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Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 12:02:04 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

Hey there,

I am a bit new to the entire BDSM lifestyle, and I do not have much experience. Part of the problem is the first Sub I was with had this overwhelming and overbearing need for discipline, and as it was my first experience in a D/s relationship, I had a fair bit of trouble complying with her needs. It got increasingly worse over the following 8 months and eventually it ended.

Since then, I have been reluctant to get back into anything at all, for fear of another bad experience. It seemed kind of awkward to answer to a cop because I didn't punish her...

I have been looking for a few weeks now and finally got directed to collarme.com by a Sub friend who has been in the lifestyle for 10 years. she advised me to look for a mentor of sorts, to sort of ease the overwhelming nature of getting into the lifestyle again.

Right now, I am working on a LDR, but my new sub is a little... emotional. I am having difficulties discussing certain things with her, more out of fear of a repeat of the first Sub. From either not punishing, or not know what is a cry for attention and what is a need for punishment... I just find myself reluctant. I have talked to her about this, and she feels it isn't that way at all, that I read her like a book. I can't even begin to count the times I have lost sleep (as a narcoleptic) staying up with her because she felt she wasn't good enough for me.

Any Ideas?

Post #: 1

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 1:41:12 AM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

Hey there,

I am a bit new to the entire BDSM lifestyle, and I do not have much experience. Part of the problem is the first Sub I was with had this overwhelming and overbearing need for discipline, and as it was my first experience in a D/s relationship, I had a fair bit of trouble complying with her needs. It got increasingly worse over the following 8 months and eventually it ended.

Eh. It sounds like you have the right idea to me. Don't let the sub run the relationship. End of story. Slaves either.

The difficulty with subs is they have safe words and can therefore run the relationship through that (depending of course on circumstances).

Define what you want; find someone else that wants the same thing. Good luck (seriously). Normally this takes years to decades. The better your definition the easier it is to determine who is not, and the longer it takes, seems to be my experience, perhaps not the consensus, to find that person(s).

D (owner of j).

*edit to fix typos and clarify*

< Message edited by Wolfie648 -- 9/7/2006 1:43:30 AM >

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 2

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 2:03:22 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

My problem with the first sub I had is she often claimed to forget the safe word... and then asked to not have one at all. After a night of play, I would go to work and come home and she would be gone.

My problem comes in the discipline side... I used to have an issue with feeling like I had to rationalize disciplining my sub... And then as that went away, it was replaced with, when is it okay to discipline?

I guess I have a lot of standards... and finding a sub who fits into most of them is hard... I doubt I will find a sub to fill all of them. Am I looking into the wrong thing?

I still have minor guilt issues with some aspects... mostly discipline, but others as well.

I don't want to harden to the point of cruelty, but I also feel that I am being too soft and am not being taken seriously. How does one guide a LD Sub away from such tendancies like manipulations, whining, and defiance, without potentially jeapordizing the precious bond?

(in reply to Wolfie648)

Post #: 3

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 3:01:41 AM

Wolfie648

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

Decisions decisions. I'm a waffle are you a pancake?

Where's the pea?

(Pulp Fiction for those that really want to follow - Ketchup).

D (owner of j)

_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 4

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 3:12:10 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Just exactly why do you even want a submissive - as opposed to some nice little nilla who won't take you so obviously wayyy out of your comfort zone? The average submissive does desire discipline; which is why they seek out Dominants - and you found that overwhelming and overbearing????

I wasn't the least bit surprised to discover you're all of 21! Other than kink junkies, most people find the lifestyle because of unfulfilled needs in vanilla relationships. So I tend to roll my eyes at 20yo doms who don't even know why they're here, especially when confronted with "evil" submissives.

Other than it probably sounds cool for a 21 yo to swagger around with a self-proclaimed title of "Dominant", why are you even here? You sure as hell don't seem to be enjoying the personal relationships you've thus far found with fem/subs!

Focus.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 5

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 6:25:57 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

I have to agree with Focus on this one. The only thought I had when I was readng the post was:

"If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand"

I just don't think you're wired right to be a what you are attempting to be.

But I do have one question... what did you mean by this??

quote:

It seemed kind of awkward to answer to a cop because I didn't punish her...

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 9/7/2006 6:28:53 AM >

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 6

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 6:37:48 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Horadell,

Ignore the naysayers, great dominants are made not born in my opinion. First off, if there is lots of need for "discipline" and punishment, that is a sign of a serious problem. What we do is consensual, if you need to discipline someone to do this, THEY are not submitting. So the question is why aren't they? The answer could be them, it could be you, it could be some combination and it can often simply be inexperience.

Submissives in general crave attention, especially new ones. They are very much like children, only smarter and potty trained. Do you reward a child who is acting out with attention? NO, you let them know they are loved but you do not reward them with attention, that reinforces bad behavior. This is a serious problem in LDR because if they want attention and get a whole night of it by acting out, guess what they are going to do tomorrow?

Read the thread on abandonment by Riotgirl, as well as my response here http://www.collarchat.com/m_573607/tm.htm

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 7

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 6:57:54 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I can't even begin to count the times I have lost sleep (as a narcoleptic) staying up with her because she felt she wasn't good enough for me.

Any Ideas?

Horadell,

Believe her.

The alternative is to continue serving her. If so, your labels for each other are incorrect.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 8

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 7:21:55 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Believe her.

The alternative is to continue serving her. If so, your labels for each other are incorrect.

Ditto. You went in over your head, decided to take a break and then leaped into something ten times HARDER- a cyber distance relationship also with someone young and unstable.

Stop getting committed. Explore, find play partners, learn, take your time. There's plenty of fish and plenty of time to catch them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 9

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 9:12:36 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Instead of focusing on pleasing your partner, even though that's important, you first need to focus on yourself and try to discern what it is that you do and don't want. For example, you now know that you probably don't want a relationship where you feel you MUST punish and discipline (whatever that exactly means to you). You may have to go through a lot of submissives and trail and error to figure things out. Be patient and have compassion for yourself. Life is a learning process. Once you have a feel for who and what YOU are, you are better equipt to find a partner who meets your needs. By doing that, you will find that the two of you serve each other in the relationship.

In my personal opinion, the notion that you don't serve her is crap. If she were sick, wouldn't you make soup? If she were crying, wouldn't you try to make her feel better? If she we joyful, wouldn't you laugh with her? Doing these things doesn't make you less Dominant. However, giving of yourself to a demanding person who doesn't give back (in any relationship) is negative co-dependency. What you're looking for is positive...she gives to you, you give to her. she serves you in one way, you serve her in another.

That all being said, it is you who calls the shots. So, the better you can define what it is that you want and need, the more likely you will be to find someone who matches. If you find that a submissive or slave is making you uncomfortable, then they're not a match. Find someone who WANTS to submit and surrender to your direction. That reaffirms what both of you know: you are Dominant, she is submissive.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 10

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 11:47:28 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The alternative is to continue serving her. If so, your labels for each other are incorrect.

Do you not serve your subs by doing what you do for them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Just exactly why do you even want a submissive - as opposed to some nice little nilla who won't take you so obviously wayyy out of your comfort zone? The average submissive does desire discipline; which is why they seek out Dominants - and you found that overwhelming and overbearing????

I wasn't the least bit surprised to discover you're all of 21! Other than kink junkies, most people find the lifestyle because of unfulfilled needs in vanilla relationships. So I tend to roll my eyes at 20yo doms who don't even know why they're here, especially when confronted with "evil" submissives.

Other than it probably sounds cool for a 21 yo to swagger around with a self-proclaimed title of "Dominant", why are you even here? You sure as hell don't seem to be enjoying the personal relationships you've thus far found with fem/subs!

Focus.

To be honest, I don't find vanilla relationships fulfilling. I am usually less than fulfilled when not being empowered. The first time I dabbled into a D/s relationship, everything was... so much more fulfilling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

"If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand"

But I do have one question... what did you mean by this??

Unfortunately, the problem started when she wrote up a list of punishments, so that depending on how much she upset me, it would go according the the chart. Some of the things weren't a problem... but others on the list were out of hand. I told her this, and when I refused to go over a certain point, she went to extremes, telling my family I had raped her, going to the police, saying I beat her, that I had been forcing her to do things. Because I had refused to punish her the way she saw fit, she tried and tried to push me over the edge. After all of it, I feel she just wanted to be abused, not submissive.

If you are feeling like I wouldn't understand if you explained, Try me. My issues with some things are mostly legal. what is, and isn't going to far, so to speak. I don't want to let things get out of hand, as I have already had to explain to the police once that I wasn't doing what she was telling them I did... And oh was that a joy.

It really isn't that I don't feel right about doing any one thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Horadell,

Ignore the naysayers, great dominants are made not born in my opinion. First off, if there is lots of need for "discipline" and punishment, that is a sign of a serious problem. What we do is consensual, if you need to discipline someone to do this, THEY are not submitting. So the question is why aren't they? The answer could be them, it could be you, it could be some combination and it can often simply be inexperience.

Submissives in general crave attention, especially new ones. They are very much like children, only smarter and potty trained. Do you reward a child who is acting out with attention? NO, you let them know they are loved but you do not reward them with attention, that reinforces bad behavior. This is a serious problem in LDR because if they want attention and get a whole night of it by acting out, guess what they are going to do tomorrow?

This is why I came to Collarme.com, really. I do not have the experience. I don't have much to go on. I don't quite know what is or isn't all part of play. I don't want to do anything I am not comfortable with, just as I wouldn't in any vanilla relationship. I believe if you cannot be comfortable with something, why do it? A sub friend of mine pointed me here, to look for that guidance, and I have gotten some really good advice, so far. Though I have been questioned just as much. Both are good, for me. It made me think, Why am I here? what do I want out of this?

I am here because I want to learn more. more idea's, techniques, styles, activities. Sure, I could go out and spend tons of money buying all sorts of paraphenelia, experimenting with everything, and eventually I probably will. But before that, I want to find out first-- is this the answer that I am seeking.

Did everyone simply jump headlong into a D/s relationship and instantly know what they wanted? Did no one else feel nervous about getting into it at first? Did anyone else forgo caution and simply do everything they had ever wanted with no regard for the other? I cannot believe that there aren't any out there that ever questioned it at first, or even once they got into it. If you never question, how do you grow and develope? How do you push your limits? How do you establish them to begin with?

This, and more, is why I am here, why I am asking for advice. I don't want to get in over my head. I don't want to go off the deepend and do something stupid because I wanted to. I want to be safe about it. Thus, I am seeking guidance.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 11

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 1:34:14 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

What was on the chart for punishment for assuming she could bring you a chart of acceptable punishments and expect you to do so per her command?

When picking people to play with, get to know them first. There are several red flags you might want to think about before continuing further.

Read...everything

Use that uncommon thing called common sense

Get involved in your local community. Observe, learn

Sort out what it is you want. This will change over time but getting to know what you want out of a relationship is a good first step.

Establish some rules for how you would like to see things progress. This can be fluid and change with individual personalities but it is also a good foundation for you to start.

Hone your skills...find a mentor

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 12

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 1:47:19 PM

youllbeused

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/23/2006
Status: offline

Horadell,

Don't get so huing up on words. A Master does not "serve" their sub/slave. Yes, he provides for her, but what you described is "topping from the bottom". She was topping you, telling you what to do. This is very different from the sub making their likes and dislikes known or establishing limits. As I read further I saw that your first sub was unstable. Live and learn. There is nothing wrong with not being a Sadist. You will find plenty of subs who are not into extremes. Learn to look for them.

Good luck with the LDR. It is very difficult to control an unruly sub from a distance. The sub must have a certain mindset in order for a LDR to work. At least that has been my personal experience. Know what you want, accept no less.

Feel free to write me if you have any questions about anything specific.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 13

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 2:02:02 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

She hands you a list of how she expects you to punish her & you debate the contents???

This is what I mean... first of all I would never find myself in a position of dealing with someone like this but the first thing that came to mind when I ran this scenario through mind mind was taking the list, set it on fire & tell her this is what I think of your list. I would never stand for anyone to define how I handle my sub much less have my sub write out her own instruction book.

Then I read further... you have actually had to explain yourself to the cops & family members about what you have or have not done to this woman? .... & you're still with her???

This is exactly what I mean by if I had to explain, you wouldn't understand.

Your young & you are going to insist on making your own mistakes. There isn't a person on here that is going to tell you that they haven't ignored good advice & have it bite them on the ass in the end.

What makes the difference between a fool & a respected individual is being accountable for your actions & not continue repeating the same mistakes & expecting a different outcome. It's your choice as to how you wish the be identified...

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 14

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 3:19:54 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

She hands you a list of how she expects you to punish her & you debate the contents???

This is what I mean... first of all I would never find myself in a position of dealing with someone like this but the first thing that came to mind when I ran this scenario through mind mind was taking the list, set it on fire & tell her this is what I think of your list. I would never stand for anyone to define how I handle my sub much less have my sub write out her own instruction book.

Then I read further... you have actually had to explain yourself to the cops & family members about what you have or have not done to this woman? .... & you're still with her???

This is exactly what I mean by if I had to explain, you wouldn't understand.

Your young & you are going to insist on making your own mistakes. There isn't a person on here that is going to tell you that they haven't ignored good advice & have it bite them on the ass in the end.

What makes the difference between a fool & a respected individual is being accountable for your actions & not continue repeating the same mistakes & expecting a different outcome. It's your choice as to how you wish the be identified...

You misunderstood, I think. Partly due to my quick response, and lack of better wording. When she handed me the list, I didn't as much debate what was on it, as much as tell her, No, it wouldn't happen. She figured she could simply push me to that. It was my first experience in a D/s relationship, and I had absolutely 0 guidance. I wasn't sure what to expect. I had taken her making a list as something of a suggestion, helpful advice as she had apparantly been into it longer than me. With no other guidance...

When she got the cops involved I cut my ties with her.

As far as not being a sadist... That is probably true. I have always had a little fear in sadism, letting it get out of hand. There is a history of violence in my family and I do not want to turn into a beater just because some unruly abuse junky wanted me to. That has not stopped me from the occasional spanking or flogging, but I could not share her with my friends, I could not mutilate her body, cutting excessively, I could not beat her. There were a few others that just seemed dangerous without proper preperation, choking, for example, intentional poisoning, to make sick and not kill... she literally, in my eyes, wanted an abuser.

I told her she wouldn't get one and if she couldn't deal with that, to leave. She agreed to stay, figuring to use my family history of abuse to push me over the edge against her.

As of now, That is what I came here to do. To get into the community, to learn, to grow, to develope, and to find a mentor.

since posting last night, I have seen a few things differently in my current LDR... and have started taken measures to correct a few things I have been unwilling to notice. I do thank those who have questioned me just as much as those who have offered advice. One cannot develope equally without questioning oneself.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 15

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 3:35:49 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

Just so you know...

You don't have to ever raise a hand much less your voice to be a good & effective dominant.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 16

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 3:44:19 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

And I didn't plan to. I don't think there is anything wrong with play, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Yelling doesn't get anyone anywhere, and obedience from fear only lasts so long. Beat a dog into submission and it will eventually bite back, Earn submission through respect and it will last a lifetime.

I cant quite remember who said it, but I took it as words to live by.

This is exactly the reason, however, that I am looking for a mentor. I am afraid to let things get out of hand and become someone, something, I don't, and never did, want to be.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 17

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 5:06:55 PM

DomSA

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

Just so you know...

You don't have to ever raise a hand much less your voice to be a good & effective dominant.

I agree with this completely. I reward my sub for good behavior from extra bdsm sessions to shopping to a nice dinner on the town. And "discipline" exists in the form of closing myself off from her...no attention, short answers, bare minimum interaction although she is still must perform her required duties.

Now I will admit that we have been together for over 20 years and consider each other best friends as well as Dom/sub (as well as Husband/wife). So ignoring her for an evening or two really gets her attention. One key element is to set out the rules early and consistantly uphold them. Otherwise the sub will get confused.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 18

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/7/2006 8:10:50 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

And I didn't plan to. I don't think there is anything wrong with play, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. Yelling doesn't get anyone anywhere, and obedience from fear only lasts so long. Beat a dog into submission and it will eventually bite back, Earn submission through respect and it will last a lifetime.

I cant quite remember who said it, but I took it as words to live by.

This is exactly the reason, however, that I am looking for a mentor. I am afraid to let things get out of hand and become someone, something, I don't, and never did, want to be.

At least you seem to have the right idea. You might try a munch and getting to know people in your local community.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 19

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 3:24:19 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Crikey, it's no wonder I'm soooo sceptical of young doms and their motives for coming to the lifestyle prematurely!

How do you square this from your OP:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell
Part of the problem is the first Sub I was with had this overwhelming and overbearing need for discipline, and as it was my first experience in a D/s relationship.... <snip>

With this:

quote:

To be honest, I don't find vanilla relationships fulfilling. I am usually less than fulfilled when not being empowered. The first time I dabbled into a D/s relationship, everything was... so much more fulfilling.

Looking at some of your other responses here, you seem bright enough but, and it's not the first time I've bent a few noses out of joint in saying this, you are sooo not ready to responsibly take charge of another individual until you're mature enough to have your own shit together! I'm curious, just exactly how many nilla relationships can a 21yo have experienced, and to what degree, before concluding they're unfulfilling?

Mate, you're *young*, you should be out having fun and generally enjoying life! Go do that, even be irresponsible in some way in order to experience that everything comes at a cost! What any young dom needs first is to learn responsibility and acquire wisdom and maturity.... You do that through a job, your own home, managing finances and maybe even a long term relationship, even kids. And you especially learn through how you react to your own mistakes.

Once you've had a taste of all, or most, of the above, go take another look at submissives and their unique qualities *AND needs* because then you'll be able to make informed decisions as to whether this is what you want.

Right now, I'm so sceptical (and cynical) of all young doms as to believe they only come here on an ego trip or to actually build up their self-esteem. That they think it's about getting all the action they want on demand from their girl, who isn't allowed to refuse! Owning a sub is hard work - for Dom and sub alike. And you've actually been finding that out - are you sure you wanna be here?

Focus.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 20

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