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Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/10/2006 12:51:20 PM

C

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline

I’m a male top but I own a femdom dungeon and a femdom adult website. Needles to say I have tons of exposure to the culture of female tops. I’ve always viewed the Mistresses who work for me as my peers and conspirators. I’ve filmed a lot of videos with Mistresses and even collaborated with many of them in my own personal sceneing and learned a lot of new tricks and techniques from them and showed them a few also. I’ve always enjoyed having a bunch of tops to bounce ideas and experience around with. A lot of male tops tend not to associate with tops of the opposite gender. This got me thinking about a few things.

1st why the lack of communication between the two groups?
2nd how many of you conspire with male tops and has it effected your play style for the better?

I’d be curious to here your thoughts.

Thanks
C
www.rapturevision.com

Post #: 1

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/10/2006 1:09:04 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

One of my dearest friends is a male dom. I enjoy people of all orientations and genders. It is nice to bounce ideas off of everyone and everyone learnes something from it. I don't see a lot of lack of communication between the genders in my world but it does happen. I would guess that there are a few reasons for this. First, there may be experiences where male tops are not as respectful and have the idea that a domme is just someone who hasn't found the right master yet. While a fallacy, it does happen. I have had it happen to me before and I brush it off as just that particular person is rude. The moajority of male tops I have known personally do not have this attitude. The other may be just a sense of comeraderie amid the gender group.

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(in reply to C)

Post #: 2

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/10/2006 1:25:31 PM

C

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline

I think some of the attitude comes form the fact that people meet at play parties. When people are in play mode they some times forget to turn it off when they are talking to other tops. One great organization here in NYC is TESS. They run a lot of educational work shops and classes for the scene. I’ve noticed that when people meet in this type of environment they tend to be a lot more polite and open. I don’t think the usually come from a sense of gender superiority in most cases. There are of coarse the odd male or female supremacist but I think this is a rare breed.

C
www.rapturevision.com

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 3

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 1:50:08 AM

TheShadows

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline

As far as the why of the lack of communication, we don't really have that problem in our area, so I really couldn't tell ya. If I were to venture a guess, I would think it might have something to do with the over-inflated egos of the Tops in question. Which might go something like this....

"I can't possibly allow a woman to teach me something I didn't know." OR
"OMG...I can't let this guy think he's better than me...I'd better get him before he gets me."

Or something along those lines. You get the point.

I conspire and collaborate with male Tops ALL the time. My husband, in particular. What great fun! Since this area is mostly MaleDom/femsub oriented, the Female Tops around here are quite comfortable with their specialized niche, and fit in nicely with the Guys talking shop, too. The Men are usually more than happy to show-and-tell, and us Gals are, also. Personally, I've learned almost every technique and trick of the trade that I know from Male Tops, and I firmly believe that it's enhanced my talents and abilities to a great extent. Which is not to say that the experiences that I've gained from other FemTops aren't just as valuable. Just different!

Great question!

As always, YMMV...

MrsShadows

_____________________________

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(in reply to C)

Post #: 4

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 5:52:56 AM

MistressWolfen

Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

Just a random "sharing" 'cause the title of the thread made me think of something a Dom friend of mine always says "dominants consult or collaborate; submissives conspire" (and no he isn't serious just being funny) *waves hiyas* to Jack.....

now to the OP, I have friends that are both dominant and submissive and a couple that are duals, it has not been my experience that male dominants are rude or authoritarian to me or the female dominants I know, I am referring to Canada and the UK predominently as I know only a handful of American lifestyle people (and they have been awesome too).
To answer your questions
1) That has not been my experience, two of my better friends in the lifestyle are males.
2) I try to avoid conspiracy at all costs (unless it involves maple walnut fudge or Terry' chocolate oranges). In my conversations with male dominants I have received tips or guidance from them in areas they have more experience, just as I have given them guidance in areas I am experienced in.

< Message edited by MistressWolfen -- 9/11/2006 5:54:12 AM >

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(in reply to C)

Post #: 5

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 7:06:21 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

In the South, the attitude from Male Dominants that a Fem Dom merely hasn't "met the right man" in order for her to submit seems to be more prevalent than in other places, even though it doesn't show itself very often. But, because when it does, it does so in a loud, obnoxious manner, this leads to an incorrect assumption that almost all Male Doms in the area are like this. Thus, Fem Doms usually avoid pan groups. I don't and I know that there are many Male Doms who do NOT have this attitude. Also, male submissives in the south are often ashamed of who they are (usually due to a macho upbringing) and avoid the pan groups because of an implied, or an assumption of a, "you are a pussy" attitide from Male Doms. So, again, they simply do not go. This means that, if the two groups want to meet, they meet outside the pan community.

I am a co-founder of a Fem Dom group. I try to tell my Fem Dom and male sub friends that this attitude is NOT prevalent in our local community. Still, as everyone does, they prefer to stay where they are comfortable. Me, I am the director of MAsT: Triad, NC and am the only Fem Dom who participates on a regular basis. Also, it's not uncommon for me to go to a pan group and be the only Fem Dom in attendance. Doesn't bother me and I happily ignore the rare occasions of meeting idiots.

Master Fire

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(in reply to C)

Post #: 6

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 7:43:37 AM

HellsMichelle

Posts: 63
Joined: 2/24/2006
From: HOUSTON TEXAS
Status: offline

In Houston it is much like the rest of the South, like MFM described, but it has vastly improved in the past eight years. At first I got that whole "haven't met the right man" blah blah bullshit [which was made even worse bc I am a switch at heart]. Now I am lucky enough to have not only crossed that bridge, but have founded my own groups, a large leather family and hosted for many of the larger pan groups as well. I am also in the position to look the "good old boys" in the eyes and return the comments with, "Oh please -- if I offered you a chance to worship my ass you'd jump on it" and watch them blush!

When I first got to the community there was barely any femdoms to learn from. I found that the male doms were very adept at teaching about the toys and techniques but lacked much insight into the mentality of kink. It's bc of them that I am excellent with the tools. That alone has afforded me a great deal of respect from my male counterparts. At first I was the "warm up girl" that they would ask to play their partners since many of our males do not understand the importance of the good warm up -- opting instead to go at it full force from the start. [something that has never made sense.] Now I am more like a finish-off-er because of the level I play at, when I offer [or accept an invitation] to play at all.

Once I found our femdoms, I learned there was a great diversity with them as well. Some are MUCH more creative then our male counters. Through those I learned not only the mental and emotional aspects, but how to see anything as pervertable! It took me quite a while to find the women though because for years they had kept their groups so cloistered from the overall community at large because of the hardships of the "good old boy" network.

I worked to change that. I brought them to pansexual events. I got them more education about safety [the one thing I found lacking from their isolation] and let both 'sides' see the differences where not as dividing as they seemed to be in the past. But because the old ways still linger, there are moments where the division becomes appearant....One of my favorite quotes at a pansexual discussion group talking about what percentage in kink consists of what dynamic[According to the speaker, the largest [and often unseen] is Femdom to male sub] came from one of the women who now leads our most cloistered femdom groups, ClubFem. She replied, "I'm sorry. But until I came to this group I did not even know male dominates existed....and I'm still not convinced they really do." I about peed to hear a woman turn it around on the good old boys in their home environment.

I've asked other women and men why the division exists at all. The dom men seem rather baffled by it, but the submen aren't. They don't like the way the male doms act towards them or the women. Also I have noticed that many women come to our community as bottoms and switch sides over the years because of the lack of good male doms. It seems that once they learn how the women play they see the faults of the male dom ego. Its really sad because so many of them would much rather bottom -- but i am a firm believer that the best masters also make the best slaves, so to me it makes perfect sense.

I still run into mysognistic pig men. They usually just stand and glare at me for what I am. I have little respect for those types. Just like I have little respect for femmesupremes. Anyone who thinks one gender is better than the other is not judging the person for their experiences and to me that is what it is all about.

Good topic, Lv M

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(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 7

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 7:51:22 AM

MistressWolfen

Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

"I'm sorry. But until I came to this group I did not even know male dominates existed....and I'm still not convinced they really do."

Thank you for sharing this HellsMichelle, I shall be smiling all day!

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Quoth the raven

(in reply to HellsMichelle)

Post #: 8

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 7:52:31 AM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: C
<snip> A lot of male tops tend not to associate with tops of the opposite gender. This got me thinking about a few things.

1st why the lack of communication between the two groups?
2nd how many of you conspire with male tops and has it effected your play style for the better?

I’d be curious to here your thoughts.

Thanks
C

Based on my own observations & experience... I believe that those who avoid interaction with individuals based on gender alone are most likely dealing with insecurities about their own gender or they are simply shallow, narrow minded bigots. They most likely have issues dealing with others who share their gender.

Sure men & women may not match up ideals that are strictly feminine or masculine attributes once they share ideas but this doesn't mean that they are incapable of sharing anything.

I'll use myself as an example. Previous to my current relationship, I was strictly heterosexual. I have a male dominant friend who has turned to me on many occasions for advice. Not only is he male but he is also gay. Though the dynamics of our personal relationships are on complete opposites of the spectrum we find enough commonality to be able to share our experience & help each other out when we need a little support.

Now as far as play style? I can't say that my interaction with male tops has influenced my play style any different than my interaction with other women tops. If either have a skill that I feel I would benefit in learning from them... gender doesn't define who would I better learn from. Neither influence my style... my style is my own.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to C)

Post #: 9

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 9:34:20 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

In the South, the attitude from Male Dominants that a Fem Dom merely hasn't "met the right man" in order for her to submit seems to be more prevalent than in other places, even though it doesn't show itself very often. But, because when it does, it does so in a loud, obnoxious manner, this leads to an incorrect assumption that almost all Male Doms in the area are like this. Thus, Fem Doms usually avoid pan groups. I don't and I know that there are many Male Doms who do NOT have this attitude. Also, male submissives in the south are often ashamed of who they are (usually due to a macho upbringing) and avoid the pan groups because of an implied, or an assumption of a, "you are a pussy" attitide from Male Doms. So, again, they simply do not go. This means that, if the two groups want to meet, they meet outside the pan community.

I am a co-founder of a Fem Dom group. I try to tell my Fem Dom and male sub friends that this attitude is NOT prevalent in our local community. Still, as everyone does, they prefer to stay where they are comfortable. Me, I am the director of MAsT: Triad, NC and am the only Fem Dom who participates on a regular basis. Also, it's not uncommon for me to go to a pan group and be the only Fem Dom in attendance. Doesn't bother me and I happily ignore the rare occasions of meeting idiots.

Master Fire

*laughs* I've been to some of those spaces!

I'm fortunate that I am predominantly in an area where I don't meet that sort of attitude. However, what I do run into are alot of straight het submissives who are homophobic. And while I tell them that they have no place in service to me, every now and again, one seems to slip through. That tends to muck up my enjoyment of bringing dominant male energy into my playspace.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 10

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/11/2006 4:17:47 PM

MsPoison

Posts: 3
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

C,

In my experiences over the years both RT and ProI have only had one very close male friend that was a top.

Each time a male domme has approached me or called me it was in totally rude demeanor. Even on this site I have been contacted by males that have been VERY RUDE.

I have been asked to play with male tops that swear they will be sub... It will never happen.

Poison

(in reply to C)

Post #: 11

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/13/2006 3:21:50 PM

degradess

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline

I have been trying to find a dom to play with subs as a team but as many on here have found those who want me to be their slut bitch. That isn't me anymore and I don't want that. I am still looking, there must be some who can be co -doms and play buddies.

(in reply to MsPoison)

Post #: 12

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/14/2006 5:45:29 AM

NoviceDominant

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: NYC Area
Status: offline

I have found that some male Doms feel that all Women should be slaves/subs and don't give Us the respect we deserve. I am friends with several male Doms and enjoy them very much - great Men!

(in reply to degradess)

Post #: 13

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/14/2006 11:07:46 AM

TheShadows

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline

degradess,

There was a thread on this very topic not too long ago, but I'm too lazy at the moment to find the link. It was asking about how many Dominant Woman are attracted to Dominant Men in a relationship context. While quite a few Male Doms aren't into sharing their scene-space with another Dom, especially Female, there are those that are. And when everyone matches up good, along with trust, communication, and skill, those scenes can be magical.

I hope you can find your Partner in Crime as I have.

Best of Luck,

MrsShadows

_____________________________

"The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of it's shallowness." - George Carlin

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

(in reply to degradess)

Post #: 14

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/14/2006 1:41:02 PM

MstrssPassion

Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline

It would seem that people like that would not fit in with my core crowd (those who don't play well with others)... just a couple of months ago myself & 5 of my closest male-dom friends co-topped 4 of our significant partners. My girl & one other sub were not included because this was going to be an extremely heavy scene.

We absolutely thrived on the energy we created & had a blast. The scene was at a fairly large party & the crowd pretty much stopped what they were doing & gathered to watch us... I guess they enjoyed the energy as well.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to TheShadows)

Post #: 15

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/15/2006 8:33:55 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

Sure, there's some assholes of both genders calling themselves tops or dominants, and they're no fun to be around, let alone share scene energy or play space with. I feel the same way about rude and bigoted femdoms as I do about rude and bigoted male doms. If someone does not respect people of other orientations and lifestyles, I really don't want to be around them whether their orientation is the same as mine or different from mine.

I really enjoy spending social time and sometimes sharing play time (co topping) with other dominants who are intelligent, fun, creative and not bigoted assholes. Their gender doesn't matter; whether they are gay or straight doesn't matter. If they're good people with fun energy and ideas to share, we can have a great time conspiring together. I recently met a male dom from this site who is really fun to hang out with, and we share an interest in fine cigars. I don't do much with girls and I don't think he tops boys, so I'm not sure that he and I will ever co top, but we sure do have fun hanging out and comparing notes on cigars and subs over a good smoke.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)

Post #: 16

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/16/2006 3:40:14 PM

Samwhiplash

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

In the Dublin scene a lot of the Dom(me)s are very friendly - and a lot of the sub men are friendly with each other too (not so aware of sub girls being friends).

I 100% enjoy the interaction between other Dom(me)s and its a fantastic way to exchange ideas. I also enjoy co-topping with both sexes :)

(in reply to Najakcharmer)

Post #: 17

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/17/2006 7:48:57 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

I write to add that a creative sub can make a hell of a conspirator as well ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Samwhiplash)

Post #: 18

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/29/2006 3:47:45 PM

Samwhiplash

Posts: 191
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

I write to add that a creative sub can make a hell of a conspirator as well ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

Hmmmm... judging from the pic (and the teasing glimpse of lips under that hat - id be absolutely delighted to co-conspire wth u.

A v sexy photo !

x

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 19

RE: Conspiring with tops of the opposite gender - 9/30/2006 10:29:12 PM

lilyophelia

Posts: 38
Joined: 1/5/2004
Status: offline

Note: i don't believe any group is definite, and these are just thoughts, not generalizations.

A quick thing, but i know that, in some ways, there can be different cultures coming into contact here.

In most of our social outings, and especially at the munches (in Florida, before we moved), most of the couples we met were heterosexual, male-top/female-bottom. They had a sort of cliche going, and when we went to groups, it was semi-awkward. my Miss was mostly comfortable, it seemed, but there was a definite, out-of-place feeling there.

That's probably one reason...that in a culture that has such prevalent gender roles, there can be a certain oddness when groups (Male Dom and Female Domme) mix.

Also, i find that hetrosexual, female submissives can actually be a little bit catty sometimes too. For a woman to be casually submissive in a scene way, isn't the biggest stretch of gender roles (and can require very little personal growth to pursue), and i've known some who have gone out of their way to make less conventional submissives feel out of place (especially male slaves, for whatever reasons). Almost like, some female subs can be jealous of males who encroach on what they see as their territory, rightfully theirs by nature of gender. So, if subs can't really get along and socialize, that can be bad for group intermingling as well.

i find, from personal experience, that Male and Female Tops most easily mix when it comes to a public dungeon or a play party or public sceneing of some sort, because then the mix of people is broader, and includes a lot of the more casual players in the scene. When you have a boy in diapers sitting next to a girl with a pony tail coming from her bottom, and there's a lesbian couple sceneing on the floor, and upstairs, a husband is dripping wax on his submissive wife, people really don't notice the gender of anyone, i think, unless they're appraising someone specifically.

Also, as a side note. We don't play with men at all (except for the very rare, lifestyle, male slave) and it can be very irritating to have a casual guy come up to my Miss to ask if he can scene with me (things like this have happened). Sometimes, i think women can just have an inherant...suspiciousness of the intentions of male Tops; it's not always justified, but it's definitely not an illusion that some men (and even women) don't understand respectful boundaries, so that could be a factor as well.

With all those thoughts rambled out, my Miss has had a very wonderful friendship with a male Dom who taught a single-tail class at a public dungeon in Florida. He was just wonderful and he possessed a great deal of integrity and was a valued friend. i think to limit your friends to any specific gender (or religious bent, or sexual preferences, or kinks, even) can be a very silly and sad thing to do.

(in reply to Samwhiplash)

Post #: 20

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