RE: Attitude (Full Version)

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SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 1:29:36 AM)

riotgirl: You have got to stop posting interesting threads! So Baaad of you , really. [:D][;)] Yes, I agree with the spiritual thrusts of this thread that :"You are a child of the universe. No less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here. And whether or not, it is clear to you, no doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should".

I can't prove or disprove that of course, but I will say I never really bought "chaos" theory as far as a explanantion of how the universe functions. A butterfly flaps it's wings in my backyard, and that ultimately causes a volcano in Hawaii, for instance? Hmmm. I admit I don't understand the theory altogether, but it seemed like such a fundamentally sloppy, not to mention random, quagmire of an explanation to me, I guess I had a hard time swallowing it. It seemed so cold, too, when I read about it (but maybe I wasn't reading the interpretation of it from particulary descriptive or warm science writer). Personally, though, I do like to think there is some underlying, over-arching rythm and a reason that underlies all we do, and for me it seems to need to be more personal and engender faith there is a higher purpose to our existence in general. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm ever going to figure out what it is.

And that's okay, I think. Relax. Hey baby, take a bubble bath. Take a nap. As far as "mis-behaving", as an immediate solution to what you think may cause it, if you feel yourself thinking bad things about yourself, I do think that advice about "doing the opposite" can work. Try making a list of the traits that are opposite of all the bad ones that come to your mind in one day. Read it (even looking in a mirror while you do it, good suggestion from LA). Then lay down on a sofa or bed, imagine yourself in a serene, beautiful place. In the mountains, by a meadow near a sparkling, clear lake, for instance (or what ever you find beautiful. Take your time finding a scene you really like). Then, close your eyes and think: I am________, and repeat all of those good traits, one by one. Repeat those words a few times. I've done this (many moons ago). I found it inspiring and relaxing, but it took some repeatition (for me anyway).Words and images can be powerful things, afterall. 

And even if the sun, perchance, were to not come up tommorrow, or next week, for instance, then I firmly believe: You will still be okay. Because I think even if that happens, that somewhere, your consciousness will still exist, and that you will have made a good impact on the world by having used it. Can I absolutely prove that? I dunno...

But - I have to say, I always thought you werereally bright, riotgirl, and also seemed sweet. I've read your posts for a long time now. And because of that, I am thinking that: Somewhere along the line, your finer qualities have had a ripple effect you are probably not even aware of - that have made (and will make) a positive difference in the world. I do believe that it's very possible that your existence has been, overall, a good thing.  [:)]

- Susan        



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 2:07:41 AM)

RG, try to inundate yourself in activities that include dealing with people until all feelings of anxiety caused by being around others are gone. The activity has to have lots of talking and proximity to others. Stay with the activity such until it makes you very tired so that being with the people is the least of your worries. Your defense mechanisms will relax and you will listen and respond to others in a positive way. Once this relaxation occurs, your natural intelligence, which you have lots of, will lead you into all kinds of positive self discovery and comfort.



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 2:35:24 AM)

Now there's a good, hopeful thought, too. I do think so - because I do think you are a social (and sociable) being, riotgirl. If you weren't you would not post as much, or in any charming or endearing way, ever. Humans are all (fundamentally) social beings, I think. Activity with people.

- Susan



mons -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 3:18:58 AM)

greeting
 
when i read you letter wow i was shocked you want to change how you act or how you let people see that side of you that can kick ass? well first you need not to mention how you can kick ass many women can but not all will go around saying it that is the first part. a lady does not speak of kicking ass or how the girls are scare of her, i grow up in the ghetto you mention walking through i am grant you this one warning do not do it it is far worse then when left.  when i live in the ghetto and i have no ideal which on your speaking of but, when i was there i did not speak in the slang they use my parents taught me never eever to use that slang from when i was a child. but i was one and i am shame to say i was one who kick ass so much i now have a reputation which is to me a shame but as i learn had to fight.
 
but being a lady comes from being taught as a young one them growing and learning how to now curse. or spitting sitting at certain way. start by reading and watching how you speak you sound very young and that is ok. it is good you want help. even though i am a domme  have ways of speaking i do not use loud voice to control a slave there is a saying " still waters run deep" this to me means a quiet voice will work more then screaming at a slave or anyone.  now why are the girls scare of you be careful poeple do not fight like they did when i was younger they use guns and knife we use to fist fight, i do remember telling you lol and you said this i laughed but to go to the ghetto and which one to you wish to go to their are many mexican, white yes they have one too chiesen black, some of the african place , this how many there are. choose wisely.
 
your choose of ghetto made me laugh and it was a silly thing to say it saw again you young and need someone to teach you many thing are you a submissve i did not read you profile. it is good to have strenght and knowledgle of it but using it for other things is great you mind is stronger to think. strenght is not use just for fighting or over powering someone. use it to help you i have power i can knock someone out but i do not use it for that i use it for knowledge and learning. i lisnitng to the ladies here they give great aadive to everyone i stil learn thing from everyone here you do this and you will learn so much and stay out of the ghetto ok [&:]



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 3:58:46 AM)

mons: I agree with the gist of your kind intent to advise, and am fond of your posts. The mind can be a powerful realm. I think that what constitutes mannerly behavior is up for grabs, but I think that motive ultimatley wins out above all, when comtemplating what constitutes considerate behavior. I believe that someone's spirit can discerned as beautiful or ugly in a ghetto or a palace, but am sure not everyone would agree, of course.

There is that old adage: "Treat a hoe like a lady and a lady like a hoe". I know some "ladies" that some might (on an off-day) call "hoes" (I can't bring myself to used the word "whore", because someone called me that once, and I don't consider myself one, and didn't feel the connotation was applied fairly, and it cut me deeply). I could handle gentle name-calling, perhaps, as a sadistic kink, just not that word. The connotation is still just too perverse to me, sometimes. I guess I may be digressing, though (or being picky). Even if I do sometimes think I might want to tied up, beaten, and afterward hurled (gently, w/some expertise at hand) against a wall, for instance (and there do exist people who would vehemently argue, that even having that desire is "unladylike"). Ironic, isn't it? If not slightly amusing?

But, I guess that just my individual preference, philosophy, and personal experiences talking.  It is an interesting question though (to me) - what constitutes "consideration"? (which is another thread on the boards right now). Riotgirl is considering a lot right now, it seems, and I am sure she'll make the best decisions for herself, with all of the potentially valuable input she's receiving, and will continue to receive.

[:)]

- Susan



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 7:49:39 AM)

riotgirl: Look at amayos' picture. He's got a halo above his face in that picture. That's not an accident. Think he's evil incarnate? hehe (I don't. Would he be trying to help you if he was)?  I like the message it sends. It's creative human art, I think. Maybe that image can be extrapolated to: We can all be figurative "angels" (or "devils") sometimes? I think that's true, although I've never liked it when people use potentially emotionally-charged religious terminology to be hurtfully judgmental toward others. I liked re-reading "Desiderata" again, too. And parts of the Bible.

I love Desiderata. I read that it was found in an old church in Baltimore, supposedly, in the early 17th century, and was written by a monk. It was old and tattered when it was found, I read, and yet the words have endured as inspiration). And various parts of the Bible have endured for a long time, too, as generally applicable, simply because they are for many. But it amazes me for how long, sometimes, when I think about it. I think sometimes the length of time that writings can endure are not wholly accidental or random events, either (but I really don't want to get into any emotionally-charged or logical religious discussions, nor does anyone else I am fairly certain, it's just a personal observation).

[:)]
- Susan



justheather -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 7:56:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

 I liked re-reading "Desiderata" again, too (I love Desiderata. I read that it was found in an old church in Baltimore, supposedly, in the early 17th century, and was written by a monk). People are still reading it, after all this time, and being inspired by it. [:)]
- Susan


Yes, Susan, it is from a church in Baltimore (my home town). I too am moved every time I read it. It is the closest thing to a blue-print for happiness that I can think of.

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.

Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy. (ME)



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 8:12:52 AM)

justtheather: It seems so universal, as far as how it can apply to we humans, doesn't it? There's just this peaceful, no- pressure kind of flow to the words, but the words can be so powerful and inspiring.
[:)]
- Susan 



Aine -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 9:06:32 AM)

Funny...

I've always had the opposite problem.  I've always been a quiet, shy person growing up.  Especially through school.  Small in stature and size(but always a bit more muscular than the other girls).  Yet some of the females always had some sort of problem with me.  They saw something that wasn't there.  I wasn't a confrontational kind of person, never was, never will be.  Though, once they got to know me, they saw that the quietness and shyness was -real- and not some stuck-up attitude, they always changed their minds.  But there was one thing that almost all of them and others have said over time that has stuck.  That I'm intimidating.  Maybe it's the quiet observation, softspoken with the nasty "evil-eye" (or so I've been told).  I've been able to turn away males and females that were in my face with a simple look.  And it wasn't even that I was being menacing, it was just my way of getting them to go away and leave me alone.

I've learned to temper it over the years since high school, and  I'm not as shy as I was in school, but there are times and situations that I revert back to that, and I get really quiet.

I will agree with whoever said that situations and surroundings will shape our attitudes and our visible personalities.  But being aware of our attitudes and our personalities is the most important thing.  Only from there can we make the effort to change or to temper and tweak those things about ourselves that we may not want to portray.  And keeping those things within conscious thought will help us become more of the person we want to be. 

Sometimes it's good if we are not comfortable in certain surroundings, to emerse ourselves in it from time to time.  I don't like the word "desensitize"....but it kind of gets my point across.  We might not necessarily become wholly comfortable in those situations, but we will eventually be able to handle ourselves better when we are in them.

And on that point, emersing doesn't mean one specific thing.  If you're quiet and shy, it doesn't mean making yourself go up to and talk to 20 random people in an hour.  If you are an outgoing person it doesn't mean just sitting and observing.  I prefer to look at it as a combination of the two.  Take the time to observe those around you and their attitudes, their body language.  Really take a look at your surrounding and try to pick out those things that you might see in yourself.  Things you both like and dislike.  See how others are reacting to those people that you are studying.

Then take it a step further.  Center yourself a little then pick someone to talk to.  Be it someone you've never talked to before or one of your acquaintances.  Keep a sharp eye on your own attitude, tempering it in different ways and see how people react to you.



Dnomyar -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 12:01:46 PM)

There is a simple answer. Hook up with someone who has more attitude that you. It will be like looking in the mirror and you wont like what you see. Why do people have to give long rambling answers and not get to the point.



onestandingstill -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 12:15:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

I've aloooooooooot of attitude.  ::sigh :: yet recently i found out i portray an attitude that i didnt even know of!  What a pain, eh?  I was asking questions.. cant help it.  i do it alot. Inquiring minds want to know and all that!  So i'm told my attitude is abit off setting.  Which of course.. what attitude, was the next question.  They way it was described to me was "you walk like you've got beef"  Pretty much, i gather is that i come off like i want to kick some ones ass.. or w/e  Duh, i dunno.  LOL  And generally i suppose it works well for me.  Not many ppl "mess" with me.  LOL  And i find that alot of girls are scared of me.. which always perplexed me.. hmmm

Well i'd like to get rid of it!  Aye two personal goals in a week!  Not excatly sure how to get rid of it, or better yet how to control it.  To where, it comes out when i WANT it out and not when i'm not noticing. 

Anyways, so after this piece of info i went to a really sweet guy that adores me and double checked it!  i twas told that its more of a front.. and if a person is intelligent its easily see through and if they cant, dun worry about it.  Not that i'm really worried about others.

Its more a personal thing.  Like, i may WISH i was 6 foot and 240 lbs, but i dun want to go around ACTING like it.  Or acting like an angry 6 footer. 

Lets see, i've figured it this way.  Recognize it.  Find the source.  Change the thinking.  I'm at that "change the thinking" part and i'm abit stumped.  It a defense mechanism...  and i know where and all the whys of it.. but how to tell myself i dun need it anymore?  How to tell myself to "relax" and i dun need to be on "guard" 24/7? 

to make it simpler to understand.  Its like i act like i'm walking around the ghetto late a night on gaurd for some one to jump out the bushes AND i cant seem to bring myself back to walking around a suburb neighborhood. 

Suggestions, sugguestions?  anyone ever managed to change the presentatin of themselves?  And i dun mean like dress, talk, social norm stuff.  As it seems to come out in my mannerisms, the way i carry myself, the way i walk, how i look at ppl. 

Granted i've some one who's helping me out, but well i like to do things myself. = )


Hi Roit Girl,
I don't think you're trying to TKO two things this week. I think this thread and the letting people in and getting beyond your abandonment issues go hand in hand. The fear of letting people in has a lot to do with your attitude.

I'm being told I have some of the same issues as when I'm uncomfortable I ask a lot of questions too. A lifestyle friend told me she thinks I talk so much when I nervous as a control of the situation mechanism. That just floored me and left me confused over it till I did some soul searching and saw her point. I didn't even consider I was trying to control the fear by babbling till I saw it when she pointed it out.

My suggestion is the one I'm trying to take myself. I'm paying more attention to not only what I say, but why I'm saying it. I'm curbing the desire to be so talkative and trying to listen to others more. Like they say admitting you have a problem is half the battle won. You're going to get it straight much faster now you see it.


Suzanne



RiotGirl -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 12:24:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

RG, try to inundate yourself in activities that include dealing with people until all feelings of anxiety caused by being around others are gone. The activity has to have lots of talking and proximity to others. Stay with the activity such until it makes you very tired so that being with the people is the least of your worries. Your defense mechanisms will relax and you will listen and respond to others in a positive way. Once this relaxation occurs, your natural intelligence, which you have lots of, will lead you into all kinds of positive self discovery and comfort.


You know, i read through all this, this morning as i dashed around to clean, shower, and do school work before it was time to actually go to class.  Made me think.  I've wondered ALL day, if its all simply anxiety and i've tried monitering, watching how i feel, what i feel as i walked around campus.  You know and i do have anxiety.  So that very well could be the base of the attitude.  Fascinating..



truesub4u -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 12:38:55 PM)

Riot... you do what you need to do to make yourself happy. But remember this... being yourself doesn't mean you have an attitude. Others may see it as attitude. But changing for the sake of others.. is foolish.. changing for the sake of ones self.. is ideal. I never changed to make others happy...I changed things in my life that made me happy. My attitude hasn't really changed... I'm still the same as I've always been. I just decided everyone else was making me miserable. When I got away from the ones making me miserable.. I was even more happier.

So what ever you have discovered.... decide to do.... do it for you... and not someone else. Or you'll just find yourself miserable again.....and going thru same shit again.

Good luck hun...

Jessica



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 1:49:38 PM)

Thought this might apply:
 
"Strange that we all defend our wrongs with more vigor than our rights."
- Kahlil Gibran, (spiritual visonary, and poet).

- Susan



onestandingstill -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 3:14:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Thought this might apply:
 
"Strange that we all defend our wrongs with more vigor than our rights."
- Kahlil Gibran, (spiritual visonary, and poet).

- Susan


LOL as a slave that's your only choice technically isn't it? You have nor rights except the ones your Master speaks to defend or chooses to bestow on you.  Technically in the accepted protocol I've seen your only other option is if  it's so bad you just have to stand up, you always have right to terminate the relationship from the one you serve. If you defend your rights even to your basic needs it's viewed as a lack of respect, effort, or resistance to training.
Things like this make me wonder if I ever will be able to let go enough to be a slave. I am indeed one who will stand up to someone when they violate my  inalienable human rights. That is not a very accepted quality in a submissive or a slave. This concept actually breaks my heart as I do indeed wish to serve with my everything. I just can not accept abuse to prove devotion though.
How does a slave deal with the notion she does not technically count unless your Master wants you to? I know it's in the discernment of who you choose, but once in his family if he changes you are left with no choice but to fail.
Suzanne



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 4:08:58 PM)

onestandingstill (or anyone else who reads this):  That is, I think, definitely a philosophical question regarding the shared beliefs between two (or more) people. I hear you. There is no "right" or "wrong", I am thinking, only a mixture of judgment or acceptance (from either side). I suppose at the beginning of a relationship there is a definite need to have good judgment in choosing a Master, but the Master did some choosing as well. I think a need for communication does not evaporate the day after either person enters any relationship, or goes about the process of trying to develop one. I think some Masters realize this, and some don't. Some slaves do and some don't, probably, either. Personally, I think someone declaring they are a slave is mostly a question of semantics, but believe it is serious business to blindly declare oneself a slave.

I believe how submissives, and especially maybe some slaves, are treated in general depends not only on the Master (Dominant) in question, but more on the general relationship skills of both people involved, regardless of their "roles". I don't believe either "moving on" , or choosing to stay in a relationship necessarily needs to be internalized as "failure" or as a  stagnant character assessment. People grow and change. It can be fun and interesting, too. I don't understand using the term "fail"(but understand how some might feel they've done that, and how badly it can hurt).  I could go on but -

There's an excellent and interesting thread (I think anyway) in this General Discussion forum today on page 1 called "Do We Believe Change Is Not Possible?" that some who read this thread might also appreciate, Suzanne (that's my real name, too! Suzanne not Susan). I think it addresses this very question in more depth (not to make you hop around, or seem too lazy to answer you, but that thread does get more a bit specifically to the heart of this issue). I posted one reply to this specific question of yours on it today, and many others had very thoughtful opinions on that thread too, I thought. Another one that might apply to what you ask, that I thought was interesting, is  "Being Owned" (also in this forum).
[:)]
- Susan 



RiotGirl -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 4:39:29 PM)

Hiya True - Yeah i know what you mean.  Granted some one else pointed it out to me, but it is something i havent liked for a long time.  I used to privately joke to myself that if i was just stuck in a guys skin.. i'd do fine. 

Bah - me, be miserable?  Again?  Bah!  I've 3 rules now. 

Be happy for what you have
Fuck em if they cant take a joke
and just generally fuck em. 

LOL  - ok ok so the last two are abit the same, yet different.  Ya know.. if they dun like it.. who cares.. i'm not stressing over it and i'm not stressing over other ppl.  Screw em.  I've my own shiat to deal with, like getting my ass to London as fast as possible.  It is the most important thing to me.  London.  London and LONDON!  Damn it, i'm moving as fast as i can worm my way through the system to get the degree and bam.  London. 

But that doesnt stop me from personal discovery or little personal goals along the way.  Heck, i get bored with working out, tanning, going to school, cleaning, being a good mom and ect ect.  I needs something to THINK on.  Something to anaylze and fix.  i takes after my dad - i likes to fix things! 

Plus i dun like coming off as i dun wish to come off.  i wants to come off as i WANT to come off.  Which ever that may be. 





RiotGirl -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 4:50:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: onestandingstill

LOL as a slave that's your only choice technically isn't it? You have nor rights except the ones your Master speaks to defend or chooses to bestow on you.  Technically in the accepted protocol I've seen your only other option is if  it's so bad you just have to stand up, you always have right to terminate the relationship from the one you serve. If you defend your rights even to your basic needs it's viewed as a lack of respect, effort, or resistance to training.
Things like this make me wonder if I ever will be able to let go enough to be a slave. I am indeed one who will stand up to someone when they violate my  inalienable human rights. That is not a very accepted quality in a submissive or a slave. This concept actually breaks my heart as I do indeed wish to serve with my everything. I just can not accept abuse to prove devotion though.
How does a slave deal with the notion she does not technically count unless your Master wants you to? I know it's in the discernment of who you choose, but once in his family if he changes you are left with no choice but to fail.
Suzanne



Well this is a topic i am best not to get into.  Personally, i think you CAN be a slave and stand up, ya might get knocked back down into your "place" and you might actually teach em a thing or two.  i am generally not on such "good" terms with the whole BDSM idea, but it could just be the perspective i see at times.  But what do you do?  You give it all to em.  = )  The anger, the rage, the resentment, the hurt, the fear, the anxiety (from rights that are violated) as WELL with everything else the love the devotion - yadda yadda yadda (you get the point on the second half) and leave it up to them to do as they will with it.  They'll either do something GOOD about it, or they'll manipulate you until you learn to accept it.  Ya dun always have to stand up.  Heck, i've looked at some one and told them i was REALLY angry at my bunny and i'd like to nail him to the wall and he wasnt allowed in my bed anymore.  - )  In of course not an agressive tone.  LOL  You give everything.  No matter good or bad.  You do it an already agreed upon accepted manner, or you find one close enough to a previously agreed upon accepted behavoir.  And wala!  The manipulation to teach you to accept everything good and bad has begun!  Or of course you can just say "uuuh this sucks and i dun like it" and if you get deemed as a crappy slave, oh well. = )

but then i'm not the best one to talk



CrappyDom -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 5:00:13 PM)

Riotgirl,

You are doing what works for me (except I found a GOOD counselor who did things for me I was unable to do for myself) and that is notice the issue, find what in my past causes it, drag it into the light and watch it dissapate.

What helped immensely is developing a cheesy new age thing called "an inner observer" it is a little voice in your head that notices what you are doing.  As in "gee RG, this person seems caring, why are you being so cold" or whatever.  The other part of this is that when your inner observer notices you are doing something, you mentally whip around and look for the sort of emotional shadow from your past that is driving the current behavior.  It doesn't work instantly, some stuff you KNOW you are doing something but you can't figure out why or the reason you THINK you do it isn't really the one that is driving the behavior.

However, just having that voice notice when you are over or underreacting, or when you are putting on attitude (which is in reality usually posturing or overcompensating) and that at least allows you to mentally try and stop it or moderate the behavior.



SusanofO -> RE: Attitude (9/7/2006 6:47:14 PM)

I like the Inner Observer idea, and know there are good counselors out there (also, riotgirl, Googling the term Kink Aware Professionals into your computer will bring up a way to look them up in your area). I read a theory once that every person has what's called a "Little Professor", as a child. The "Little Professor's" "job" is to find solutions to problems, including how to develop relationships, and they can be ingenious at figuring things out that help them survive in an ongoing circumstance, for instance, that can become a hindrance in some situations, for them in later, adult life. A good counsellor can help someone spot just exactly how a person, as an adult, might also be learning things that work wonderfully well, as well as things that might not.

- Susan



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