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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:15:16 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

I am a Disney fan, despite the fact that I feel taken advantage of by their price gouging in the toy, clothing, and amusement park markets... but am a bit put off about their new 9/11 movie.  The movie, which is being billed as a docu-drama (after being criticized for its lack of reality), is being offered on tape as a history lesson for schools when it includes events that never happened with historical figures involved, and presents them as facts.  Sure, make a film about anything you please, but don't intend on making it a misleading history lesson for kids to learn from and for schools to teach on.  That's irresponsible, and disappointing.

The right wing has campaigned by notifying schools and urging them to urge their students to watch this movie.   Kids are impressionable; why teach them "history" that isn't accurate. 


*waves to Lorelei*
 
I heard this morning that Scholastic is backing away from using the movie as a teaching tool, due to the controversy around it, which is a good thing.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:16:43 AM   
MistressLorelei


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Disney is the greatest artist of the 20th century. He illustrates the vacuous materialism that is capitalism, its sentimentality, its ersatz religiousity and mindless gratification.


Yes, but he also throws in an element not often found in other greedy corporate entities.  Family.  Disney produces many movies for children to enjoy with their families, they have an amusement park which provides family fun and Disney is always seeking new ways to educate <bites tongue on the new 9/11 movie>.  It has provided innovative benefits for its employees and their families, and somehow manages to target children, gays, conservatives and liberals all at the same time  I think Disney aspires to these things almost as much as it  caters to its capitalistic greed.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:17:50 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		When schools teach history that is distorted because they are urged to do so by political forces--isn't that the definition of propaganda?

And we're still talking about spreading democracy to places like Iraq...

(in reply to Level)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:21:45 AM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I can definitely vouch for the good adn bad things about Disney, but overall as you say here Lorelei, Disney does try hard to give something of value for its corporate greed.

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:23:03 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

I am a Disney fan, despite the fact that I feel taken advantage of by their price gouging in the toy, clothing, and amusement park markets... but am a bit put off about their new 9/11 movie.  The movie, which is being billed as a docu-drama (after being criticized for its lack of reality), is being offered on tape as a history lesson for schools when it includes events that never happened with historical figures involved, and presents them as facts.  Sure, make a film about anything you please, but don't intend on making it a misleading history lesson for kids to learn from and for schools to teach on.  That's irresponsible, and disappointing.

The right wing has campaigned by notifying schools and urging them to urge their students to watch this movie.   Kids are impressionable; why teach them "history" that isn't accurate. 


*waves to Lorelei*
 
I heard this morning that Scholastic is backing away from using the movie as a teaching tool, due to the controversy around it, which is a good thing.


<smiles at Level and waves back>

That's wonderful. Letters were sent to Scholastic by many, many liberal parents who objected to the educational marketing of the film, and told them they would take their business elsewhere in the future. I think backing away is the right move.  They can't re-write history.


(in reply to Level)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:24:55 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

When schools teach history that is distorted because they are urged to do so by political forces--isn't that the definition of propaganda?

And we're still talking about spreading democracy to places like Iraq...


It is indeed propaganda, Lam.
 
As for democracy, I'm not that big a fan of it, except when it works.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:29:10 AM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		I always found disney movies to be wierdly occult and masonic.

But thats just me.

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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:32:38 AM   
Kashan


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline 		Disney provides and extremely safe fantastic environment for children and their parents where you can believe in fairytales, or at least pretend to. And that feels really good. I like to take each movie I see on a case by case basis instead of judging an entire company for it's made for tv movie. When I grew up, those were the cheesiest of all tv shows and we all knew what we saw on tv wasn't real. Unfortunately now, even the news isn't real. The "truth" is what we choose to believe instead of based on fact. I am glad they won't be marketing it in schools, but I'm sure some schools (particularly in Kansas) will still show it to children. Personally I try to shield them from this as much as possible.

(in reply to Level)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:36:22 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
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Status: offline 		"They choose their political side according to what would make the most money"

.....but i thought that was exactly the American dream......sod the morality, what serves our interests best?

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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:50:56 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		So how did the Pocahontis movie get by without being hammered as not historicly accurate, how do the various movies they have made that promote environmental concerns stack up in the "are they liberal or conservative" question. Disney has made movies "based on historical events" many times in the past and they have been just as historicly inaccurate as this new project is reported to be.


(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 11:10:02 AM   
MistressLorelei


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

So how did the Pocahontis movie get by without being hammered as not historicly accurate, how do the various movies they have made that promote environmental concerns stack up in the "are they liberal or conservative" question. Disney has made movies "based on historical events" many times in the past and they have been just as historicly inaccurate as this new project is reported to be.




It was not vended out by Scholastic and implemented into schools as a history movie.  It was also not aimed at teenagers who are a bit more influentual than the preschoolers who watch a Pocahontas cartoon over and over again.

No one expects that Pocahontas really sang Colors of the Wind and had a friend who was a raccoon.  Teenagers will expect that events that impacted the world, and crucial words uttered (or not) by historical figures in a movie showed to the classrom as a history lesson, are accurate.  Something tells me Disney's Pocahontas would not have the same impact.

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 12:01:41 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Pocahontas was a fictional story about a real person. With the new 9/11 movie Disney is billing it as a Docu-Drama and touting it as being truthful rather than fictional. Then they are trying to promote it as an educational tool for schools. That is where the difference lies. Pocahontas was always promoted as a fictional story for the enjoyment of it rather than an educational tool. 
I just finished working on a Docu-drama for the BBC about the development of the atom bomb and the nuclear race, while the producer adn director did take some artistic license with this production, for the most part they stick pretty close to  the truth. With the Disney production about 9/11, from what I hear they have really taken some liberties as to stretching the truth. 

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 12:23:06 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
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Status: offline 		I knew this was going to be a fun thread

(in reply to wild1cfl)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 12:43:55 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It WAS hammered as historically inaccurate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

So how did the Pocahontis movie get by without being hammered as not historicly accurate

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 12:48:45 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		Disney may often appear extra conservative because they often offer the idealized picture of life, family, work. It is the nature of their product. But I don't feel there is yet any real political motivations of any particular stripe.
Though I may now search to try and find it's skeletons Can't pass up a chance for a good conspiracy.

I heard that Canadian customs folks once confiscated a load of Disneys movie "The Black Hole" suspecting it was porn.


< Message edited by Kedicat -- 9/10/2006 12:50:27 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 1:20:15 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		Yes it was blasted for being very historically inaccurate, but again it was a fictional account for entertainment. That is also what the directors and producers call their "artistic license" LOL

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 9:40:34 PM   
StrongButKind


Posts: 136
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Disney supports homosexuality
Disney makes a profit
Disney is a huge corporation
Disney makes movies (some of which are controversial)

What is the answer?


In that they own part of the media, they are part of the evil liberal media conspiracy to re-animate Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Roosevelt, breed them in some sort of sick experiment, and create the greatest news anchor of all time. That if you're an idiot Republican loudmouth. If you're an idiot Democrat loudmouth, they're right-wing shills for George Bush, Halliburton, and the Jews that staged 9/11. So, take your pick.

Is it just me, or does the middle ground widen and nonetheless become less populated all the time?

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:19:36 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Lets see the basic run is:

Documentary, Filmed as it happened, accurate depiction, could be scewed by viewpoint factors.

Mocumentary, filmed as if it were happening with a specific political bent, and editing specificly to convey a partisan message.
(Alah Micheal Moore)
Docu Drama, Filmed with some actual historic facts taken into account, likely scewed can be seen as fatually based in the big picture but requires some thought to determine what the scenes are ment to convey.

If by the time they have reached 13 years old they connot tell the difference between a documentary and a docu drama then they have more educational issues than seeing this film. The schools hacve used far more historicly inaccurate films and shows to teach than this one.

The most often cited innaccuracy seems to be the Clinton turning back an assasination of Bin Laden operation when he's in the operative's scope. Historicly inaccurate but in the big picture the facts are that Clinton did turn back more than one operations to get Ossama when the potential for success was high. the most similar being the one right after the china mishap when he "didn't want to appear trigger happy", so close after that event. Certainly if nothing else the show could be used to teach how to view a docudrama with a grain of salt and then figure out what was factual and what was artistic lisence. A skill that we need more and more as the news programming in all networks conservative and liberal becomes more entertainment and commentary with less hard news.




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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:24:05 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Archer,

Clinton bombed the Chinese embassy on purpose, he wasn't afraid of appearing trigger happy.

As for accuracy, there wasn't much.

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Is Disney Pro or Con Liberal/Conservative or is it ... - 9/10/2006 10:29:16 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Didn't watch it personally at all my own interest in it was never that high until it got to the point where people were trying to block it. When active government officials (Senators and Congressmen) start trying to block a program then I start to have an interest in maybe seeing it. But even with all the hype I simply was more motivated to spend time with family and freinds.


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