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Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 5:34:55 PM   
sapphirepleasure


Posts: 411
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Land of Enchantment
Status: offline 		Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 6:06:43 PM   
BreakingGlass


Posts: 565
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Spider-Skull Island
Status: offline 		I'm no better than a man, I'm no worse than a man.  I just am.

Having said that...not sure how common this is, but I'm likely to have my hackles rise if I'm ordered to do something.  (There's an exception for this if it's done "playfully," but if it's something he's trying to make me do "just because he's the man," then he's going to be waiting a mighty long time for it to get done.)  But if I know he'd like to have something done, then I will.  Which also means that, even though it's not my first inclination, if he wants me to be more assertive/top him/what have you than I'd normally be, then I will.  He likes to have me do things for him, and I like doing things for him.  But he also does things for me in that he gives me the opportunity to express this aspect of me.  So it kind of goes around in a circle, and it works for us.

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 6:14:58 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I consider myself a feminist, insofar as I have encounterd no empirical evidence to suggest that women are in any way inferior to men or the opposite, for that matter - as the I Ching relates: "consider the mare: does she not climb the same mountains as the stallion? Does she not weather the same storms?" - or something to that effect.

Men and women are different, that's all, has nothing to do really with dominence or submission, these are merely patterns of social interaction, not some mystical order of the universe - Yang tends to be aggressive, Yin, submissive - you could easily substitute testosterone and estrogen on the biological level.

D/s is a dynamic that can increase the potential of a given dyad by reducing interpersonal conflict among other things - two acting as one can generally accomplish more than any one alone - it's all about how you complement each other to achieve synergistic balance.

Goreans tend to use the word "nature" to describe it, according to the historical androcentric aristocratic doctrine. We know now that it isn't quite so simple as male/female, individuals are not homogeneous, and testosterone levels may vary greatly among individuals - you want a really horny chick look for one with a mustache - but I digress - there are women that are as capable as any man in a given task, I've seen it with my own eyes, and conversely  it takes strength to be submissive as well: there is an element of noblesse oblige implicitly involved, and explicitly stated in the ancient feudal formulae.

It takes two to tango, basically.

So by feminist, I mean to say that I try to appreciate women for the things that make them women, and respect their integrity as individuals - not that I feel under any obligation to act less like a man, I just try not to underestimate them or take unfair advantage of their generally lower aggression levels.

Unless they ask me to...

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 6:15:18 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		If standing up for your  rights as a woman is feminism- then I guess I am one.
 
I treat everyone equally.
 
In D/s.. I treat people according to the way they see themselves.  In this, I use the equal but separate concept.  I see my slave as equal to me.. although not in the same role. Make sense? :)

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 6:39:08 PM   
Caitriona


Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
 I see my slave as equal to me.. although not in the same role. Make sense? :)


Makes perfect sense to me.  You've just managed to say exactly what I've been trying to explain in regards to how my D/s relationship works.  Thanks!

I do my best to treat others how I would like to be treated, no matter their gender (ect). 


_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 6:57:53 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.


I'm certainly a feminist, in fact I'm a radical feminist.

My desire to help people become the best human being they can be via education has almost nothing to do with my BDSM interests except that I have the same expectations for all sexes. Why am I feminism then instead of a "humanist"? Cause humanism doesn't really have much to do with wanting equality for all humans, feminism comes the closest to that in my historical opinion.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 7:05:21 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_147894/mpage_1/key_feminist/tm.htm#147894
bdsm and feminism

http://www.collarchat.com/m_127026/mpage_1/key_feminist/tm.htm#127026
feminism and bdsm



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 7:14:02 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.


Yes, I'm a feminist.  Although I am submissive to my Master, that has nothing to do with the fact that as a woman I have the right to education, the right to vote, the right to be paid equally for equal work. 

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 7:30:41 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.

I'm a feminist in that I believe that:
"Gender equality means 'of equal value'.  Gender equality does NOT mean 'the same as'."

What's to square with D/s principles?  A relationship is worked out between two (or more) people establishing areas of authority, surrender, autonomy, responsibilities, expectations, needs, and desires, and more.  Until such time as the  bottom/slave/submissive(s) has(have) negotiated the surrender of their power and autonomy to the Dom/Top/Owner, they have as much input in establishing the framework of the relationship as the Top/Owner/Master/Mistress(s) would.

'Nuff Said!
- Geoff

< Message edited by EvilGeoff -- 9/9/2006 7:31:23 PM >

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 8:00:57 PM   
Kahri


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a feminist. I believe that men and women are equals. Feminism, in my opinion, is about guaranteeing each individual the right to make their own choices. For some, that means submitting to a woman. For some that means submitting to a man. For others that means dominating a man or woman.

(in reply to EvilGeoff)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 8:56:37 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I would very much define myself as a feminist.  I believe that women are entitled to hold the same rights, status, benefits, and salary that men have enjoyed in years past, and in many instances, presently.  I think it is my duty to fight for women's full participation in society, not just for myself, and my peers, but for the future women of the world. While feminism has often been an ill-conceived term, even to many who believe in its core meaning, feminism has been the proactive opposition to sexist oppression and patriarchy, and it's a shame it didn't happen sooner.  

Relating to D/s principles, my support of feminism isn't why a female-led relationship is what I believe in, but I suppose finding strength in women as feminism does, adds, in part to my beliefs.  I would be a feminist even if I were submissive, but in that I am not, I think I equate more power and strength to women than many who are feminists do. I think that feminine sexuality (the strong desire for female sex by the male, and the ability to feed that desire by the female) holds one of the greatest powers there is, and while that power has existed and has been recognized since humans have existed, feminism has brought the rest of women's strengths into the light.


(in reply to Kahri)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 9:20:27 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Are there any feminists out there?


Are there "any feminists out there?" Goodness. As if it's a rarity.

Perhaps a more daring question would be, "are there any non-feminists out there?"

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 9:31:49 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Are there any feminists out there?


Are there "any feminists out there?" Goodness. As if it's a rarity.

Perhaps a more daring question would be, "are there any non-feminists out there?"


Of course there are or women wouldn't still be fighting to gain equality in all functions of life.  There are lots of sexists out there, not all of them male... and the income gap has yet to be closed between men's and women's income levels.  Even women who work as full-time as their husbands do are often still expected to cook, clean, and pick the kids up from school, stay home when the kids are sick or have a field trip.... and then some men turn around and tell us the only reason women make less money is because we take off work more often than men do.  Some of these men are people who would consider themselves 'feminists'... so yeah, there are still lots of non-feminists out there,

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:16:37 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

Of course there are or women wouldn't still be fighting to gain equality in all functions of life. There are lots of sexists out there, not all of them male... and the income gap has yet to be closed between men's and women's income levels. Even women who work as full-time as their husbands do are often still expected to cook, clean, and pick the kids up from school, stay home when the kids are sick or have a field trip.... and then some men turn around and tell us the only reason women make less money is because we take off work more often than men do. Some of these men are people who would consider themselves 'feminists'... so yeah, there are still lots of non-feminists out there,


I do wonder what symbol, sign or clarion call will mark the final success of feminism in the West?

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:22:42 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Are there any feminists out there?


Are there "any feminists out there?" Goodness. As if it's a rarity.

Perhaps a more daring question would be, "are there any non-feminists out there?"

Yes. 

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:24:46 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Are there any feminists out there?


Are there "any feminists out there?" Goodness. As if it's a rarity.

Perhaps a more daring question would be, "are there any non-feminists out there?"

Yes.


* High fives girlie.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:28:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

What can I say.  I'm rare and daring.  lol.

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:38:35 PM   
naughtynick


Posts: 207
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline 		I dont support feminism or Men's Rights, I think they are both full of themselves but its funny how feminism is accepted in women such as in dating or personal sites. Women can proudly say they are feminist in dating/personal sites but if a man says he is a Men's Rights Activist in any dating/personals sites, he will get scoffed by most women and men because of it. Yep thats true equality.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 10:45:18 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I call myself a radical feminist, but I'm probably more of a radical genderist. I believe that any gender should be given the exact same rights and protections under the law. I believe that different genders are -different- biologically and physically, but that mentally they are able to achieve exactly the same things. I believe that people of any gender should be allowed to make their own choices, and live their lives in the ways that fufill them best.

How do I reconcile it with bdsm? I believe that any gender has the right to -choose-, and that having the right to choose allows for the choice to give up further choices. If I didn't have the ability to make my own choices, my choice to belong to someone would be lessened, in my eyes. Because I am free to choose, I'm able to choose not to be free.


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to naughtynick)
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RE: Are there any feminists out there? - 9/9/2006 11:07:18 PM   
Dollbecky


Posts: 197
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Happily a fairly radical feminist ....in fact its listed in my profile under the usful words for text serches

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 20
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