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Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 11:42:54 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Interesting two word headline this morning headline in the NY paper - "BILL'S FURY". The issue is the 9/11 movie being broadcast on ABC. President Clinton joined a loud and boisterous group of liberal protesters from Michael Moore on down calling for the network to "pull the drama" if changes aren't made. Link: http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/bubba_goes_ballistic_on_abc_about_its_damning_9_11_movie_nationalnews_ian_bishop_________post_correspondent.htm

Parallel to this is the movie coming out where President Bush gets assassinated. The only dissenting or vocal opposition that I could find calling for that movie not to be screened came from someone identified as the "spokeswoman for the Republican Party of Texas" However, I hope that some of you may find other references just as vocal, but any from President Bush directly?  Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5302598.stm

But going back to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 I don't recall President Bush needing to call for a boycott or change to that director's view of what occurred that day.

Look, even if Senator Clinton (PLEASE -make it NOT so) represents the Democratic party in 2008 they have a 95%, the other 5% would consider a third party candidate, probability of getting my vote under the Merc - "No-Confidence Referendum" method of determining who to support with my vote. But I feel there is something incredibly wrong with either side calling for censorship.

Is this another example of there really being no difference?

To tin hat wearers; is this a conspiracy between ABC, a Disney Company, and the conservative right wing to subvert the expected gains by the Democrates in the upcoming November elections?
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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 12:23:44 PM   
juliaoceania


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Actually right wing zealots attacked Moore ruthlessly and boycotted his movie. Bush of course did not need to tell people to boycott it... that is what Karl Rove's job is. At least Clinton is not outing CIA agents to  quiet dissent. Bush is always kept from looking like the vindictive cretin he is.. ask John McCain.

I do not like Clinton, but I dispise the Bush Junta. All politicians suck in my view, as do all movies that exploit 911, I am boycotting all of them anyways

On Edit,

I will look for this story on another media outlet, the Post is not exactly what I would call "reliable"

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/7/2006 1:00:25 PM >


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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 12:35:55 PM   
KenDckey


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I personally think it is left wing hype.  ABC and the Disney Corp are generally supportive of left wing issues and I think this is their way of paying them back by creating hype so that more and more people will watch the program.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 1:01:05 PM   
CrappyDom


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It would be hypocritical if the right wing knuckle draggers didn't protest everything and whine and snivel about movie after movie.

Oh, and there is a slight difference between a work of fiction and movie that is passing itself off as being historically accurate.  Again, logic being a seemingly failing of the right once again.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 1:18:03 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

It would be hypocritical if the right wing knuckle draggers didn't protest everything and whine and snivel about movie after movie.


      Perhaps you could post a link to President Bush's attempts to prevent the release of "Farenheit 9/11?" 

      

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 1:23:35 PM   
CrappyDom


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Sure Rich when you can post a link of a Democractic president trying to prevent a release of a movie.  Since you can't, you don't have a point.

Try again.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 1:37:30 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

It would be hypocritical if the right wing knuckle draggers didn't protest everything and whine and snivel about movie after movie.

Oh, and there is a slight difference between a work of fiction and movie that is passing itself off as being historically accurate.  Again, logic being a seemingly failing of the right once again.


Uhhhhhhhh the article I read indicated that there were ficticious parts to it.  So why all the hype?

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 1:44:19 PM   
CrappyDom


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Okay, I give up, this thread is officially to fucking stupid to bother with.  If this is the level of comprehension here, no wonder you guys voted for Bush twice...

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 2:05:43 PM   
Chaingang


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The difference is that no one actually wants to kill Pres. Bush. But if some other guy wants to do it...even as a fiction...?

The other issue is that this administration has spent taxpayer money trying to influence public opinions via media using very high-powered media consultants to achieve its ends. Personally, I am sick of the never-ending funnel of taxpayer money to its friends that this administration is so generous with - if you were one of the beneficiaries of that funnel you might even call it a cornucopia. How nice to have access to the horn of plenty while the downtrodden in America starve. Thank you Katrina and Pres. Bush, both.

BTW, y'all do realise that time is money and that money is time, right? When I say taxpayer money I mean the minutes, hours, weeks, months, and years (in the units of actual time that it takes to earn the money thusly squandered) that are funneled from the taxpayer to their better connected neighbors, individual and corporate. The Bush administration is an administration of vampires.

All hail the lootocracy!

This administration deserves to have every media bit about it examined and destroyed if it is found wanting. After what they did to Republican best friend Clinton they deserve no better.

All is fair in media war.

< Message edited by Chaingang -- 9/7/2006 2:10:20 PM >


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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 3:32:37 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually right wing zealots attacked Moore ruthlessly and boycotted his movie. Bush of course did not need to tell people to boycott it... that is what Karl Rove's job is. At least Clinton is not outing CIA agents to  quiet dissent. Bush is always kept from looking like the vindictive cretin he is.. ask John McCain.

I do not like Clinton, but I dispise the Bush Junta. All politicians suck in my view, as do all movies that exploit 911, I am boycotting all of them anyways

On Edit,

I will look for this story on another media outlet, the Post is not exactly what I would call "reliable"


It wasn't just "right wing zealots" that attacked Moore and his made up "facts" .....

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 5:37:12 PM   
juliaoceania


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Level, basically I am very tired of all the made up facts, especially muddying the waters with an event like 9-11 by "dramatizing" it. Moore's documentary was not about 9-11 anyways, it was about Iraq. This movie is going to sell drama as fact.... I have a major problem with this seeing that at one point Americans believed such things as Saddam did 9-11, and was going to nuke us, they have shown the propensity to believe any damn thing... including TV movies of the week on ABC

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 5:39:24 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually right wing zealots attacked Moore ruthlessly and boycotted his movie. Bush of course did not need to tell people to boycott it... that is what Karl Rove's job is. At least Clinton is not outing CIA agents to  quiet dissent. Bush is always kept from looking like the vindictive cretin he is.. ask John McCain.

I do not like Clinton, but I dispise the Bush Junta. All politicians suck in my view, as do all movies that exploit 911, I am boycotting all of them anyways

On Edit,

I will look for this story on another media outlet, the Post is not exactly what I would call "reliable"


Democrats urge ABC to withdraw 9/11 movie



By Richard Cowan and Thomas Ferraro 51 minutes ago

Amid an election-year debate over who can best defend America, U.S. congressional Democrats urged ABC on Thursday to cancel a TV miniseries about the September 11 attacks that is critical of former Democratic President Bill Clinton and his top aides.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060907/pl_nm/sept11_democrats_film_dc_3

I agree with you about the NY Post, Julia.  They come across like a semi-respectable National Enquirer at times lol.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 5:47:30 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I personally think it is left wing hype.  ABC and the Disney Corp are generally supportive of left wing issues and I think this is their way of paying them back by creating hype so that more and more people will watch the program.


So says this email I got today:

Does a major national broadcast network want to stain itself by presenting an irresponsible, slanderous, fraudulent, "docu-drama" to the American public?
Not if you and I have the last word -- but either way, we're about to find out.
The ABC television network -- a cog in the Walt Disney empire -- unleashed a promotional blitz in the last week for a new "docudrama" called "The Path to 9/11". ABC has thrown its corporate might behind the two-night production, and bills it as a public service: a TV event, to quote the ABC tagline, "based on the 9/11 Commission Report".
That's false. "The Path to 9/11" is actually a bald-faced attempt to slander Democrats and revise history right before Americans vote in a major election.
The miniseries, which was put together by right-wing conservative writers, relies on the old GOP playbook of using terrorism to scare Americans. "The Path to 9/11" mocks the truth and dishonors the memory of 9/11 victims to serve a cheap, callous political agenda. It irresponsibly misrepresents the facts and completely distorts the truth.
ABC/Disney executives need to hear from the public and understand that their abuse of the public trust comes with a cost. Tell Walt Disney CEO Robert Iger to keep this right-wing propaganda off the air -- we'll deliver your message:
http://www.democrats.org/pathto911
This story is breaking quickly. The bias of the "docudrama" only became known when ABC began circulating previews recently. Less than two weeks ago, 9/11 Commission member Richard Ben-Veniste confronted a lead writer of "The Path to 9/11" after watching the first half of the miniseries at a screening, but most of what we know amounts to bits and pieces because ABC chose to screen the miniseries to conservative bloggers and right-wing media outlets exclusively. Almost none of the Democrats portrayed in the film have even been asked for their thoughts.
But we still know enough, thanks to news accounts and crack research, to fact check "The Path to 9/11" as a biased, irresponsible mess. Here's what you need to know:
  • Richard Clarke -- the counterterrorism czar for the Clinton administration, now himself a consultant to ABC News -- describes a key scene in "The Path to 9/11" as "180 degrees from what happened." In the scene, a CIA field agent places a phone call to get the go ahead to kill Osama Bin Laden, then in his sights, only to have a senior Clinton administration official refuse and hang up the phone. Sandy Berger, President Clinton's National Security Advisor, called the same scene "a total fabrication. It did not happen." And Roger Cressey, a top Bush and Clinton counterterrorism official, said it was "something straight out of Disney and fantasyland. It's factually wrong. And that's shameful."
  • Another scene revives the old right-wing myth that press reporting made it impossible to track Osama bin Laden, accusing the Washington Post of blowing the secret that American intelligence tracked his satellite phone calls. In reality, responsibility for that blunder -- contrary to "The Path to 9/11" -- rests with none other than the arch-conservative Washington Times.
  • The former National Security Council head of counterterrorism says that President Clinton "approved every request made of him by the CIA and the U.S. military involving using force against bin Laden and al-Qaeda," and the 9/11 report says the CIA had full authority from President Clinton to strike Bin Laden. Yet chief "Path to 9/11" scriptwriter Cyrus Nowrasteh, a friend of Rush Limbaugh, says the miniseries shows how President Clinton had "frequent opportunities in the '90s to stop Bin Laden in his tracks -- but lacked the will to do so."
  • ABC asked only the Republican co-chair of the 9/11 Commission, Tom Kean, Sr., to advise the makers of "The Path to 9/11". The producers optioned two books, one written by a Bush administration political appointee, as the basis of the screenplay -- yet bill the miniseries as "based on the 9/11 Commission Report."

This is a picture of bias -- a conservative attempt to rewrite the history of September 11 to blame Democrats, just in time for the election.
Tell Walt Disney president Robert Iger that you hold his company responsible -- and that this community demands that ABC tell the truth:
http://www.democrats.org/pathto911
ABC is trying to use of the airwaves -- airwaves owned by you and me, and loaned to broadcasters as a public trust -- to slander Democrats and sell a slanderous, irresponsible fraud to the American people, and they're shamefully doing it just weeks away from Election Day.
The Walt Disney Corporation could have given Americans an honest look at September 11. Instead, the company abandoned its duty to the truth -- and embraced the fiction known as "The Path to 9/11."
But ABC isn't the only company pushing this gross revision of history. ABC has enlisted the reputable education and children's entertainment company Scholastic, Inc. to send 100,000 letters to high school teachers, urging them to show students "The Path to 9/11". Scholastic has also created a discussion guide for teachers to use to encourage students and their families to watch this irresponsible fraud and then discuss it in school. The discussion guide does not in any way point out the concerns and criticisms that have been raised about the validity and accuracy of the film.
We've got to stop this now.
ABC/Disney must face an accountability moment. You can ratchet up the pressure on ABC by sending your own letter to Walt Disney CEO Robert Iger -- tell him to keep this propaganda off their air.
http://www.democrats.org/pathto911
We'll keep you up to date as this story evolves.
Thank you,
Tom
Tom McMahon
Executive Director
Democratic National Committee

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 6:32:43 PM   
juliaoceania


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Thanks for the that other link Level. It has been all over CNN today also. From what I understand is that the movie's producer has stated since it is a dramatization they do not need to be completely factual... I find that more than a little disturbing... here is a line from that  yahoo story

'DRAMATIC LICENSE'
Executive Producer Marc Platt acknowledged that "there is dramatic license taken" in the docudrama to "render the program effective and accessible for viewers." Speaking to Reuters by telephone from London, he added, "We have no intention or desire to be political, to intentionally distort."
 
That really bothers me, it is very troubling indeed. 9-11 is not a normal TV movie of the week to be taking dramatic license with

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 6:48:44 PM   
Level


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I agree, julia. Show what happened (at least to the best of our knowledge), but don't "Hollywood" it.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 9:03:13 PM   
Mercnbeth


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This is so amusing at least I'm greatly amused!

Anyone remember the "dramatization" about the Reagan Administration? Mrs Reagan was told the same story about "dramatic license". It's just a movie, why all the angst?

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 9:13:02 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

This is so amusing at least I'm greatly amused!

Anyone remember the "dramatization" about the Reagan Administration? Mrs Reagan was told the same story about "dramatic license". It's just a movie, why all the angst?


That was not what this thread was about, and I did not watch that movie either, nor do I think it is good to play games with historical facts. I do not know which portions of the movie about Reagan was dramatized.. if it was Iran Contra I would have as big of a problem with it.. if it was about his personal life, I would not care, things like dialogue have been added to dramatize the life of Howard Hughes, and the Kennedy's, and also Lee Harvey Oswald. That is not so egregious, but dramatizing facts leading up to 9-11 really galls me. If you look up the other threads about 9-11 movies, I did not want to see those either. I find it distasteful

If the thread was about that movie and a misrepresentation of historical fact... well I would have a big problem with that too.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 9:34:01 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

dramatizing facts leading up to 9-11 really galls me.


julia,
This is what the thread is all about, why is this galling above any other dramatization? Colleges are allowing professors to teach that 9/11 was arranged by the government. Galling but not threatening. President Clinton was always too concerned about image. He could have and should have been a great President.

I won't even give credence to those who argue that President Clinton 'doth protest too much'. So what? President Clinton had a Republican House and Congress. The CIA and the FBI failed due to in-house competition. Enough blame is available for all.

I'm more upset because every dramatization of a Stephen King novel has sucked! I think the dramatization represented in Passion of the Christ was a bad homosexual snuff film. This is a drama based upon a government report. A "CYA" report after the failure. Maybe you are correct to assume that the general public will see this as fact. I think its a sad truth. Similar to sad truth of accuracy in the Michael Moore movie or Al Gore's or the tin foil hat wearers who believe the passengers and crew of 4 airliners and the people in the towers and the pentagon were killed by politicians representing the oil companies. Sad, but all eligible to vote.

I have yet to watch any 9/11 related movie or documentary. I won't watch this one. Some lived dramas are better left as fading memories.


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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 9:36:46 PM   
KenDckey


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Hmmmm   so the issue then is you can't dramatize factual events.   I wonder how many here that have watched movies, the history channel, docudramas, and so on and so on and protest every one of those because they didn't use the exact wording or they did something for dramatic effect or whatever.  Or is this just because it involves Clinton?   If they are all supposed to be so accurate, then why hasn't Clinton produced the tapes and transcripts of all the conversations?    Where are the transscripts of the actual events in movies like The Great Escape which is also based on factual events?  Where are the transcrpits of the conversations of Atilla the Hun for the movies about him?   Get real, they make movies to make a profit regardless of what kind of slant they put to it.

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RE: Compare and Contrast? - 9/7/2006 9:42:11 PM   
juliaoceania


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Lying about events to create drama is wrong... I tend to be one of these people that does not like movies that are not true to the historical record...call me a purist. It does not matter if it happened 5 years ago, or 2000 years ago

I have never defended Bill Clinton on this or any other thread. I am not a democrat. I just think Bush is the most repulsive politician I have ever seen. He makes me wanna puke in my Wheaties. I quit watching TV for about 4 years when he got into office because I did not want to see his weasle face. But that does not mean I am a Clinton fan. BTW democrats are not liberals (I know people get confused about that and tend to think in black and white). Bill Clinton was the best republican president we ever had...Ha Ha




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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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