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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:03:11 PM   
LotusSong


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Status: offline 		The last I heard, the divorce rate in the USA was at 60%

Why do you think it's so high? 

And another trend is couples having their children first then deciding whether to get married or not.  Is this really wise?

(maybe all this is not a 'trend" ..maybe it's been going for a while and I've just noticed- be gentle with me here.  I just want to know what's going on out there and/or "What the heck are you THINKIN' "?!)

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:10:43 PM   
Estring


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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't believe it is that high. But it is high. I think that part of the problem is that marriage has been brought down in importance in this society, equated as equal to living together. So people don't have any qualms about getting divorced. It's no big deal.
And another byproduct of not taking marriage seriously, is at the first sign of trouble or hardship, many people would bail out instaead of working to keep the marriage together.

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:12:03 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		What Estring said. 

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:12:45 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is the "everything is disposable" mindset. Add that to our desire for immediate gratification and you have.....a mess.

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:18:50 PM   
MmakeMme


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Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		Lotus, I think that a lot of us get caught up in the "romance" of the thing, not considering what the future might hold. I married my husband after just a year of courtship, and that was long distance and I only saw him on weekends. It was a hot affair, we were on our "best" behavior, and it was easy to remain "in love" in 48-hour increments.

As for the children part ... I don't know about that. My children are the reason I am still married to a man who ... ehhh ... not going to air dirty laundry in public. (At least not much.) I think the school of thought is that if you are devoted to the person you're with, and if the children are loved and supported, it doesn't matter if Mom and Dad are married or not.

There are families with two moms and two dads who cannot legally marry. I'm not for it or against it - I take people (and moms and dads are definitely people) based on their personal performance of the roles they choose for themselves. If they're good parents, fabulous - there are too many unwanted children in the world.

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:22:21 PM   
marieToo


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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

I don't believe it is that high. But it is high. I think that part of the problem is that marriage has been brought down in importance in this society, equated as equal to living together. So people don't have any qualms about getting divorced. It's no big deal.
And another byproduct of not taking marriage seriously, is at the first sign of trouble or hardship, many people would bail out instaead of working to keep the marriage together.


Im not so sure about this.  This may be true for those first-time , short-term marriages...Like the ones that some people have between the age of 22-24.  Ya know...nothing to lose, nothing to gain....Its not feeling right, so lets just part and be friends, kinda thing.

But I think in the longer term marriages, divorce is something thats been thought about for a long time, perhaps years,  and even discussed mutually before making a move.  Its a huge life-altering decision.  And I personally dont believe that the majority of married couples are quite that fickle.  Though I could be wrong.  

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:25:21 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I was married for 30 yrs, and it was Not discussed mutually before making a move.  It is a huge life-altering decision, and even worse when only one person makes the decision about it.

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Love like you've never been hurt
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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:38:49 PM   
marieToo


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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

The last I heard, the divorce rate in the USA was at 60%

Why do you think it's so high? 


I think its that high because long term marriage is not something that works for most people.  Monogamy is not something that works for most people either.  Not for the long haul.  Even if you dont have physical interactions with another person, what are the chances that we go from say the age of 25 till death, having every emotional and physical need met by the same person?  Consider that both parties are evolving,  and needs may be changing, etc.  How can we possibly know that this person will be perfect for us for the rest of our lives?  The notion of that premise, to me, is absurd.  (however I didnt think this at 26).  Thats the bitch of it.


quote:

And another trend is couples having their children first then deciding whether to get married or not.  Is this really wise?


I dont think it makes a diff.  We see the divorce stats.  The kids are going to be born and raised whether or not the procreators get/stay married.  Being a child from a divorced family is almost as common as being a child with married parents. 

quote:

(maybe all this is not a 'trend" ..maybe it's been going for a while and I've just noticed- be gentle with me here.  I just want to know what's going on out there and/or "What the heck are you THINKIN' "?!)


You talking about having kids out of wedlock or bdsm here???

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 3:44:05 PM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

LotusSong sings:  The last I heard, the divorce rate in the USA was at 60%


Well, no.  It isn't.  The commonly quoted statistic is that the American divorce rate is about 50%. Which would mean that 1/2 of all marriages entered into today would end in divorce, right? 

WRONG.  This is one of the great manipulative statistics we are faced with.  Consider:

quote:

[Taken from Barbara Whitehead and David Popenoe's The State of Our Unions (2004). Prepared at Rutgers University for the National Marriage Project. The full text of the study is available here.]

By now almost everyone has heard that the national divorce rate is close to 50% of all marriages. This is true, but the rate must be interpreted with caution and several important caveats. For many people, the actual chances of divorce are far below 50/50.

The background characteristics of people entering a marriage have major implications for their risk of divorce. Here are some percentage point decreases in the risk of divorce or separation during the first ten years of marriage, according to various personal and social factors: [a]




Factors 


Percent Decrease

in Risk of Divorce

Annual income over $50,000 (vs. under $25,000) 
-30

Having a baby seven months or more after marriage (vs. before marriage)
-24

Marrying over 25 years of age (vs. under 18) 
-24

Own family of origin intact (vs. divorced parents) 
-14

Religious affiliation (vs. none) 
-14

Some college (vs. high-school dropout) 
-13
Also, it should be realized that the "close to 50%" divorce rate refers to the percentage of marriages entered into during a particular year that are projected to end in divorce or separation before one spouse dies. Such projections assume that the divorce and death rates occurring that year will continue indefinitely into the future-an assumption that is useful more as an indicator of the instability of marriages in the recent past than as a predictor of future events. In fact, the divorce rate has been dropping, slowly, since reaching a peak around 1980, and the rate could belower (or higher) in the future than it is today.


a Matthew D. Bramlett and William D. Mosher, Cohabitation, Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage in the United States, National Center for Health Statistics, Vital and Health Statistics, 23 (22), 2002. The risks are calculated for women only.
b Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing and Duration of Marriages and Divorces, 1996," Current Population Reports, P70-80, Washington, DC: US Census Bureau, 2002. 


So if you are a reasonably well-educated person with some college or more, you come from parents who are intact (married or stable living together) and marry after age twenty-five without having a baby first, your chances of divorce are low.  Add in a relatively modest income ($50K a year) and the divorce rate drops even more.  If you are religious, even more.

quote:

LotusSong:  And another trend is couples having their children first then deciding whether to get married or not.  Is this really wise?


well not wise if you look at the statistics.

E.


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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 4:55:52 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

You talking about having kids out of wedlock or bdsm here???

Nope... not BDSM,..just the general public.

It would scare me to death to have  like 3 kids and no binding contract.  If someone wanted me to have his kids.. you bet your buns there would be a contract (marriage license)  I know it's no guarantee.. but the kids would have a last name and he would have to think twice about loosing half his bank to walk out the door.  I just see that the guy could just walk away and there you are..   I think I've been watching way to much Maury "You ARE/NOT the Daddy!" segments. (this is what prompted me to do this thread.)

Now this will blow you away (maybe).  At one time, your religious beliefs FORBID divorce.  If you got married in the Catholic church..you had better be damned certain..because there was no divorce.  Divorce meant ex-communication.  

When I was 19, I got engaged after a month and married after 7 months.   I didn't realize how risky that was.  But I knew it all back then.  I'm thankful I have a good and forgiving man.  We had our flux, ebbs and flows.  but through it all.. it is love that has to bind you.  Because people DO change.  And it isn't all roses. You talk and keep talking. You have silent times.. you give each other space and you come together again.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/8/2006 4:58:42 PM >

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 4:57:51 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Look how society has changed over the years.  We used to live in a country where you could live well on one paycheck.
Now nobody can.  Which means the house isn't getting the attention it needs...your partner and the kids.
Essentially everything has gone down a notch including communication for those who even know how to communicate to begin with.
How many truly listen to their partner?
There are so many factors.

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 5:10:57 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Factors 


Percent Decrease

in Risk of Divorce

Annual income over $50,000 (vs. under $25,000)   Yup
-30

Having a baby seven months or more after marriage (vs. before marriage)   No Kids
-24

Marrying over 25 years of age (vs. under 18) 
-24   I was 20, He was 27
Own family of origin intact (vs. divorced parents) 
-14  Yup.   Both of ours were still together.

Religious affiliation (vs. none) 
-14   Same religion

Some college (vs. high-school dropout) 
-13   Yup.. a couple years each.


Good post there.. I appreciate it.

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 5:18:27 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think that's what happens when you get married because you're "supposed to". Also, while I'm not sure of the statistics, but most divorced people end up remarrying, most of which tend to last I believe, and of the percentage that don't - they get remarried.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 9/8/2006 5:19:42 PM >

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 6:14:34 PM   
Estring


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

I think that's what happens when you get married because you're "supposed to". Also, while I'm not sure of the statistics, but most divorced people end up remarrying, most of which tend to last I believe, and of the percentage that don't - they get remarried.


Actually, second marriages tend to end even sooner than most first marriages. I don't see much promotion of marriage as something you "must" do these days. Many people seem to think that marriage is an outdated institution. Ironically, the only group that is promoting marriage as a desirable thing, is gay activists. Go figure. 

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 6:48:11 PM   
Rayne58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I was married for 30 yrs, and it was Not discussed mutually before making a move. It is a huge life-altering decision, and even worse when only one person makes the decision about it.


I was married for 23 years, and I was the one who made the move, to save my health and my sanity. The day I moved out I stood in my new living room and bawled my eyes out, but afterwards it was like a great weight had lifted off my shoulders.

That was in April 2002. I got my final divorce papers in November 2005. Master and I are marrying in December this year, after living together for nearly 3 years.

I never lived with my ex until we actually married. I was 19 he was 22. We were each other's first sexual partners, and it stayed that way throughout the marriage. He was very selfish in bed, and clueless on how to be intimate outside of the bedroom. I thought in my naievety(sp) that I was doing something wrong, why did he not want to kiss and cuddle me? I only got touched when he wanted sex.

We had two children, almost 5 years apart. After the second one I had post partum depression, which made me switch off sexually. I knew I did not love him by then, and felt guilty and trapped. I stayed because of the kids, and because I was scared of being alone. It took just one putdown on top of all the others I'd endured to make me say what should have been said years ago.

Master builds me up and encourages me, He is affectionate and loving to me. I'm definitely not broken in the sexual department! To Him my submissiveness is appreciated, not used against me. This marriage is going to be one that lasts for however long we are given to be together

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 7:03:43 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		As for marriage, there are few who have a necessity or a dependance to stay together. It's less difficult to divorce these days and many take the easy way out of a problem. After all, most people have financial means to move out and drive there own car to realitives house or a hotel followed by getting there own place.

When it comes to having kids, I don't think that marriage is a necessity but only the responsibility to be a parent.  

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 7:08:52 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong


It would scare me to death to have  like 3 kids and no binding contract.  If someone wanted me to have his kids.. you bet your buns there would be a contract (marriage license)  I know it's no guarantee.. but the kids would have a last name and he would have to think twice about loosing half his bank to walk out the door.  I just see that the guy could just walk away and there you are..   I think I've been watching way to much Maury "You ARE/NOT the Daddy!" segments. (this is what prompted me to do this thread.)


I would agree about the security part of this.  But would you really want your man to stay only because he was worried about loosing 'half his bank'.  :::spits on ground:::: Let the loser go. I wouldnt want him if that was his reason for staying.

Thankfully, there are laws in place at present day that do not allow men (or women for that matter) to simply walk away from the responsibility of supporting their children.  Married or not, both parties are held to their financial obligation to their children. 


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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 7:19:54 PM   
eroticangel


Posts: 272
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline 		i think divorce is too easy.....and mariage too....maybe we should have to take a marriage course as we do a driving course....maybe it should be illegal before 25....maybe we have to get back to morals and bringing God back into school and state. maybe Americans morals are slipping and with that our ability to work at a marriage...not run away from it.

roe

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 7:24:48 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Thankfully, there are laws in place at present day that do not allow men (or women for that matter) to simply walk away from the responsibility of supporting their children. Married or not, both parties are held to their financial obligation to their children.


I pay child support for my daughter and will continue to do so until she turns 19, gets a job or goes to university and gets a living allowance. She has lived with my ex since she was 14 (she is now 18). It is only a small amount per month, which goes through the tax department and is based on my income (carer's pension don't pay much ) and goes to my ex's bank account. I do make a point of sending a bit of money straight to her account though.....at least she has that to buy the little things that young girls need

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RE: THE DIVORCE RATE - 9/8/2006 8:31:25 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		When I was on vacation and I saw on some TV program a *professional* in relationships who came to proclaim that women who work outside of the home are more likely to have affairs and cause hostlity at home as opposed to *devoted* homemakers. This was his number one reason for divorces and he supposedly had data to back up his claim.

To me a woman's job has nothing to do with the relationship she has with her husband. If the pair aren't getting along then its not the job to blame its the two people involved. Towards the end of the program it was stated that this professional was part of one of the larger Christian advocacy groups found in the US.

They so desperately want to force us back to the 1950's (or earlier) that they would claim just about anything.

Divorce happens because  two people can't get along, usually from differences in personality or  someone is cheating. Although there are several other factors too, I don't think you can point the finger at just one spouse or reason.

~Lashra


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(in reply to LotusSong)
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