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RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 4:03:17 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Ignore the naysayers, great dominants are made not born in my opinion.

I always crack up at this crack-pot theory! It fits well with that nineties new age crap that you can be anything you want blah blah.... Everytime I read this kind of statement, I think of the late (and ultra large) John Candy in "Who's Harry Crumb?" - where he was in "disguise" as a jockey!

No-one really knows but there absolutely hasta be some form of genetic influence that leads us to the life choices we make. Just as Candy could never train to be a jockey, a jockey can't just "decide" to train to be, for eg, a heavy-weight weight-lifting competitor! Both have gotta have some genetics working for them from birth!

If you (or CD) wanna believe lifestyle "roles" are nothing more than choosing a costume, fine! You should "choose" to be a sub for awhile, in order to get a grasp of what you're actually and supposedly seeking. Hell, while you're at it, why not "choose" to be gay - nothing like a well-rounded experience.... lol. But if you'd rather concentrate on being "made" into a *great dom*, maybe somewhere in America there's a "dom school" replete with diplomas et al.

Focus.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 21

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 6:29:59 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Crikey, it's no wonder I'm soooo sceptical of young doms and their motives for coming to the lifestyle prematurely!

How do you square this from your OP:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell
Part of the problem is the first Sub I was with had this overwhelming and overbearing need for discipline, and as it was my first experience in a D/s relationship.... <snip>

With this:

quote:

To be honest, I don't find vanilla relationships fulfilling. I am usually less than fulfilled when not being empowered. The first time I dabbled into a D/s relationship, everything was... so much more fulfilling.

Looking at some of your other responses here, you seem bright enough but, and it's not the first time I've bent a few noses out of joint in saying this, you are sooo not ready to responsibly take charge of another individual until you're mature enough to have your own shit together! I'm curious, just exactly how many nilla relationships can a 21yo have experienced, and to what degree, before concluding they're unfulfilling?

Mate, you're *young*, you should be out having fun and generally enjoying life! Go do that, even be irresponsible in some way in order to experience that everything comes at a cost! What any young dom needs first is to learn responsibility and acquire wisdom and maturity.... You do that through a job, your own home, managing finances and maybe even a long term relationship, even kids. And you especially learn through how you react to your own mistakes.

Once you've had a taste of all, or most, of the above, go take another look at submissives and their unique qualities *AND needs* because then you'll be able to make informed decisions as to whether this is what you want.

Right now, I'm so sceptical (and cynical) of all young doms as to believe they only come here on an ego trip or to actually build up their self-esteem. That they think it's about getting all the action they want on demand from their girl, who isn't allowed to refuse! Owning a sub is hard work - for Dom and sub alike. And you've actually been finding that out - are you sure you wanna be here?

Focus.

I know you have very valid points Focus. How could anyone possibly have their life together at 21? How can a guy at 21 possibly know that Vanilla relationships simply don't feel like he wants them to?

Does it only work for Doms? Why is it okay, for a sub or a slave to be 18, 19, sometimes younger, depending on the person. How can they possibly know that their vanilla lifestyles are unfulfilling?

I see your logic, but I see its flaw. Each person, each case, must be taken, and looked at, and analyzed.

Not all 21 years olds may know, This is what I want. This is the life I want to lead.You are very right in saying most young Dom's just want a power trip, an ego boost. Most, not all. If you want to openly shoo me away from the lifestyle because I am young, I understand. I'm the new kid on the block, and everyone always shuns the new kid.

Listen Focus. You say that unless someone has responsibilities (home, finances, LTR, Kids) they cannot possibly know if they want to be a Dom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Ignore the naysayers, great dominants are made not born in my opinion.

I always crack up at this crack-pot theory! It fits well with that nineties new age crap that you can be anything you want blah blah.... Everytime I read this kind of statement, I think of the late (and ultra large) John Candy in "Who's Harry Crumb?" - where he was in "disguise" as a jockey!

No-one really knows but there absolutely hasta be some form of genetic influence that leads us to the life choices we make. Just as Candy could never train to be a jockey, a jockey can't just "decide" to train to be, for eg, a heavy-weight weight-lifting competitor! Both have gotta have some genetics working for them from birth!

If you (or CD) wanna believe lifestyle "roles" are nothing more than choosing a costume, fine! You should "choose" to be a sub for awhile, in order to get a grasp of what you're actually and supposedly seeking. Hell, while you're at it, why not "choose" to be gay - nothing like a well-rounded experience.... lol. But if you'd rather concentrate on being "made" into a *great dom*, maybe somewhere in America there's a "dom school" replete with diplomas et al.

Focus.

How can you stand by your opinion that It is somehow hard coded into you that you either are or are not a Dom. How many heterosexual relationships must people have before turning Homosexual? if they have never been attracted to a member of the opposite sex, only their own sex, do they not have a right to explore and learn?
How many vanilla relationships must a sub have before being able to get into the lifestyle? If you say that, without having a multitude of vanilla relationships, a young Dom/me can only be here to boost his/her ego and is only on a power trip because he/she can not possibly know enough about life and cannot be responsible for another person.

To say, All, regardless of background, fall into that same catagory, is wrong. Shall we talk background?
I was in a vanilla relationship for four years, we had been split up for a month or two, and shortly after being back together, I found out she was pregnant (one reason we got back together). A year after that darling little girl was born, she springs it on me that it could be someone elses. Test proves it's not my little girl, but for the 6 months following, I was with her, and took care of the little girl I had, until that test, thought was my own daughter. Have I ever owned a house? no... I live on my own. I manage my own finances, work an incredible job.

I know that a vanilla relationship is not what I want. I am not here on a power trip, far from it.

I am interested with you're posting Focus. I hope to hear back from you.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 22

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 6:13:37 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

I know that a vanilla relationship is not what I want. I am not here on a power trip, far from it.

I am interested with you're posting Focus. I hope to hear back from you.

My own beliefs on what makes a Dom (or sub) is that it's a combination of both nature (genes) and nurture. For example, being born with the physical structure to develop and eventually be that heavy-weight weight-lifting competitor doesn't count for much if you're also born in the wilds of the most remote lands where simply surviving is your whole life. It also doesn't count for much if you're born within a comfortable environment with easy access to training facilities etc but you weren't born with the necessary work ethic for the training or even an interest in weight-lifting, either! But I am saying ALL of those competitors didn't just decide to do what they do - they had to be born with the necessary genes to develop into a large, big-boned physique to start with. There are equally many facets to a Dom's makeup - much more than simply choosing to be, like it's a career choice!

Which brings me to *you*. By my reasoning, if you've got what it takes to be a Dom, then not only were you born with it, logically you have it NOW! I'm a Dom which means I was born a Dom and I was a Dom at 21, too! I'm not saying for one second you're not a Dom, I'm saying you're too young and immature to make use of it's powers and *responsibilities* now! The skills a Dom uses most within D/s or M/s relationships (other than kink related) are life skills - the ones you acquire through experience. For eg, principles and a sense of justice and fair play are skills I incorporate within D/s all the time - any arsehole can compile a rigid set of rules!

The biggest beef I've had with your OP is that you presented both fem/subs as being "damaged" whereas I took a view they may well be "normal" - that it was more likely a 21yo was in too deep, too soon! Calling yourself a Dom is NOT an easy means of getting your dick sucked on demand - *everything* has a cost! In theory, a submissive could happily serve and please anyone but they specifically seek out a Dom/me for a reason. Any self-respecting Dom/me knows they have obligations and responsibilities to the submissives needs, too - it ain't just about being on a personal power trip. If you find a sub's need for discipline "overwhelming and overbearing", A) you ain't a Dom, B) you are but ain't ready for it or, C) the possibility she really was as you stated. But my sense of justice and worldly experience tells me there's two sides to every story and she's not here to put her side of it.

One of the traits that serves me well is also not necessarily D/s related. And I've had it all my life; I didn't "learn" it. It's that I've always stayed relatively calm and composed under pressure and your average "emotional" sub notices and appreciates it.... I say this because that's impressing me about you in this thread. I've certainly (and deliberately) put you under pressure and you're handling it commendably. The only area you're not cutting it in general isn't a flaw or even your fault - inexperience, specifically *life* inexperience.

And that is and always has been my answer to your question in the OP, when you asked "Any ideas?"

I've always said subs have it easier re age.... In theory, the only informed choice an 18yo sub needs to make is in choosing the right Master. From then on, she does as she's told. Granted, he/she also doesn't have a lot of life experience to make an informed choice, either! But they can still get lucky on that one choice whereas a young Dom/me can't continue to wing it without experience, wisdom and maturity. Doms lead by word AND deed; we make the majority of choices and all of the big decisions - that 18yo sub need only make *one* big decision!

If I were sole arbiter, there'd be no practicing Dom/mes under 25 at all! (Smart money says there'll be feedback on that statement.... lmao).

Edited to say even moreeee!

Focus.

< Message edited by Focus50 -- 9/8/2006 6:23:35 PM >

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 23

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 7:28:33 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

I actually rather enjoy reading your Feedback Focus. The way I look at is... I don't let things get to me. I am not going to let someone walk all over me. To be honest with you, It took a little bit for me to realize that I was. I have been a manager at my work for a while now, and up until recently, people were walking all over me. Last night I fired someone for something simple. why? Because I wanted to show them they couldn't do that anymore. I have been too laid back. I have too loose and free with everything. My sub has been able to manipulate some responses out of me because I have let her. did I hate staying up and talking her out of a tantrum? Not really. It was fun, and I got to spend some time with her.You are probably right in saying that my first sub was perfectly normal. She was 'normal' but she wasn't a match from me. There isn't anything wrong with not being compatable with someone.

You brought up heavyweight fighters, but I ask you this. How many heavyweight fighters do you know that didn't have a personal trainer? How many heavyweight fighters that were born with every possible gene, got in every fight they could, did everything they ever wanted to do, but were never guided by a professional, someone who KNEW exactly how they should do things.

I am here because I want to learn. I want to learn more about myself, this lifestyle, and why it is that a vanilla relationship bores me so much, but a D/s relationship excites me and keeps me both interested and happy. Do I have all of the experience to make all of the Dom decisions? Probably not. Does that mean I should not get into a D/s relationship? possibly. But with proper guidance, if I have an issue that I don't know what to do, I can ask. I can go to someone more experienced than me, and get help.

I am saying, now more than ever. What I am seeking from collarme.com is either a Dom/me to help me as a Mentor, or someone in a local group near me to let me know what I can do to try and find one.

To be completely honest Focus, out of all of the posters on this thread, I think that the ones that have made me really look at things in perspective are the ones that challenged me, you most of all. Thank you for the help and support, I hope to keep talking with you, and everyone else here.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 24

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 7:35:39 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

Hey there,

I am a bit new to the entire BDSM lifestyle, and I do not have much experience. Part of the problem is the first Sub I was with had this overwhelming and overbearing need for discipline, and as it was my first experience in a D/s relationship, I had a fair bit of trouble complying with her needs. It got increasingly worse over the following 8 months and eventually it ended.

Since then, I have been reluctant to get back into anything at all, for fear of another bad experience. It seemed kind of awkward to answer to a cop because I didn't punish her...

I have been looking for a few weeks now and finally got directed to collarme.com by a Sub friend who has been in the lifestyle for 10 years. she advised me to look for a mentor of sorts, to sort of ease the overwhelming nature of getting into the lifestyle again.

Right now, I am working on a LDR, but my new sub is a little... emotional. I am having difficulties discussing certain things with her, more out of fear of a repeat of the first Sub. From either not punishing, or not know what is a cry for attention and what is a need for punishment... I just find myself reluctant. I have talked to her about this, and she feels it isn't that way at all, that I read her like a book. I can't even begin to count the times I have lost sleep (as a narcoleptic) staying up with her because she felt she wasn't good enough for me.

Any Ideas?

Hello A/all,

My first sub was somewhat of a Drama queen. I was new to the lifestyle, and she thought she could Top from the bottom me until I did things her way.

The problem she ran into with me was a deeply innate stubbornness about the way I live my life.

She wanted to piss me off so that I would beat her savagely and then anally violate her. She tried and tried and tried and tried.

Getting angry is something which seldom has much of an impact on my behavior. I figured a heavily trained self-defense expert should probably keep his emotional responses to stimuli on a pretty tight leash. I politely asked her to stop trying to piss me off since it was unlikely to work.

I told her that if she wanted to be beaten savagely and anally violated, the best approach was to do what I politely asked her to do.

So she upped the ante and said she was going to give me her collar back (I was young and stupid) if I didnt do what she wanted. I told her that she would threaten me with that one too many times.

She did.

She tried the "calling me 19885 times a day to "fix our relationship"" approach, which didnt work. When I am done, I am done.

To answer your question. You are the Dominant, according to your post, and I would throw out to you that the relationship and where it goes is really up to you. In my limited experience with submissives, they do NOT want the responsibility of defining the relationship. In the words of my old karate sa bom nim (Korean equivalent of Sensei), to teach somebody you have to be an iron fist in a velvet glove.

My general approach is the whole "be nice until it is time to not be nice" approach is espoused by Patrick Swayze in the movie Roadhouse.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 25

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 8:10:27 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Hello A/all,

My first sub was somewhat of a Drama queen. I was new to the lifestyle, and she thought she could Top from the bottom me until I did things her way.

The problem she ran into with me was a deeply innate stubbornness about the way I live my life.

She wanted to piss me off so that I would beat her savagely and then anally violate her. She tried and tried and tried and tried.

this sounds almost identical to what she wanted from me. Had I less self control than I do... I probably would have been stuck in a relationship where she was Topping from the bottom.

I don't want to deal with someone who wants to be in charge, yet tells me to make all the decisions, tells me to be the Dom, tells ME what to do.

Thus, I chose not to. If there is one failing that I have, aside from inexperience as Focus has pointed out, it is that I can sometimes overlook someone walking all over me. Often for weeks, or months before I am able to look at it in perspective and really set things straight. Now I am taking steps to correct that, but I figure it could take time to eliminate it all together.

No worries, as many have pointed out, I am young. Just 21, tons of life ahead, and tons of time to do anything I want.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 26

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/8/2006 11:54:57 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Well I used an example of weight-lifting, not fighting, but the principle remains constant. Training is training, whether it's a work ethic or an army of personal trainers. So, using your example, are you saying that the right trainer and best possible professional guidance can make *anyone* that champion heavy-weight fighter, even a jockey with an obsessive work ethic? My point has always been that, physical or mental, you've gotta have certain genes to pre-dispose you to do whatever it is that you're good at.... The rest is then a matter of your circumstances and determination.

I just do not accept anyone can "decide" to be a Dom and so it is - it's a nonsense! Anyone can be taught to tie knots or swing a crop etc, even a sub, but not be taught the need to own and control another in all facets of a D/s or M/s relationship. That comes from within - you got it or you ain't! To me, being Dom is an integral part of my sexuality.... Just as I'm also male and hetero, I didn't choose to be a Dom, I was chosen! Same as gays or heteros - all are *chosen* to be. You can "buck the system" and deliberately go the other way, but it's unsustainable if it's not who you are.

Can't say I was bored with my previous nilla relationships so much as frustrated. All that equality crap and of me even accused of being some kinda control freak no less.... The nerve!

I appreciate your kind words but I've had a bit of practice at haranguing young doms recently and not all have handled it. You've done well and "experience" tends to take care of itself over time. By all means explore D/s but don't be so quick to dive into a full on M/s relationship until you appreciate the responsibility that comes of an expectant and often emotional sub looking to you to always lead. It can certainly overwhelm if you're not up to it but fortunately Doms are genetically pre-disposed for dealing with their complimenting opposite. As are subs, who will test your boundaries seeking assurance you're up to the task. The more you're in control, the less they'll test - nothing more sinister than Nature's balance.

Focus.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 27

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 6:34:53 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

Last might my sub did something she has done quite often in the past. She acted out, immature and childish, telling me that she wasn't going to include certain things in the diary she started writing for me. She didn't seem to like the fact that when she started acting up, I simply told her to go to bed. She stormed off, like she has done so many times in the past.

Two weeks ago I would still be fearful. But as I start to understand things a little better, I feel more comfortable doing what I feel I should be.

Within 5 minutes, she had called me back to apologize. Telling me that she was wrong to have acted up like that and she was going to do it because I asked her to, and she does see why she should.

So now Here I am. It may seem so very weird for me to say this, but If you read back to my OP... and read my posts throughout, I personally feel like I have grown up a bit since then. I have reinforced the ways I look at things, and realized that the relationship I am in now was part vanilla, part D/s. The Vanilla part left me bored, frustrated, upset, and often questioning why I was in the relationship. But I realized I was there for the D/s part of it. Why was it part vanilla? Because I had let it get that way through a lack of control, a lack of discipline, and constant allowance of Topping from the bottom, through a mix of not realizing it and fear of what I did realize. After a good long talk with my sub, as that is all we really get at this point in our LDR, things are definately changing, and I am finding myself much, much happier.

The Truth, I need guidance. I would love having a mentor that I could go to personally with questions. but for now, This entire site is my mentor, everyone who posts here.

I have no doubt that this post is going to catch someones attention and I am going to catch hell for some of the things I've said... as I usually seem to catch hell from something or another that I said. I look forward to that.

Life is full of challenges, how we deal with each determines who we are.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 28

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 6:35:36 AM

DomSA

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

Horadell, I think you have demonstrated good restraint and responsibility in this thread. Instead of being defensive or attacking others you have kept an open mind. You seem to have the right demeanor to succeed as a dominant. There is another thread that I suggest you look at. It is about online books and lists some good books that would benefit any novice to read. http://www.collarchat.com/m_575201/tm.htm

Being a dominant isn't all about punishing and discipline. In fact many subs enjoy a good spanking or flogging and these should not be used for punishment. Instead they should be incorporated into your fun (play/scenes/WIITWD). For example my sub enjoys being spanked/paddled/flogged. Well, that's an understatement...she lives for those weekends when she can have a rosy red ass all weekend long. And she isn't afraid to request it if she feels it has been too long. Of course it is always my decision whether to grant her request but the point is that I could never use spanking as a punishment. All it would accomplish is encourage her to misbehave.

Dominants have varying styles...some are more strict, some more nurturing. What you need to find is YOUR style. And then find a sub that matches that style.

Good luck.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 29

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 6:41:57 AM

DomSA

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

Another good resource I have found is this site: http://www.darkheart.com/usalist.html#Florida

It lists various organizations in each state. Go to a meeting or munch. Get to know other people in your area. This is a good place to look for a mentor rather than depend on online guidance only.

_____________________________

Life is like a giant roller coaster. It has its highs, lows, sharp turns, loop-the-loops and crazy twists. But no matter how exciting, terrifying, thrilling or white-knuckled the ride; the worse part is always the end.

(in reply to DomSA)

Post #: 30

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 6:44:07 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomSA

Dominants have varying styles...some are more strict, some more nurturing. What you need to find is YOUR style. And then find a sub that matches that style.

Good luck.

You are right. I am working on defining my style now. From what I have read, I know my style will probably change. When I started my talk with my sub, as mentioned above, her first words were, "what can I do to make you happy?" I have come to realize, I love her very much, as many Dom/me's love their partners, and I will be sad if my style changes into something that she is not, and cannot be. I hope it doesn't come to that... but P/people often outgrow their P/partners, especially when they are young.

I don't want it to happen, who would? but I understand it is a very real possibility.

(in reply to DomSA)

Post #: 31

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 7:04:23 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Right now, I'm so sceptical (and cynical) of all young doms as to believe they only come here on an ego trip or to actually build up their self-esteem. That they think it's about getting all the action they want on demand from their girl, who isn't allowed to refuse! Owning a sub is hard work - for Dom and sub alike. And you've actually been finding that out - are you sure you wanna be here?

Focus.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one around here who's skeptical of young dominants. As a 23yr old girl, I am often approached by dominants in their 20's who are greatly offended when I explain to them that are simply not old enough for me.

Being a good dominant is something that takes time and experience and I simply don't trust a young dom to have the appropriate knowledge. I don't trust him to be able to safely do the sort of things I'm interested in sexually. I don't trust him to help me manage my schedule, my finances, etc, let alone to manage my emotional and mental well-being.

My previous Master (the man who did the majority of my training) was in his late 30's and had been active in the life style for going on 15years...After being trained by him, I now have a very difficult time dealing with younger dominants. They just don't have their act together, in my opinion.

They think it's all about kinky sex. Sex is only the smallest part of it to me! I'm not here looking for sex...I can find that from just about any young guy...I'm looking for a Master, someone to guide me and teach me. Someone who will help me to become the best girl I can be possibly be. I put myself in his hands and trust him to make me a better human being, both in terms of taking care of myself and in terms of serving his needs.

In order to do that, he has to be able to inspire obedience and discipline. Being a dominant is a very difficult and complex task. It's a full time job! Submissives tend to lean on their dominant for emotional and mental support. We NEED the structure our dominant provides us. We need the discipline he provides us (even if said "discipline" consists of nothing harsher than a verbal chastisement.)

Being a dominant is much like being a parent. We subbie girls, especially slaves, are very needy. We need order, structure, etc. And if we don't feel like you are providing those things, we may subconsciously act out to get your attention. It's your job as the dom to control these things.

Most of us aren't subs because we think it's the fun thing to do. We're this way because it's how we're wired. Most slaves don't do very well when they're on their own. They NEED a Master. That's why they've attached themselves to this Lifestyle. And nothing is more frustrating than having a Master who is a Master in name only and doesn't provide the support system that you need.

And remember, it's a full time thing...Your subbie girl doesn't stop being a subbie just because you're tired, you've had a bad day, etc. You're responsible for her, just as you would be for a young child. Sounds to me like maybe you just aren't responsible enough or mature enough at this young age to have a FULL TIME girl. Start slowly and build up to that when you have more experience.

A full time slave is a HUGE responsiblity. I should know! I know I frustrated my Master many times with my need for emotional support, and like a child I felt betrayed when he wasn't able to provide it, for whatever reason.

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 9/9/2006 7:16:59 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 32

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 7:11:49 AM

GeekyGirl

Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

If I were sole arbiter, there'd be no practicing Dom/mes under 25 at all! (Smart money says there'll be feedback on that statement.... lmao).

Focus.

I concur. I don't even talk to Doms under 30. There's no point. (Yep, probably sounds judgemental, but it's how I feel.)

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 33

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 7:37:59 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one around here who's skeptical of young dominants. As a 23yr old girl, I am often approached by dominants in their 20's who are greatly offended when I explain to them that are simply not old enough for me.

Being a good dominant is something that takes time and experience and I simply don't trust a young dom to have the appropriate knowledge. I don't trust him to be able to safely do the sort of things I'm interested in sexually. I don't trust him to help me manage my schedule, my finances, etc, let alone to manage my emotional and mental well-being.

My previous Master (the man who did the majority of my training) was in his late 30's and had been active in the life style for going on 15years...After being trained by him, I now have a very difficult time dealing with younger dominants. They just don't have their act together, in my opinion.

They think it's all about kinky sex. Sex is only the smallest part of it to me! I'm not here looking for sex...I can find that from just about any young guy...I'm looking for a Master, someone to guide me and teach me. Someone who will help me to become the best girl I can be possibly be. I put myself in his hands and trust him to make me a better human being, both in terms of taking care of myself and in terms of serving his needs.

In order to do that, he has to be able to inspire obedience and discipline. Being a dominant is a very difficult and complex task. It's a full time job! Submissives tend to lean on their dominant for emotional and mental support. We NEED the structure our dominant provides us. We need the discipline he provides us (even if said "discipline" consists of nothing harsher than a verbal chastisement.)

Being a dominant is much like being a parent. We subbie girls, especially slaves, are very needy. We need order, structure, etc. And if we don't feel like you are providing those things, we may subconsciously act out to get your attention. It's your job as the dom to control these things.

Most of us aren't subs because we think it's the fun thing to do. We're this way because it's how we're wired. Most slaves don't do very well when they're on their own. They NEED a Master. That's why they've attached themselves to this Lifestyle. And nothing is more frustrating than having a Master who is a Master in name only and doesn't provide the support system that you need.

And remember, it's a full time thing...Your subbie girl doesn't stop being a subbie just because you're tired, you've had a bad day, etc. You're responsible for her, just as you would be for a young child. Sounds to me like maybe you just aren't responsible enough or mature enough at this young age to have a FULL TIME girl. Start slowly and build up to that when you have more experience.

A full time slave is a HUGE responsiblity. I should know! I know I frustrated my Master many times with my need for emotional support, and like a child I felt betrayed when he wasn't able to provide it, for whatever reason.

you do have valid points. Trust me, I understand. To say, if you are under 30, you aren't responsible, it is very judgemental, but you are entitled to your own opinion, and I won't take that away from you. I can tell you that it would frustrate me if you told me because I wasn't old enough, you wouldn't even talk to me, but you know what? so what? There are lots of subs out there, and lots of Doms, who fit both our needs.

I may not be ready to own a slave. It may be a horrible thing for me to even try. I may not be ready to own a sub either, same thing.

You say that me being a Dom doesn't end because I am tired? You think it ever has? I am narcoleptic. I fall asleep sometimes and I cannot control that. If *MY* sub is being needy and I have an episode, she knows that I am the one with the greater need at that time. Just as if you had a Dom/me that was epileptic, or had a heart attack, or anything else. If you had a son or daughter and you were in trouble, they would know to get you help, or take care of you, even if they were in a full tantrum. I know, I have been there.

You are very right to say that subs/slaves are like children. Had it not been for my ex moving away after realizing I wanted more than she could give me, I would still have my little girl. Those of you who have been following, I consider her my little girl. I always will. Sure, I will agree with what people are probably thinking. Me claiming my experience with a 1 year old girl is not enough.

GeekyGirl was right when she said, if she wanted sex, she could go get it from some young guy.

If this were about the sex, I could go out, have a few drinks, and have a girl for the night.

I am not in the lifestyle for the sex, I am in the lifestyle for the lifestyle.

Its like going to work. If you work for your paycheck, you will only ever get you're paycheck. If you work for your business, you will eventually get your business. Anyone can go find a kinkster for the night. I am just taking a little higher aim.

edited to say more:

I have to look at your opinion like this. To say that all Dom/me's under 30 are incapable of being good Dom/mes, is like saying all parents under 30 are incapable of doing a good job. Or All bosses under 30... or all of anything that is any kind of position of power at all, has to be a certain age to be capable of something. I have personally know people as young as 15, thrust into mother/fatherhood. Not all of them, in fact the majority, have done a horrible job. Many have had help from parents, but simply wouldn't take the responsibility.
Others have had no help at all.

Think about this. As I have been challenged and called so many times through this thread, I ask this one question. How many Dom/mes have you known over the age of 25, or 30, or anything else, any other "must be this age to be capable", that weren't capable of handling the responsibilities? Just because it is more frequent for someone of my age to be doing this for kinky sex, for the rush, the thrill, doesnt mean all of us are.

I tell you what though. You keep ignoring everyone under 30 without so much as a look at them... I will keep doing what I am doing too. If I find someone who can help me out with terms, activities, experiences... someone who can open my eyes further into the lifestyle? Awesome. If Not? No big deal. Thats what the internet, forums, chatrooms, local communities, gatherings, all that is for.

you do what you do... You are entitled to it. But so am I.

< Message edited by Horadell -- 9/9/2006 7:48:14 PM >

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 9:34:16 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

If I were sole arbiter, there'd be no practicing Dom/mes under 25 at all! (Smart money says there'll be feedback on that statement.... lmao).

Focus.

I concur. I don't even talk to Doms under 30. There's no point. (Yep, probably sounds judgemental, but it's how I feel.)

I know a lot of dominants that feel the same way about submissives. I have to say in the case of Horadell, this submissive is old enough to be his mother, but she definitely sees some great raw material to make some young submissive a very happy gal one day.

Horadell, you are a very mature young man. We have another mature young dom on here off the top of my head that goes by the screen name QuietDom, another example of someone who is ready to embark on this journey into this lifestyle. I do not agree with some of the posts here, there are some people that are older than I am that act like they are two, and then there are some very exceptional young people that are equipped for the learning experience of D/s.

If this is the way you want to love another I would certainly not suggest a vanilla marriage with a bunch of kids. This site is full of people that are married now, or who had their marriage fail as a result of not being able to live and love in a vanilla way. It would just complicate things to settle down with a nice nilla girl when that is not the appropriate relationship for you. It is the last thing in the world I would suggest to someone who is oriented to WIITWD

Good luck on your path

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 35

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/9/2006 9:36:41 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

If I were sole arbiter, there'd be no practicing Dom/mes under 25 at all! (Smart money says there'll be feedback on that statement.... lmao).

Focus.

I concur. I don't even talk to Doms under 30. There's no point. (Yep, probably sounds judgemental, but it's how I feel.)

I know a lot of dominants that feel the same way about submissives. I have to say in the case of Horadell, this submissive is old enough to be his mother, but she definitely sees some great raw material to make some young submissive a very happy gal one day.

Horadell, you are a very mature young man. We have another mature young dom on here off the top of my head that goes by the screen name QuietDom, another example of someone who is ready to embark on this journey into this lifestyle. I do not agree with some of the posts here, there are some people that are older than I am that act like they are two, and then there are some very exceptional young people that are equipped for the learning experience of D/s.

If this is the way you want to love another I would certainly not suggest a vanilla marriage with a bunch of kids. This site is full of people that are married now, or who had their marriage fail as a result of not being able to live and love in a vanilla way. It would just complicate things to settle down with a nice nilla girl when that is not the appropriate relationship for you. It is the last thing in the world I would suggest to someone who is oriented to WIITWD

Good luck on your path

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 36

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/10/2006 3:34:43 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl

quote:

If I were sole arbiter, there'd be no practicing Dom/mes under 25 at all! (Smart money says there'll be feedback on that statement.... lmao).

Focus.

I concur. I don't even talk to Doms under 30. There's no point. (Yep, probably sounds judgemental, but it's how I feel.)
I actually pondered writing that as a 30 limit (which is about when I got into this) but since I've been in a few too many stoushes on CM lately, I decided to ease it back a bit....

Nothing wrong with setting your own limitations and that *IS* a judgement call, usually based on one's own experiences. But that's not to say the odd politically correct nazi won't take issue with you for daring to actually air such thoughts on a public forum just because you're entitled to! and

Focus.

(in reply to GeekyGirl)

Post #: 37

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/10/2006 4:14:20 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

Last might my sub did something she has done quite often in the past. She acted out, immature and childish, telling me that she wasn't going to include certain things in the diary she started writing for me. She didn't seem to like the fact that when she started acting up, I simply told her to go to bed. She stormed off, like she has done so many times in the past.

Two weeks ago I would still be fearful. But as I start to understand things a little better, I feel more comfortable doing what I feel I should be.

Within 5 minutes, she had called me back to apologize. Telling me that she was wrong to have acted up like that and she was going to do it because I asked her to, and she does see why she should.

So now Here I am. It may seem so very weird for me to say this, but If you read back to my OP... and read my posts throughout, I personally feel like I have grown up a bit since then. I have reinforced the ways I look at things, and realized that the relationship I am in now was part vanilla, part D/s. The Vanilla part left me bored, frustrated, upset, and often questioning why I was in the relationship. But I realized I was there for the D/s part of it. Why was it part vanilla? Because I had let it get that way through a lack of control, a lack of discipline, and constant allowance of Topping from the bottom, through a mix of not realizing it and fear of what I did realize. After a good long talk with my sub, as that is all we really get at this point in our LDR, things are definately changing, and I am finding myself much, much happier.

The Truth, I need guidance. I would love having a mentor that I could go to personally with questions. but for now, This entire site is my mentor, everyone who posts here.

I have no doubt that this post is going to catch someones attention and I am going to catch hell for some of the things I've said... as I usually seem to catch hell from something or another that I said. I look forward to that.

Life is full of challenges, how we deal with each determines who we are.

Your age is showing again.... lol Don't be so quick to dismiss the "vanilla" side of a predominantly D/s or M/s relationship. I regard owning my slave as owning all she is and, frankly, I often enjoy caring and sharing with her as equal adults, too! A man/Dom/Master is not an island and you should not dispell so readily the opportunity to just relax and be your other normal self. Marriages aren't just about sex etc and an M/s dynamic also profits from time out to refresh, recharge and connect at other levels. And time-wise, it literally takes the blink of an eye to reaffirm your respective places again.

And much of her actions you've described here would come under the umbrella of testing your boundaries.... The more unstable they are, the more your sub will test them. She's unconsciously seeking assurance you can control her and it won't happen if she's "bouncing off the walls" and you keep trying to find a better place to position them in the hope of calming her down. You put them where you want them and then put it on her to respect them or look elsewhere. That's not to say your boundaries won't need some fine-tuning if she's having a particular problem with something specific, but as long as there's a valid reason, I'll do that for my girl.

Focus.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 38

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/10/2006 4:43:36 AM

MrrPete

Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

Go to Google and search the following:

BDSM FL
BDSM Ft myers fl
BDSM Tampa fl

munches fl

This will help you find real time people, groups, munches, seminars.
Visit www.fetishexchange.org and read everything. What you need at this
point in time is knowledge.

Get active in the local BDSM community

Consider that you may not be Dominant

_____________________________

Awrabest,

Mr. Pete

Boycott Citgo

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 39

RE: Seeking some advice - 9/10/2006 6:02:31 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

My problem with the first sub I had is she often claimed to forget the safe word... and then asked to not have one at all. After a night of play, I would go to work and come home and she would be gone.

My problem comes in the discipline side... I used to have an issue with feeling like I had to rationalize disciplining my sub... And then as that went away, it was replaced with, when is it okay to discipline?

I guess I have a lot of standards... and finding a sub who fits into most of them is hard... I doubt I will find a sub to fill all of them. Am I looking into the wrong thing?

I still have minor guilt issues with some aspects... mostly discipline, but others as well.

I don't want to harden to the point of cruelty, but I also feel that I am being too soft and am not being taken seriously. How does one guide a LD Sub away from such tendancies like manipulations, whining, and defiance, without potentially jeapordizing the precious bond?

Question back at you: Why are you letting these girls dictate your dominance and control?

I see it that you're not taking yourself seriously and have yet to find your Mastery within. At least that's what speaks to me from your few posts here. It's not a personal attack but merely an observation that can certainly be changed with introspection and some self-improvement/confidence.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 40

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