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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/6/2006 3:49:25 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

If the murder and mayhem Iraqui on Iraqui is not religiously based then what is the cause ? I realise the invasion allowed the hatred to rise to the surface but why didn't it, the invasion, cause the Muslims to UNITE to attack the invaders ?

I do not know the answer to this for sure, but here is one educated guess I am willing to make about this question that you posed. One of the ways that colonial governments rule distant lands is that they do not directly rule them at all, instead they prop up a minority group the larger society to do this for them. It was successful for many years to have Saddam as the front guy to fill this role. He was from a Sunni tribe, Sunnis are a smaller percentage of the population, they are at odds with the Persians of Iran, and as a group they were more than happy to cooperate with the powers that be in order to prop themselves up. The same thing happened in Rwanda between the Tutsi and the Hutu. For years colonial powers ruled this region by setting these people against each other. When colonialism ended they were left to fight each other for power, and we know what has happened there. It had nothing to do with religion, but with ethnicity, and remote powers using ethnicity to divide and conquer.

I believe you see the same sort of process going on, the question in the minds of common citizens is who is going to be controling the oil at the end of the day in Iraq, which puppet will rule them. It is about fighting each other to make sure that they have political clout at the end of the day perhaps? It is really hard to get people to play nice when we have set the stage for over 100 years for them to fight amongst themselves by arming one side and not the other....

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/6/2006 3:50:39 PM >

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/6/2006 4:27:53 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Synergy said...(over there = Iraq)
Believe what you want, but I think the situation over there is not just religious differences causing their bloodshed, in the same sense that Northern Ireland was not strictly a religious problem between Christians.

If the murder and mayhem Iraqui on Iraqui is not religiously based then what is the cause ? I realise the invasion allowed the hatred to rise to the surface but why didn't it, the invasion, cause the Muslims to UNITE to attack the invaders ?

The differences between the northern Irish was one of nationality rather than religion and so it is largely the case with Iraqi muslims, it is one of tribes and clans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Meatcleaver said
The majority of French muslims see themselves as 100% French.
I guess that is why there is so much trouble in the big Muslim ghettoes in Marseille ?

Muslims in the big muslim ghettoes don't make up the majority of French muslims and the people rioting in the big muslim ghettoes were also Christians. The only common thing between the rioters were that they were nearly all first or second generation immigrants. As with all riots anywhere, the news concentrates on the burning cars, the looters and violent minority and not the law abiding majority.

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/7/2006 1:51:16 AM

seeksfemslave

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I asked what is the root cause of the current Iraqui/Iraqui violence.
Juliaoceania said
For years colonial powers ruled this region by setting these people against each other

These different groups have probably been at one anothers throats for a very long time. Colonialism bought stability and some progress. The Belgian Congo is a good example.
Another example is India. When the Brits left I expect you know that the first thing that happened was serious violence, between Hindu/Muslim with many thousands killed.

I hope I am right about the Middle East, thats why I switched to Africa to give examples !!

I cannot understand why, I assume Liberals like Juliaoceania and Meatcleaver, can readily see the wickedness perpetrated by the Western world, but fail to see it in the shall we say second and third world countries. Or at least fail to condemn it.

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/7/2006 3:10:52 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I cannot understand why, I assume Liberals like Juliaoceania and Meatcleaver, can readily see the wickedness perpetrated by the Western world, but fail to see it in the shall we say second and third world countries. Or at least fail to condemn it.

I see it. I just don't think it gives us an excuse to be as bad. In fact we don't have an excuse because we are a democracy (well sort of if we all applied it) and we idly sit by and watch crimes in our name because we enjoy and don't want to do without the luxury life style all these crimes afford us.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/7/2006 3:11:09 AM >

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/7/2006 8:11:10 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Back at you, Merc. Show me one example of a culture anywhere on the planet where a contradictory culture, religion, or difference of opinion was accepted for any length of time.

The USA.

That was too easy. If you baited me - good job!

Nice try.

Discrimination against black people, hispanics, asians, etc, is endemic in the United States. Black men won the right to vote in 1868. Women did not earn the right to vote until 1919. The Equal Rights Amendment ("EQUALITY OF RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW SHALL NOT BE DENIED OR ABRIDGED BY THE UNITED STATES OR BY ANY STATE ON ACCOUNT OF SEX.") did not pass muster in Congress, so apparently the United States citizenry and the government we elect still believe that equality of rights can be denied or abridged by the United States on the basis of a person's gender.

We still have all sorts of glass ceilings for different peoples in this country. Which is not to say that we are making progress, most of the time, but to imply that we in the United States are accepting of opinions we dont agree with seems a bit myopic.

Mark Shepard died after being tortured. His crime? Homosexuality.

In regards to the crimes which Al Qaeda supposedly punished us for on September 11th, 1991, one of their biggest objections to the United States going back to the USS Cole and WTC bombing attempt #1 is our vast amount of economic support of the state of Isreal, considering the arms and money used is frequently used by Isreal to bully her neighbors.

As I said before, same game, different varsity letter jacket.

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/7/2006 3:05:28 PM

Arpig

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Hmmmmmm......

Pogroms....Albigensian crusade...Inquisition...IRA...UDF....Yup the Christians are so very peaceful.
Religion = Violence when combined with narrowmindedness and bigotry

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 12/20/2006 10:53:39 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I asked what is the root cause of the current Iraqui/Iraqui violence.
Juliaoceania said
For years colonial powers ruled this region by setting these people against each other

These different groups have probably been at one anothers throats for a very long time. Colonialism bought stability and some progress. The Belgian Congo is a good example.
Another example is India. When the Brits left I expect you know that the first thing that happened was serious violence, between Hindu/Muslim with many thousands killed.

I hope I am right about the Middle East, thats why I switched to Africa to give examples !!

I cannot understand why, I assume Liberals like Juliaoceania and Meatcleaver, can readily see the wickedness perpetrated by the Western world, but fail to see it in the shall we say second and third world countries. Or at least fail to condemn it.

seeksfemslave:
This is a little off topic but I need a definition. Please define for me your understanding of first,second and third world countries. We all use these phrases but I am not always clear as to their meaning in any given context.
thompson

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 7/5/2007 6:04:01 AM

seeksfemslave

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Isn't it interesting to read things that you posted a few months ago and completely forgot about ?
I was consistant and I haven't changed my views one little bit lol

In one post I expressed uncertainy about how much violence between Muslims had occured over the years.
Well....I have since found out that there has been constant violent internecine(wow) Islamic struggle since the late 12th early 13th century!
Peaceful lot they are not!

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 7/5/2007 6:09:17 AM >

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 7/5/2007 6:29:15 AM

mnottertail

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Ja, that would be around the time of the crusades, I suspect, little is done in a vacuum

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 7/5/2007 8:48:52 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Ja, that would be around the time of the crusades, I suspect, little is done in a vacuum

Yes but Muslims were at one anothers throats all over the Middle East. I had a book that listed all the conflicts over 4/5 hundred years.. Wish I had made a note of what happened
The Pashas handed out a lot of bashin'. In a peacefule way of course !

nb I didn't resurrect this thread

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RE: Islam Religion of Peace??? - 7/5/2007 9:25:07 AM

OrionTheWolf

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I wonder if an arguement over which sect is supposed to lead the religion is behind this? Most have heard of Sunni's and Shite, but has anyone ever heard of a Sufi? Is there a difference between Arab and Persian?

Extremist of anything often lead to destruction of something, religion, politics, money, etc. As humans many flounder with self identity and a purpose, does maybe the extreme Islamic movement offer that?

With each answer of each question, it breeds more questions.

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