quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
Gender has no bearing on the truth of the statement.

That depends on the context. Resistance against some things is indeed not futile, but it is good to pick one's battles wisely. Predicating the success of one's social Jihad upon pruning key branches of human nature will be a hopeless struggle waged for eons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Assclown

Also MistressLorelei I saw you ranting on earlier in this thread about women not getting equal pay. You may find this link interesting
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba392/

quote:


So surrender to these double standards and let men get oppressed and feminism will be diminish. I understand.

It would be nice if you had some logical points to prove me wrong but I know you never will. You feminist always refuse to debate with logic, instead you just say we are misogynist and ignorant to shut down debate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Hello A/all,

I do not consider myself a Feminist per se.  After having studied it in college, and read extensively about it after college, the problem I personally have with much of it is that certain branches of Feminism imply that in a hierarchical structure like modern society, women should be in an upper bracket.  The problem I have with this ideal is that hierarchical structures tend to be associated with maleness, and this changeover for women to demand ascendance over males really started during Second Wave feminism in the 1960s.

Which is not to make a blanket statement that All of Anybody felt this way, but much literature supported the utopian ideal that if women were in charge, things would somehow be much better.  I studied Utopian thought in college, as well as what actually happened.  While many of the ideals are laudable, they almost never work out in practice.  This is primarily because the people involved are not interchangeable cogs.  But I digress.

...

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I don't believe that standing for gender equality is a hopeless struggle. Indeed, I have observed and benefitted from the successes in my lifetime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Assclown

What Feminist Say

If a man sleeps with a woman and has second thoughts about it
later on, they call it "fear of commitment."
If a woman sleeps with a man and has second thoughts about it
later on, they call it "date rape" <----Yes, but only if the sex was REALLY bad!

If a man gets drunk and sleeps with a woman, they hold him
responsible for his actions.
If a woman gets drunk and sleeps with a man, they hold him
responsible for her actions. <------ Since the guys want to be in charge.. we let them.  With dominace comes responsibility.

When men judge women based on their looks, they call it"lookism"
"sexism" and "oppression"
When women judge men based on their looks and their salaries, they
call it "dating"  <-- so don't state your salary.  It's none of anyone's business anyhow.

When a man says "You have to sleep with me to be an employee,"
they call it sexual harassment.

When a lesbian says "You have to sleep with me to be a feminist,"
they call it "body de-colonization" and "political lesbianism."  <-- HUH?????!!!!

When a man says "Some feminist hate men" he is engaging in
sterotypes and bashing.

When feminist say "All men are potential rapist," she is
rasing issues.  <----- never heard that one either.  Maybe you just come across as a rapist..

When feminist lie about rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, anorexia and bulimia, they are nonetheless educating the public about legitimate issues. <---anorexia and bulimia?  How the hell can they lie about anorexia and bulimia????!  'esplain that one to us, Lucy.


When you point out that feminist lie about rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, anorexia and bulimia, you are guilty of backlash. <--- it's an opportunity to prove them wrong, if you can.

When you ask why physical standards should be lowered so women can join the military, they say it ensures equality.

When you ask why only men are forced to register with the selective
service and only men can be forced into combat against their will, they'll say that you are the one who starts the wars. <-- see  the thread on the Male Warrior Effect.

[When you say that men should not be discriminated against, they will tell you that you that you hold all the power and privileges.
When you say that you don't feel that way, they will point out rich men you don't even know.
When you say that women in your work place have equal pay and
equal numbers and no longer deserve special breaks and special promotions, they will cite some statistics from someplace else.] <--- we have learned from the best... Men.

If you say you are afriad of a violent woman, they will laugh at
you and send you away without help.    I'm starting to wonder.. has this happed to you?

If you protect yourself from a violent woman, they will say that violence against women is always wrong, no matter what.  <-- see above comment

If a woman accuses a Republican nominee of sexual harassment, they
say "why would she lie?"

If several women accuse a Democratic president of sexual harassment, they say "she probably lied."  <--- She didn't say anthing like "I have never had sexual relations with the President"

If they want access to a predominantly male organization, club, or school, they say that "diversity" is good.
If they want to keep men out of a predominantly female organization, club, or school, they say "segregation" is good. <--- if you dress tasefully and are on time for the teas and promise to speak when spoken to... we'll let you in.  No wearing white after Labor day though.


Can't reflect on the rest.. haven't been there:
 
When a woman accuses a man of child abuse during a divorce or custody battle, they say "Believe the children."
When the children themselves say they weren't abused, they don't believe the children.

When a woman cannot support her children, they say we should raise taxes on everyone to set up more programs to help her.
When a man cannot support his children, they say, "Revoke the deadbeat's licence and throw him in jail."

When a man denies his children support money, they say he should
be punished.
When a woman denies her children a relationship with a warm and loving father, by thwarting his visitation rights, they say it's a
"non-traditional family."

When an unwed father wants custody of his child, they say "think of the best interest of the children."
When a mother wants custody of her child, they say "Don't punish a woman just because she works."

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

No, I am not a feminist.  In fact, I feel that the feminist movement has been servely detrimental to everyone, regardless of gender, orientation and class.  I am living proof of its discrimination, just as millions of others are.

And as much as it pains me to say, what AssClown posted, is nearer the truth than most people would like to admit.

 

Peace and Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: Assclown

Also MistressLorelei I saw you ranting on earlier in this thread about women not getting equal pay. You may find this link interesting
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba392/

quote:


So surrender to these double standards and let men get oppressed and feminism will be diminish. I understand.

It would be nice if you had some logical points to prove me wrong but I know you never will. You feminist always refuse to debate with logic, instead you just say we are misogynist and ignorant to shut down debate.

I never shut down debate,  I had been "debating" all along, but didn't see anything to discuss in your post as it was simply a woman bashing post containing no factual information, and no "logic", only opinions held by a small percentage of the population.  Rape is justified, and sexual harassment doesn't exist... according to your "logical" post.  I should debate that? 

Equality for women is not oppression for men, but your logic makes a good point.  Many men do not want the equality of women, because they may no longer be at the forefront of the corporate world.  I understand how that could be a concern after all of these years, but logic such as yours has been what continues to keep women as the second class gender.

Yes, I found your website interesting.  I found it interesting that an organization that keeps citing that it is "non-partisan" is considered a conservative organization.  Here it is in the Encyclopedia's list of top conservative companies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Conservative_organizations_in_the_United_States

The current census bureau, and the Labor Department account for your "facts" differently than your conservative reference, but even your article admits there is a  wage gap between women and men.  It still exists according to them, even after it accounts for all the reasons it believes women "should" be paid a lower wage than men should.

It's a shame that women are considered defective by employees because oh no, they might want to reproduce someday.  It's a shame that when it comes to whether mom or dad can work over time (after 5), mom goes to take care of the kids, and then is told she is worth less per dollar than her husband.  Voters refer to  a women's "time of the month" as a reason women should not be President.  There should be no double standard.  Not for women, not for men. (By the way, when is George Bush's "time of the month" over?).

If you, assclown  want to continue having more men in the future corporate world, then women will have to keep on having babies.... and because most any woman of child bearing years "can" have a baby, or because if perhaps mom has to skip overtime at certain times to look after her family, because if she doesn't, dad likely wouldn't do it (though some dad's would)....  it's still not a reason to pay women less for the hours they are working, for the positions they hold, for non promoting or hiring women for certain positions, etc.

Thankfully not all men, think like you do... and most Americans, men, women, the encyclopedia, and even your conservative reference, know there is an unfair gender wage gap.  That is not equality.  I think men are great, I am not wanting to take away social or economic equality or status that belongs to them, but to ensure that women are entitled to the same opportunities for advancement, benefits, pay,  social status, and lack of discrimination in the world, and that happens only with equality. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay

There is likely little to be gained by debating further with someone who refers to my pointing out that women make less money than men do as a "rant", but defines his woman bashing post as "logic".   But yet, we feminists are the ones who 'refuse to debate with logic'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
A simple answer really ... you are confusing "people who happen to be women, out doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt" ... with "feminists."

There are surely feminists out there looking to create a social agenda, but they are actually very few in number. What isn't few in number, is the women out there trying to get ahead, and those that label them "feminists" to support their own social agenda.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I wouldn't scoff at a man standing up for his rights. I would roll my eyes at a someone spouting off male supremacy, just as I do female supremacy.
There are battered men out there and male victims of rape who are to afraid to come forward because of fear of being laughed at. Women can be just as violent as men and although most men would snicker at the thought of a woman trying to attack them, it happens every single day.
My own Grandmother was a husband beater, she was mean and vicious. She busted my Grandpa's head open once with a hammer because he didn't move fast enough when she told him to cut the grass.
Everyone should stand up for their rights or they can be taken away.

~Lashra

quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick


She really means that male oppression is equality for women. Thats what she is basically saying. We should all hush up about these double standards, if we speak up about them it means we are women bashing and its the reason why feminist should still exist. So if everyone shuts up about the wrong things that happen to men today, everything should all fix it's self while feminist constantly complain about oppression that doesn't exist or what happened in another generation.

I don't know where  mr assclown said  sexual harassment doesn't exist. I didn't agree with some of his points but most of his points were right on the tooth and nail. Women are not a second class gender no more, its men. When will women ever see this? Or is it because women never want to take responsibility for their own actions and they forever dont want to let go from what happened in the past? Feminist want to keep saying they are oppressed to keep gaining more privileges. A man's greatest weakness is our facade of strength, a women's greatest strength is her facade of weakness.

I find it funny how your profile states out that you live for female supremacy but you say you want to stand up for equality. This is what a lot of feminuts call logic. It's hilarious. Female supremacy to you means equality. *vomits*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Assclown

What Feminist Say

If a man sleeps with a woman and has second thoughts about it
later on, they call it "fear of commitment."
If a woman sleeps with a man and has second thoughts about it
later on, they call it "date rape"

If a man gets drunk and sleeps with a woman, they hold him
responsible for his actions.
If a woman gets drunk and sleeps with a man, they hold him
responsible for her actions.

When men judge women based on their looks, they call it"lookism"
"sexism" and "oppression"
When women judge men based on their looks and their salaries, they
call it "dating"

When a man says "You have to sleep with me to be an employee,"
they call it sexual harassment.
When a lesbian says "You have to sleep with me to be a feminist,"
they call it "body de-colonization" and "political lesbianism."

When a man says "Some feminist hate men" he is engaging in
sterotypes and bashing.
When feminist say "All men are potential rapist," she is
rasing issues.

When feminist lie about rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, anorexia and bulimia, they are nonetheless educating the public about legitimate issues.
When you point out that feminist lie about rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, anorexia and bulimia, you are guilty of backlash.

When you ask why physical standards should be lowered so women can join the military, they say it ensures equality.
When you ask why only men are forced to register with the selective
service and only men can be forced into combat against their will, they'll say that you are the one who starts the wars.

When you say that men should not be discriminated against, they will tell you that you that you hold all the power and privileges.
When you say that you don't feel that way, they will point out rich men you don't even know.
When you say that women in your work place have equal pay and
equal numbers and no longer deserve special breaks and special promotions, they will cite some statistics from someplace else.

If you say you are afriad of a violent woman, they will laugh at
you and send you away without help.
If you protect yourself from a violent woman, they will say that violence against women is always wrong, no matter what.

If a woman accuses a Republican nominee of sexual harassment, they
say "why would she lie?"
If several women accuse a Democratic president of sexual harassment, they say "she probably lied."

If they want access to a predominantly male organization, club, or school, they say that "diversity" is good.
If they want to keep men out of a predominantly female organization, club, or school, they say "segregation" is good.

When a woman accuses a man of child abuse during a divorce or custody battle, they say "Believe the children."
When the children themselves say they weren't abused, they don't believe the children.

When a woman cannot support her children, they say we should raise taxes on everyone to set up more programs to help her.
When a man cannot support his children, they say, "Revoke the deadbeat's licence and throw him in jail."

When a man denies his children support money, they say he should
be punished.
When a woman denies her children a relationship with a warm and loving father, by thwarting his visitation rights, they say it's a
"non-traditional family."

When an unwed father wants custody of his child, they say "think of the best interest of the children."
When a mother wants custody of her child, they say "Don't punish a woman just because she works."

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I don't believe that standing for gender equality is a hopeless struggle. Indeed, I have observed and benefitted from the successes in my lifetime.

Ah, "gender equality." That sounds so much...nicer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I don't believe that standing for gender equality is a hopeless struggle. Indeed, I have observed and benefitted from the successes in my lifetime.

Ah, "gender equality." That sounds so much...nicer.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here, (sarcasm?) so I'm going to go off on my own little tangent. One of the most disturbing pictures I have ever seen is a print that hangs on the wall of the women's rest room at a local restaurant. In it, a woman is walking down a street. Her mode of dress and the cars lead me to guess the photograph was taken in the late 1940's or early 1950's. There are 6 or 7 men surrounding her. Their mouths are open, some of them are pointing at her, several of them are grabbing their crotches. It is broad daylight, she is dressed modestly. The look on her face is pure terror.
I do not think the men intended to harm her in any physical sense. I am sure they had no clue that their lacivious attentions were anything but 'just a little fun'.
I do not hate men; they are much too interesting in a variety of ways to shut them out of my life. I do not blame men for all the ills of the world. I will be the first to admit that sometimes women are their own worst enemies.
I am a feminist. I am for gender equality. I simply believe that a person's genitalia should have no bearing on their ability to walk where they choose, earn the same pay for the same work, whether their talents are encouraged and appreciated.
A bit of sarcasm back at you; yes indeed, 'gender equality' is much nicer than the alternative. Your contention that it is an unobtainable goal is only proven by such posts from 'naughtynick' and 'theassclown'. But I do not despair.