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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 5:51:43 AM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
I agree with Whip on a lot of his opinions concerning Christianity, but then again, I am an atheist, so I probably would. 


Actually, my beef is with the Roman Catholic Church,
 
> But the point that I was trying to make is that if Christianity is superior
> and leads to greater moral character, we should not see the same level
> of barbarianism in it that we find on other groups and religions.
 
We don't see barbarism in the Amish, the Quakers, the Mormons,
and many Christian sects.  It is the Roman Catholic Church that
has been barbaric, not all of Christiandom.
 
> Someone mentioned earlier, cynthiamarie, I believe it was, that
> science has *mostly* overcome the fear and ignorance of some
> religious groups.
 
Exactly, in many instances it has been science not religion has
improved our behavior.
 
> But if you really look at it, religion has released that control only
> after having it ripped from it's teeth, kicking and screaming. Only
> when they realized that they couldn't burn every sailor at the stake
> for making the observation that the ship dissapeared on the horizon
> before the sail did they grudgingly admit that the world might be
> round. Even today we have fanatics that allow their children to
> die from lack of medical attention rather than submit to medical
> care. And even in our modern age, the religious right still tries to
> halt progress of life saving technology such as stem cell research.
 
Exactly!
 
> But yet the religious fanatics wish to force everyone to comply
> to what they think is right.
 
Exactly!

>  How did this go from Bush and porn to how bad religion sucks, anyway?
 
You don't see the segue between "Bush" and "bad religion sucks"?
 
 

 


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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 6:15:35 AM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I have never in my life seen someone point a finger at another because
they believed in a religion and accuse them of being in league with
the KKK and NeoNazis.


Julia, you are such a liar.  I NEVER accused you of being in league
with the KKK or neo-Nazis.   

Study the history of the Roman Catholicism church.  They were worse
than the Nazis and the KKK.  They exterminated dozens of peoples
and dozens of belief systems. 

> a person having a belief in Jesus as their savior does not equate to that.

Torquemada believed in Jesus as his savior, yet did things worse than any
Nazi or KKK.  He did not act alone but with the blessing and cooperation
of most Roman Catholics.   Roman Catholicism is a belief system much
worse than Nazism.  It is like Wahhabis Islam.  Bin Ladin asks the same
question you do, How can having a belief in Allah equate to Nazism and
KKK.




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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 6:21:12 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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Status: offline 		Whip, in addition to your other deficiencies, you have a startling inability to comprehend what people are saying.

julia didn't accuse you of calling her a neo-Nazi.  Go back and read for content and comprehension please, before you start spouting gratuitous insults and invective.

FHky


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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 6:43:57 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Unfortunately, "hyprocrisy" is a human trait, not simply a "Christian" one.

Would either of you please show me a religion or a society anywhere in history (of any import) that didn't have hyprocrisy, murder, war, or power struggles associated with any type of belief system?

Christianity is an easy target for you, simply because you were brought up in a Christian society, and because it's what you "know".

But what you are both doing is displaying an animosity that borders on prejudice.


Ok so Im not 'one of them 2'. And I'm not taking anyone's side here but to query your proposition  ("Would either of you please...") how about buddism as practiced by the Dalai Lama today? I can't say I know much about it but him and Gandhi  (just don't start on who is alive today ppl) haven't tag teamed and lead a war of killing a bunch of ppl for any reason.

But I guess that is why their beliefs aren't important.

Man this gun is shiny.

D (owner of j).



Gandhi was tolerant of other religions, including Christianity, which he had studied. As soon as he was assassinated India had trouble translating their success in throwing off the British yolk into having a unified country, Hindus and Muslims began to fight among themselves and split into Bandgledesh, Pakistan, and India... They are still fighting today. So there ya are. Gandhi is  one of my heroes. He threw off the British but he couldn't unify his country.

The world is full of people that are not Christian. I have seen people do wonderful things in the name of religion. It is a mixed bag.


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/10/2006 6:44:32 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 6:54:00 AM   
BrutalAntipathy


Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, for a racist with a thing for giving underage girls enemas, Gandhi wasn't all bad.
 
Have I mentioned before my dislike of religion? heh heh

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 7:08:51 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		Christianity is a cult that has engaged in mass
murder over and over again.    They have tortured
and murdered ***ALL*** others who did not share
their beliefs.  They even tortured and burned at
the stake fellow Christians who did not share their
identical dogma.  They did this for over 1,000
years and plunged the Western world into the
dark ages.  They tortured out of their minds and
burned at the stake anyone and everyone who
would advance human knowledge.  People who
believed Jesus was their personal savior invented
unspeakable tortures for those who didn't share
their exact belief.  Again and again, for over 1,000 years,
they have proven themselves the most intolerant,
most vicious, most cruel people on the face of
the Earth.  They routinely murdered and tortured
Jews.  They completely wiped-out and exterminated
dozens of peoples and belief systems.  Why doesn't
this register with anyone here???   Even the Nazis,
even Stalin did not routinely torture to death anyone
who did not share their belief.   Compared to
Roman Catholics, the Nazis and Stalinists were
compassionate.   When Roman Catholics wanted
to be compassionate, they cut your throat.  This
is Roman Catholic compassion.  When they weren't
compassionate they tortured you for weeks by
slowly burning you from your extremities.   Why
doesn't this shock you?    Like Mafia Dons they
make you an offer you can't refuse.  Believe Jesus
is your savior and they will help you.  If you refuse
to believe Jesus is your savior they will slowly torture
you out of your mind.   Gays in our society are still
feeling their wrath.  The Cathars were a good, peaceful
people.  So were the Gnostics.  Roman Catholics tortured
and slaughtered every last Cathar and every last Gnostic.
 
If someone refuses to accept this because I have made
a spelling error, their view is worthless.
mind. 

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 7:24:27 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have seen you post about your Christian past Whip, I am sorry for you that Christianity caused so many problems for you personally, but your bile duct at a whole group of people is again showing bigotry. It is hate-speak. I would say this if you attacked any religion. It shows intolerance and some zealotry.

I do not like the writings of Paul in the New Testament, because he was a Jewish zealot that killed Christians and he transformed himself into a Christian Zealot.. a zealot is a zealot... no matter what religion they practice. You are showing zealotry against others on this thread..it really doesn't matter what you call yourself.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 7:31:02 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

That is why I generally ignore your posts.



Actually the facts show that you generally avoid the more intelligent posters on this board.  The facts also show you generally only respond to those that are percieved to share your irrational and prejudicial values or those you precieve as inferior to your own intellect.  Unfortuanately for you...your ego of intellect is far greater than your actual intellectly capacity and more often than not you continuely make a fool of yourself.   You can be rather amusing...  but also very predictable and ultimately rather boring.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 7:40:14 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> I'm not a Christian so how could you be calling
> me anything in association with that faith?  He
> had it right, you had it wrong.

No, he didn't.  You have insinuated that Jesus is your
savior, and you havve been defeniding the Roman
Catholic church.  Anyone, who defends Nazism,
Stalins and/or the Roman Catholic Church is evil.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 7:47:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> I'm not a Christian so how could you be calling
> me anything in association with that faith?  He
> had it right, you had it wrong.

No, he didn't.  You have insinuated that Jesus is your
savior, and you havve been defeniding the Roman
Catholic church.  Anyone, who defends Nazism,
Stalins and/or the Roman Catholic Church is evil.


Your reading comprehension must fall off as you become angry, I was talking about the way you attacked CynthiaMarie in post 115 here are some excerpts

quote:

> Yes, their witch hunts, and war on demons and "heretics" and anyone else
> who committed "blasphemy" was horrible, the tortures inexcuseable...and
> none of us would support them in this if it were happening in the present day. 

You sound exactly like a neo-Nazi. The only reason it is not happening today
is the church and the Pope don't have the power to do it.   The Roman Catholic
Church has never repudiated torture or any of the dogma that led to the
extermination of the Cathars  and all the others.  If you study in Roman
Catholic seminary you will find justification given for all the atrocities.
You will find Roman Catholics doing everything they can to deny or
minimize all the atrocities.  They will claim today that the four inquisitions
that lasted a thousand years only tortured and killed a few people.  They
claim it was a good thing they did exterminating the Cathars and the Gnostics
and all the other herisies.   



quote:

> I'm Christian, and have disagreed with other Christians who told me
> to my face that my son being autistic was in punishment for my own
> past sins

I'm reminded of a member of the KKK I once knew who said he
disagreed with other KKKers who wanted to lynch niggers.  He
told me this to convince me he wasn't so bad. 

> My spirituality is very personal and deep;

bin Ladin says the exact same thing.

> what others think doesn't matter


You did write this did you not? It was not pointed at me, it was pointed at someone for believing in Christianity. I am not a Christian and you will never see my saying I am one if you look up every post I have ever made. Comparing someone to bin Laden for being spiritual is way over the top.



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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 9:52:18 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
[/quote] Sadly no, if you read it you would see that he is telling someone that they are up there with Nazis because they call Jesus their savior[/quote]

Nope, I never said that.  I have great respect for Mormons, Quackers, and Mennonites.  Cathers
and Gnostics believed Jesus was their savior, and they were good people.  You are too stupid to
have an intelligent conversation with.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 9:55:11 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Why do you have to insult someone's intellect to debate with them? I just do not get it. I have not called you any names, why the hatred?

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:00:16 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		Julia wrote:
> Comparing someone to bin Laden for being spiritual is way over the top.

I agree.   And saying it is okay to molest little children is way over the top.

I think spiritual people are great, so long  as they don't believe in a religion
that espouses torture, genocide, and the extermination of entire belief
systems and peoples like the Roman Catholic Chruch has espoused for
over 1,000 years of its roughly 2,000 existence.  I am not talking about
renegade Roman Catholics.  I am talking about official Roman Catholic
dogma, dogma championed by its infallible leaders, and supported by the
vast majority of Roman Catholics.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:06:22 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Why do you have to insult someone's intellect to debate with them? I just do not get it. I have not called you any names, why the hatred?


It's because he gets a kick out of it, julia. It's easy to be "brave" online. Say the same shit in person, and he'd be lying on the ground, crying like a little girl.
 

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:11:26 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		This doesn't make much sense to me.  We're now evaluating religions on the basis of whether Communism wipes them out or not?

I'm not sure where to begin with all the problems in this analysis.  You're saying that what you call the "weakness" of Tibetan Buddhism contributed to Tibet's conquest at the hands of the PRC.  There are several things wrong with that statement alone.  First, it's what's known as an unverifiable thesis, because there is no way you can go back in time and watch what might have happened if Tibet had not embraced Lamaism.  Historians don't deal with unverifiable theses--or, when they do, they get chastised for it.  Second, I don't believe Tibet would have stood up for a moment even if it had embraced the most militaristic religion on earth.  There were overwhelming geopolitical reasons why the PRC occupied Tibet--and will never relinquish it, for that matter.  Do you really believe that if the Tibetans had been a bunch of Christians, they'd be living in their own free state now?

And that brings up another problem: What is "weak" about Buddhism?  Isn't Christianity "weak" too?  Neither religion bases itself on the question of how to respond to inimical nation-states; that's not what their founders had in mind and it's an invalid standard to judge them by today.  You seem to be thinking of religions as though they were animals in the wild, and the one that survives must be the fittest.  That itself is about as un-Christian a viewpoint as I can imagine.  Jesus was not a Darwinist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Another point is the thought that mankind is "too good" for certain religions.  Or, at least, that's the way that some people would see it.

By this I mean that there is an evolutionary aspect of how (or even if) a religion becomes mainstream, or major, with substantial world-wide adherents.  While the Dali Lami is a Buddhist, the tradition of Buddhism that he represents is the Tibetan one.  If memory serves correctly, Tibet use to be the only country in the world in which Buddhism was the theocratic religion of the state.

Guess what happened when a more "ferocious religion" (belief system i.e. Chinese Communism) decided to move in?  While they haven't fully suppressed Tibet Buddhism, they are now reserving the right to name his successor.  I wonder if the new successor will be as more beholding to his religion, or China?

It is possible, over time, if the Chinese press the issue, and start moving in ethnic Chinese with their own beliefs, that Tibetan Buddhism could die out.  Such things have happened before.

The third point is related.  I've mentioned before that there is a synergy between a society or civilization and the major religion or religions of that civilization.  While you can admire the Tibet religion and beliefs, they also contributed to the social and military "weakness" that allowed the Chinese to move in and take over the country, and, depending on decisions in Peking, whether or not Tibetan Buddhism has a future.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:13:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		That must be it Level.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:44:00 AM   
Sub03


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Yes WTH, all people can be barbaric
 
 
Speak for yourself!!!  But even if this were true
which it is not, it doesn't mean a god-damned
thing.  Even if there was theoretical possibility
that Gandhi could be barbaric, so fucking what???
What the fuck is your point???  How does this
diminish one iota the barbarism of Hitler, Stalin,
Pol Pot and the Roman Catholic Church???
 
>  if given the right incentive to be
 
And one can equal a trillion if you multiply one by 
a trillion!!!!  What the fuck are you saying???   
You are not saying one relevant thing. 

> Sri Lanka, have you heard of it?
 
Seattle Washington, have you ever heard of it???
When did we start playing geography???

> Your attack on Level really shows who you are
 
It certainly does.  It shows I have half a brain as
opposed to a few others here who were born
ancephalic.  No, that doesn't mean born without
a penis.  That is not the head it refers to.
 
> if your response to Level is a show of your religion's
> "tolerance", it really proves my point.
 
That pulling a womens' breasts off their body and slowly
burning them to death over the course of weeks and getting
them to implicate their loved ones is the same kind of
barbarism twits like you experience on the Internet when
twits like you compare real torture with upsetting words
on a computer monitor?????
 
You've proved my point, you can't distinguish between
real torture, and a few upsetting words on a screen.
 
> You are really over the top.

No, Julia.  You are level are over the top!!!
 
I am not going to have you and Level diminish the atrocities
commited by the Roman Catholic Church by falsely claiming
every group has been equally barbaric.  Fuck you!!! 
 
I am not a pacifist. I don't believe in pacifism.  When I hear
someone spew this kind of shit, I am not going to let them
get away with it.  I owe it to all those slowly tortured,
mudered, exterminated and burned at the stake by the
Roman Catholic Church.   I believe in eradicating evil. 
When someone tries to defend Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot,
and/or the Roman Catholic Church by claiming every
group is barbaric, I will place them where they belong:
in the dung heap of stupid humans. 
 
It is precisely because I am kind that I do not take
kindly to people defending Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot,
and the Roman Catholic Church, which is the very
worst of the four.  Hitler just tried to exterminate
the Jews.  By-in-large he didn't torture them.  The
Roman Catholic Church exterminated and tortured
dozens of peoples and  belief systems.  National
Socialism lasted ten years.  Roman Catholacism
controlled the Western World for over 1,000 years.
You cannot imagine the fear, the despair, the
anguish, the horror inflicted on mankind by the
Roman Catholic Church.  If I were not to speak
out now in the manner I am speaking out, I would
be violating my religious beliefs.
 
 



I wasnt going to even post on this thread but the comment about hitler just killing the jews, not really torturing them---I couldnt let that one go. Hitler didnt JUST kill the jews, he put them into camps and slowly starved tem to death, they rode to the camp in boxcars that were locked, with no food or water and nowhere to use the restroom, there were so many packed into it you couldnt even sit down, they rode like that for days never stopping, most people died before they even reached the camps and the rest of the people would be in the boxcars with dead people, he worked them until they died and if they couldnt work he sent them to the gas chambers. He split up familys and killed women and children. He had them sleeping in the middle of winter in wood cots with no blankets or mattresses with 2 or 3 to a cot. He conducted experiements on them, he made lamp shades out of their skin. All these facts are true and if you dont believe me look them up. So dont ever say that hitler JUST killed the jews.

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RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:46:23 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Not to mention the medical experiments that were performed. I read a book when I was a teenage called The Butchers of Buchenwald , it was very graphic and detailed on the torture that some people underwent. Not all of them were Jews BTW, some of them were Christians too.

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 10:47:36 AM   
Sub03


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline 		christians, gays, hippies....anyone Hitler didnt like.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Bush administration collars maker fetish films - 9/10/2006 11:10:25 AM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Not to mention the medical experiments that were performed. I read a book when I was a teenage called The Butchers of Buchenwald , it was very graphic and detailed on the torture that some people underwent. Not all of them were Jews BTW, some of them were Christians too


The medical experiments were conducted by Mengele.  But you can't tar all Nazis with
the actions of Mengle.   Mengle was an exception.    His work was not publicized.  Few
Nazis knew what he was doing. 

The opposite is true as far as Roman Catholicism.   Everyone knew what happened to
heretics in Medieval dungeons.   All Roman Catholics knew heretics were tortured
till they confessed and implicated all their family members, and they were slolwly
burned at the stake in front of a cheering crowd of Roman Catholics.  As the moans
and shrieks of the victims filled the air, the Roman Catholics jeered them.   All
Roman Catholics could witness the "compassionate" throat sliting of those that
confessed and acknowledged their new found faith in Jesus. 

Yes, the Nazis treated Jews and others barbarically, but this treatment does not
compare to the kind of torture routinely dispensed to those Roman Catholic
Church accused of heresy.

Starvation is a horrible thing, but does not compare to the kind of torture
methodically and routinely inflicted on heretics by Roman Catholic Church.

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