside of their ethic. 

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do people learn? - 9/4/2006 11:49:03 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I am not so rigid in my views that any opposing view is bounced right off of me without any consideration.    I am open to considering logical, well thought out positions.  To do otherwise would be to think I am right all the time, and that would be my first mistake.  This does not mean my mind will necessarily change because of opposing views.  Naturally, if they do not make sense to me based on my values and principles, then I will keep my position on the subject.


This was very succinctly stated.  I was typing out some million word thing with run on sentences trying to make this exact point.  I will add that I am becoming more open minded to considering others peoples points of view.  Its not easy all the time, but Im getting better at it.  Like you, ownedgirlie, there are just certain things that dont even make it to the argument-worthy catagory for me, and those are things that cross my core beliefs, or "principles" as you put it.  Im also trying to be more gentle in my wording of things and be more mindful of how someone might take something.  But man o man...sometimes no matter how hard you try, someone is just bound and determined to get pissed off. 

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 1:28:59 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I am not so rigid in my views that any opposing view is bounced right off of me without any consideration.    I am open to considering logical, well thought out positions.  To do otherwise would be to think I am right all the time, and that would be my first mistake.  This does not mean my mind will necessarily change because of opposing views.  Naturally, if they do not make sense to me based on my values and principles, then I will keep my position on the subject.


This was very succinctly stated.  I was typing out some million word thing with run on sentences trying to make this exact point.  I will add that I am becoming more open minded to considering others peoples points of view.  Its not easy all the time, but Im getting better at it.  Like you, ownedgirlie, there are just certain things that dont even make it to the argument-worthy catagory for me, and those are things that cross my core beliefs, or "principles" as you put it.  Im also trying to be more gentle in my wording of things and be more mindful of how someone might take something.  But man o man...sometimes no matter how hard you try, someone is just bound and determined to get pissed off. 

I have noticed a gentler approach in many of your recent posts, Marie, for what it's worth :)

But you are right - sometimes.....ya just can't win!  It's then that you have to remind yourself (I mean that generally speaking) to  not get sucked into those exchanges.  I don't always succeed at that, as was demonstrated in a recent thread, lol.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 2:52:02 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		One thing that seems to be universal about message boards regardless of genre is that people often ask for "advice" when what they really want is validation of their opinion.  In that case, very little learning, if any, is happening.  However, i think people who are seeking education will find it.  Personally, i believe motive is what defines sin or virtue, not the act itself, so if education isn't the motive then nothing is learned.

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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 6:04:42 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

One thing that seems to be universal about message boards regardless of genre is that people often ask for "advice" when what they really want is validation of their opinion.  In that case, very little learning, if any, is happening.


Excellent point.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 6:12:22 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		If I need real advice for a moral dilemma, I am likely going to ask those who are close to me to get opinions from those who know the story, know the parties involved and who I know well enough to trust their experience and opinion.  When I read others' issues it makes me think, sometimes it validates my own way of looking at a situation, sometimes it opens my mind to other possibilities, sometimes it gives me a perception of another's character. 

What I really learn, though, more than anything are the little things.  I learn techniques, tips, etc.  General moral behavior, the difference between right and wrong, how to be polite, etc. is something that is not BDSM specific and something my parents taught me a long long time ago.  While I may not always do the right thing, I try to and definitely know the difference.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 6:23:55 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Learning is up to the person reading the posts. If nothing else, you do get other people's opinions..then you can do with those opinions as you see fit. Many folks give their input based on experience, which is valuable, other's base their words off on only what they believe to be true...also valuable, but only because now you know what they think, not necessarily what is right. As in all walks of life, there are assholes who swear and be damned that their way is the only way (a few posters come to mind) and there are those who actually impart words of wisdom. The goal is to sift through the muck and extract what is valid, and more importantly, what you can use.

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Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 6:42:35 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I am not so rigid in my views that any opposing view is bounced right off of me without any consideration.    I am open to considering logical, well thought out positions.  To do otherwise would be to think I am right all the time, and that would be my first mistake.  This does not mean my mind will necessarily change because of opposing views.  Naturally, if they do not make sense to me based on my values and principles, then I will keep my position on the subject.


This was very succinctly stated.  I was typing out some million word thing with run on sentences trying to make this exact point.  I will add that I am becoming more open minded to considering others peoples points of view.  Its not easy all the time, but Im getting better at it.  Like you, ownedgirlie, there are just certain things that dont even make it to the argument-worthy catagory for me, and those are things that cross my core beliefs, or "principles" as you put it.  Im also trying to be more gentle in my wording of things and be more mindful of how someone might take something.  But man o man...sometimes no matter how hard you try, someone is just bound and determined to get pissed off. 

I have noticed a gentler approach in many of your recent posts, Marie, for what it's worth :)

But you are right - sometimes.....ya just can't win!  It's then that you have to remind yourself (I mean that generally speaking) to  not get sucked into those exchanges.  I don't always succeed at that, as was demonstrated in a recent thread, lol.


nah.  That was genuine mistunderstanding, disagreement and passioin.  What  Im talking about for instance, is when you say something and someone interprets it and responds but they misunderstood what you meant...and you say...."oh...no no no, thats not what I meant...please dont take it that way, I didnt mean to imply xyz".  and they say...."well you said abc so that just HAS to mean hij"   And no matter how you word it or what example you use, they refuse to acknowledge what you're telling them, and insist you did not mean it how you are telling them you meant it.  Or you say to someone around here "gee isnt it a nice day, the sun is shining, theres a nice breeze". and they say "Who are you to decide that sunshine indicates a nice day.  Maybe some people hate sunshine.  Youre trying to say that every day that the sun shines means its a nice day for everyone on the planet.  What if the sun was shining and gentle breeze was blowing and someones friend was killed in a car wreck, do you think that sunny day would be a NICE day for THEM". Maybe you should make it clear, that it may be a nice day for YOU but not for everyone. Its just your opinion that its a nice day"   Well no shit. If I said it, clearly its MY opinion.  Who elses could it be.  lol.  Sometimes...often even.. I think people are here to fight.  Im trying to sugar coat my Jersey 'tude around here for the benefit of these sensitive types, who dont understand its my style and not an attack, but sometimes no matter what I say or how I say it, there is someone out there who is just looking for a stepping stone to use to get onto a soapbox.  And I think if you want to do that about a topic, its ok, but open a thread, dont use another person to play off of.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 9/5/2006 6:46:24 AM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 8:05:25 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		If we all agree on everything, what a dull and boring world that would be. Opinions are like asshol;es: everybody's got one. And that's the beauty of this lifestyle; we call all interpret and define what we are and who we are. No reason to radically change thinking just because one's opinion is in the minority.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 8:58:46 AM   
kitty2MLoneWolf


Posts: 149
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have been on this site a while now,not really posting much,as I prefer to read,and learn.Now reading some of the posts,where there is a bit of a debate going on between a couple of people,I was wondering,if a person posts something which may be their thoughts,as they see things,and others post against that persons view of things,i.e.the majority think they are incorrect,does that person learn from the majority and modify their thought,or do they continue as normal.What about you lot here,what would you do?


http://www.collarchat.com/m_470038/tm.htm

If you follow the thread through.. yes.. I learned alot.. as did many others who followed this thread as well.

_____________________________

used to be jessieme but I got a life <grin>

Dont worry about what other people think....they dont do it very often!

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 9:08:20 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I try to keep an open mind. You can't learn anything with a closed mind, can you?
That said some people just like to argue about anything.
Then there are the "purists" that think that there is only "one way" to do things and if you don't do things their way you aren't a "Real" Dom/me, sub/slave etc.

(in reply to kitty2MLoneWolf)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do people learn? - 9/5/2006 11:16:14 AM   
windy135


Posts: 437
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		What people learn is completely different from what they do with what they have learned.  Debate is healthy it gives chance to look at ones self and reflect on why the feel or believe something to be a certain way.  Does it change their perspective ,,  like everyone has said, sometimes yes sometimes no.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 38
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