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Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, wounds m... - 9/4/2006 8:49:21 PM

MistressWolfen

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I would be interested in your comments on this most recent... umm err heh "mishap"...
Specifically; I would like to open the dialogue to the recurrent problems the U.S. military forces seems to be encountering in differentiating the "enemy" from the "peace keepers"...as they say (sorta) get me once shame on you...get me twice shame on me.

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Post #: 1

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/4/2006 9:32:51 PM

Termyn8or

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A totally corrupt government is not competent. Did you miss that in Life 101 ?

By hiring cronies they mke it that way.

T

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 2

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/4/2006 9:38:49 PM

mnottertail

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since you cannot be discovered...

Here is the deal, don't matter that is how we do war and foreign policy.

If you think that anybody out there has killed and maimed more people by design than by accident..........

I just don't know what to say. It is called war.

nope, no more to say,
Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 3

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 12:45:13 AM

meatcleaver

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Yep. The British forces have been finding this a real problem. Troops have been told to slow down to a crawl should they encounter American troops, one NCO said no thanks, we just go as fast as hell in the opposite direction. Apparently many GIs don't know the uniforms and falgs of their allies but since the only armies in Iraq are allies, I don't see why this should make a difference.

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 4

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 5:26:48 AM

philosophy

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.........it would be interesting to see a study done on relative incidence of friendly fire (which isn't)........seriously, is there one army in the world any worse than others? If so, is it a training issue? Or a perception one? If no study has been done, why not?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 5

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:04:24 AM

MistressWolfen

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I am a little confused as what corruption has to do with it, but thanks for your thoughts Termyn8or.

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Post #: 6

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:09:51 AM

MistressWolfen

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Yes Ron I agree it is war, it was this one specific area I was addressing. Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Oh, and Canada was So discovered...look north. *Waves* waaaayyyy south and east to Ron, we are that really large usually pink (on school maps) land mass that occupies the rest of the continent with the U.S.A.

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RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:11:28 AM

MistressWolfen

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Interesting points, I don't know if such a study exists...and you are correct it may well be media coverage.

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(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 8

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:16:29 AM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

A totally corrupt government is not competent. Did you miss that in Life 101 ?

By hiring cronies they mke it that way.

T

Corrupt government?   What does that h ave to do with sighting a weapons system?

There are many things that cause friendly fire incidents. These include:

   1.    Poor training.
   2.    Improper coordinates either reported to/by fire control.   One possible cause is dyslexia or transfering numbers in the heat of battle.
   3.    Improper use of ammunition (different ammunition has different aiming characteristics).
   4.    Proximity of the ememy. Crew served weapons are usually do not fire guided muntions and hit areas not specific people. they call it danger close which means that there is a good chance that someone friendly to us is gonna get hurt.

These are just some of the causes.   When I was at Fort Hood, TX there was a tank on gunnery target that had its aiming setting properly input but the equipment was faulty and the range officer noticed that this one tank was pointed differently.   When they bore sighted it, they found out that the crew did its job but the weapon was aimed to hit City Hall in Kileen, TX (a friendly - well sorta - LOL).

In the heat of battle, shit happens.   it is unfortunate, but it happens.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 9

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:32:01 AM

MistressWolfen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
There are many things that cause friendly fire incidents. These include:

1.    Poor training.
2.    Improper coordinates either reported to/by fire control.   One possible cause is dyslexia or transfering numbers in the heat of battle.
3.    Improper use of ammunition (different ammunition has different aiming characteristics).
4.    Proximity of the ememy. Crew served weapons are usually do not fire guided muntions and hit areas not specific people. they call it danger close which means that there is a good chance that someone friendly to us is gonna get hurt.

Thank you Ken, not having any military training this helped put things in perspective for me.

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Quoth the raven

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 10

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:43:44 AM

KenDckey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressWolfen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
There are many things that cause friendly fire incidents. These include:

1.    Poor training.
2.    Improper coordinates either reported to/by fire control.   One possible cause is dyslexia or transfering numbers in the heat of battle.
3.    Improper use of ammunition (different ammunition has different aiming characteristics).
4.    Proximity of the ememy. Crew served weapons are usually do not fire guided muntions and hit areas not specific people. they call it danger close which means that there is a good chance that someone friendly to us is gonna get hurt.

Thank you Ken, not having any military training this helped put things in perspective for me.

Friendly fire incidents are unfortunate. Unfortunately they do exist. Of the millions of rounds expended the number of incidents are small, Thank God. No soldier likes friendly fire incidents or wants them to occur. If a soldier in combat wants someone dead they just throw a grenade into a tent and it is all over (murder). Unfortunately this happens too - as fairly recent history shows.

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 11

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:48:36 AM

meatcleaver

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The problem many British troops have complained about is being fired on when simply travelling around in convoys near areas controled by American troops and not in the heat of action. It is not only British troops that have complained but Italian and Dutch too.

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 12

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 6:52:18 AM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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It happens. I am not too worried about it. This is war. Bad things happen during war. Who knows? Maybe they had been up all night and could not see straight? Maybe they needed target practice? Maybe their nerves were shot? I do not know, but this is not the first time such a thing has happened.

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Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 13

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 7:02:31 AM

meatcleaver

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It's always the American troops that are firing on their allies and never the other way round and there in lies the problem.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 14

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 7:24:22 AM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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Well, the way I see it I have never fought in a war. I am now too old to do so. I will never know what life is like through their eyes, so I will not judge, nor am I qualified to make comment.

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Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 15

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 8:13:17 AM

CrappyDom

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Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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Ken,

Too late, you already did, but I hope you stick to that, it would make the forum a more intelligent place.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 16

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 8:16:34 AM

CrappyDom

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Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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US troops in general rarely train with other countries, that is especially true of guard troops. However, since the british and other troops wear uniforms and carry weapons with VERY distinct profiles (those stupid bullpups) one would think they would stand out from Afghans with AKs.

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 17

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 8:18:44 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Ken,

Too late, you already did, but I hope you stick to that, it would make the forum a more intelligent place.

As long as you are in it with your Republican and Christianity bashing stupidity, it would take a lot more than that I am afraid.

What I meant was that I can not offer specific comments as to why it happened. Nor can you. But I see you tried anyways. I'm just waiting for you to blame it on the Republican government.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 9/5/2006 8:19:27 AM >

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 18

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 8:25:07 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
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Ken,

If my comments are "stupid" then they should be easy to counter factually.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 19

RE: Friendly fire in Afghanistan kills 1 Canadian, woun... - 9/5/2006 8:32:12 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Ken,

If my comments are "stupid" then they should be easy to counter factually.

They are, but you forgot a very important variable... Are they worth the bother wasting the time? And the answer to that question is no, IMHO. You are stuck on your position, and no amount of facts will convince you otherwise. For instance, your Christianity position was demolished, yet you stuck to it. So, why waste the time on you? It can be served better somewhere else.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 20

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