Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 3:32:01 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060908/ap_on_go_co/iraq_report

We can all discount this propaganda, we all know how biased the Republican controlled congress is...

A second part of the report concluded that false information from the Iraqi National Congress, an anti-Saddam group led by then-exile Ahmed Chalabi, was used to support key U.S. intelligence assessments on Iraq.
It said U.S. intelligence agents put out numerous red flags about the reliability of INC sources but the intelligence community made a "serious error" and used one source who concocted a story that Iraq was building mobile biological weapons laboratories.
The report also said that in 2002 the National Security Council directed that funding for the INC should continue "despite warnings from both the CIA, which terminated its relationship with the INC in December 1996, and the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency), that the INC was penetrated by hostile intelligence services, including the Iranians."
According to the report, postwar findings indicate that Saddam "was distrustful of al-Qaida and viewed Islamic extremists as a threat to his regime."
It said al-Zarqawi was in Baghdad from May until late November 2002. But "postwar information indicates that Saddam Hussein attempted, unsuccessfully, to locate and capture al-Zarqawi and that the regime did not have a relationship with, harbor, or turn a blind eye toward Zarqawi."
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 3:42:26 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Seems to me the Republicans in Congress must be getting pretty tired of GWB too then to have done a hatchet job when they could have kept up the pretence a little longer?
E

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 3:52:31 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Oh but they can't!  The see the administation as sinking and the rats have to jump ship.  They have sat on their hands for almost six years and everyone has let everyone do whatever they want including invading the wrong country and building a multibillion dollar bridge from nowhere to nowhere.

Now they have to pretend to be busy, the only question remaining is how dumb exactly is the American public.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 3:52:41 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Seems to me the Republicans in Congress must be getting pretty tired of GWB too then to have done a hatchet job when they could have kept up the pretence a little longer?
E


Somethings are so painfully obvious that it becomes self defeating to deny it.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 4:32:31 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You know I don't see any mention of the fact that every intelligence agency, whether it was American, Russian, French, English, or Israeli all concluded that Saddam had wmds. The fact that he either didn't, or got rid of them before we invaded, doesn't matter. We didn't go into Iraq because of any tie to 9/11. We went in because in the post 9/11 world, you don't wait until he uses the wmds, or gives them to other terrorists to use against us. It was an extention of a "regime change" policy that was endorsed by the Clinton Administration.
Saddam was paying the families of homicide bombers 25,000 dollars. That isn't considered aiding the terrorists? It isn't much of a leap to conclude that Saddam could take the next step and give wmds to them next. To not see that possibility is to be extremely naive.

 

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 4:41:36 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		       It's old news, dragged out for election season with a new cover.  It won't be long before we have a whole series of "revelations" about the Abramoff scandal.  It reminds me of the sexual harassment story about the "Governator" that broke for a day and then vanished until the LA Times rolled it out again a week before the election.

      I'm wondering if maybe the Dems shot themselves in the foot with the heavy-handed tactics against the ABC mini-series.  What if they piss off the media right before the election?

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 4:52:34 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It is funny that here is a good example of government exerting pressure on a tv network to not show something they perceive to be damaging (censorship, in my book), and there is nary a peep from the media. And nary a peep from all those on here who scream about all our rights being taken away. It proves once again that the left don't care about censorship if it affects views they don't support. 

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 5:14:12 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		       JMO but it seems like most calls for censorship these days are coming from the left.  It's one of the reasons they no longer get my vote, money or use of my pick-up to haul tables and chairs around.

      This could be interesting though.  Will the media put their hatred of Bush ahead of self-interest?  It would be very hard for anyone in broadcast media not to see the threat in that letter and it is my experience that reporters get pissed when threatened.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 5:24:58 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Yep that mean ole Republican congress is just doing the bidding of the minority Dems.

Come on guys, is this really the best you can do?

The report was prepared by a Republican controlled congress, either counter it with facts.

It is a myth that other intelligent services all believe the lies comming out of the Bush administration about Iraqi WMD but then again you watch FOX so I guess it can be forgiven.

http://www.isis-online.org/publications/iraq/usallieswmd.html

Despite the Bush Administration's assertions, allies of the United States did not fully agree with the Administration's assessment on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD). Prior to the war in Iraq, some foreign countries questioned U.S. assertions on WMD presence in Iraq. Now, some in the U.S. Congress question whether or not the intelligence agencies manipulated intelligence to gain support for the war in Iraq. However, the White House insists that U.S. intelligence on Iraq's WMD were fairly presented. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice said that the efforts of the Saddam Hussein regime to conceal its actions "clearly give a picture of a regime that had weapons of mass destruction and was determined to conceal them."1
The debate on Iraqi WMD continues. For example, Russia was not convinced by either the September 24, 2002 British dossier or the October 4, 2002 CIA report. Lacking sufficient evidence, Russia dismissed the claims as a part of a "propaganda furor."2 Specifically targeting the CIA report, Putin said, "Fears are one thing, hard facts are another." He goes on to say, "Russia does not have in its possession any trustworthy data that supports the existence of nuclear weapons or any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and we have not received any such information from our partners yet. This fact has also been supported by the information sent by the CIA to the US Congress."3 However, Putin was apprehensive about the possibility that Iraq may have WMDs and he therefore supported inspections. The Russian ambassador to London thought that the dossier was a document of concern. "It is impressive, but not always…convincing."4

French intelligence services did not come up with the same alarming assessment of Iraq and WMD as did the Britain and the United States. "According to secret agents at the DGSE, Saddam's Iraq does not represent any kind of nuclear threat at this time…It [the French assessment] contradicts the CIA's analysis…"5 French spies said that the Iraqi nuclear threat claimed by the United States was a "phony threat."6

After Secretary of State Colin Powell's speech on February 5, 2003 to the United Nations Security Council, the focus of discussion among U.S. allies changed. France, Russia, and Germany did not find Powell's "evidence" strong enough to support the U.S.'s stance on the Iraqi threat. However, having already questioned the veracity of the dossier and CIA report, they instead concentrated on persuading the international community to continue UN inspections.

Other experts said that the evidence is not sufficient enough to prove that Iraq has WMDs. However, what Secretary of State Powell did prove was that Iraq was capable of producing WMDs.

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 5:32:30 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps, E- you might cite a source or two that may bolster this argument, or perhaps as you reiterate, it is so prima facia that it is beneath question...........


I am a big one for saying what it is, in my mind, and that is certainly what it is, but is untenable, you see.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 6:08:12 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Perhaps, E- you might cite a source or two that may bolster this argument, or perhaps as you reiterate, it is so prima facia that it is beneath question...........


I am a big one for saying what it is, in my mind, and that is certainly what it is, but is untenable, you see.

Ron



Sources? Show me where the outrage is in the media over this tactic? Where is the ACLU? They are so concerned about protecting our constitutional rights? I haven't heard a peep from them about this.
There is a movie out now called "This Film Is Not Yet Rated". It deals with the so called "censorship" of the ratings board on movies (especially independent) that are being made. But when there is an actual attempt at real censorship done by Democratic members of Congress, where is the outcry? You need more proof? I don't.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 6:12:36 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
quote:

Show me where the outrage is in the media over this tactic? Where is the ACLU?


The ACLU deals with the real world and the law.  There is no law preventing the distribution of this movie, nobody is expecting the minority party to be able to prevent the majority party from allowing this bit of propaganda to be shown.

quote:

Show me where the outrage is in the media over this tactic?


Tactic?  It is normally the Right that is whining and bitching about something being too sexy, too open, too kinky, too irreligious, too sacrilegious, too liberal, too factual, etc. 

Besides, the ACLU is sort of busy dealing with things like torture and the violation of the right to privacy.

< Message edited by CrappyDom -- 9/8/2006 6:15:16 PM >

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 6:32:15 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		This is not an equivocable argumnent, the ACLU is not any mesmerantic, bottom line player in this. 

Perhaps we are at odds because my comments were antecedant to your prior posting, the one dealing withthe world's intelligence agencies concertedly in agreement with the WMD thing (which they were not, and even if they were , would not have made them any more intelligent)

Now, in terms of the next post, that may be what you believe and see as prima facia evidence that the left (whatever the fuck that is) do not care about what the fuck ever rights being taken away, which since the ACLU didn't jump on them immediately.

Well, now let us sit down and reason together, the only proof you really have about this, is that nobody who feels fanatically righteous about this issue has not put a slug in somebody's ass today.  This is the onlyr real proffer of proof in evidence.  This is what is referred to by some in the business as a moronic argument (please take the time to note, I did not call you and do not consider you a moron, ok?)

The equivalent argument is:

All dogs are animals.
Dogs bark.
Cats are animals,
therefore;
all cats bark.

While to the hot-blooded latin breast this is equated with tautology.
it just ain't so, E---

Sincerely,
Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 6:52:03 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Tactic?  It is normally the Right that is whining and bitching about something being too sexy, too open, too kinky, too irreligious, too sacrilegious, too liberal, too factual, etc. 


      Well, the Fundy Christians make quite a bit of noise, but it is the Left I most often see trying to prohibit some form of speech (or force a network to edit a film to their liking).  Does anyone recall the PMRC and the Senate hearings on rock lyrics?  Who was that radical Right-Winger who led the charge?  I didn't let his presence on the ticket keep me from voting Clinton twice but Al Gore lost my vote 16 years before I had a chance to cast it.

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 7:22:31 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Hey Crappy.   the report is 211 pages long.  this thread will be over well before I finish reading it.  the questions I have is about the Executive Order by Clinton that precluded the use of "shady" characters to work iin the intelligence community.

What affect did this EO have on intelligence gathering?

From the time that Bush took office till 9/11 was less than 9 months, What steps had the inteligence community taken to remedy the situation created by the EO? or as conjecture were they forced to rely upon these splinter organizations for intelligence?

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 8:17:54 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Kenducky,

You won't believe me but Bush CUT counter terror efforts when he got into office and did NOTHING to improve intelligence gathering.

On the day of 9/11 Rice was scheduled to give a speach that day about the threats facing America, terrorism wasn't going to be mentioned but the need for star wars was..

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 8:41:55 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		for some reason that one makes sense to me.  

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 8:54:09 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Rich,

One of the biggest reasons I disliked Gore was Tipper...

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 11:41:14 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

You know I don't see any mention of the fact that every intelligence agency, whether it was American, Russian, French, English, or Israeli all concluded that Saddam had wmds. The fact that he either didn't, or got rid of them before we invaded, doesn't matter. We didn't go into Iraq because of any tie to 9/11. We went in because in the post 9/11 world, you don't wait until he uses the wmds, or gives them to other terrorists to use against us. It was an extention of a "regime change" policy that was endorsed by the Clinton Administration.
Saddam was paying the families of homicide bombers 25,000 dollars. That isn't considered aiding the terrorists? It isn't much of a leap to conclude that Saddam could take the next step and give wmds to them next. To not see that possibility is to be extremely naive.




You are once again spouting discredited things. several high and lower ranked CIA folks said the WMD was BS. Almost all that info came out of Rumsfelds cherry picking inteligence agency that he started in the pentagon. Bypassing the much better vetting of the CIA and NSA and many others.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - 9/8/2006 11:43:43 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

It is funny that here is a good example of government exerting pressure on a tv network to not show something they perceive to be damaging (censorship, in my book), and there is nary a peep from the media. And nary a peep from all those on here who scream about all our rights being taken away. It proves once again that the left don't care about censorship if it affects views they don't support. 


Nary a peep except the thread you are replying in?
I saw this senate report and also considered posting it. And then I actually thought specifically of you, and the lame obfuscation that would ensue. You did not disappoint.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109