RE: The Confederate Flag (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 12:54:26 PM)

Those that display the confederate flag in Iowa tend to run along a specific type of human being. The same type that tend to get locked up for cooking and/or selling meth. Also, the same type that tend to have a small number of whole teeth in their mouth and smaller number of functioning brain cells.

Needless to say you will not find one in my possession.





kisshou -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 2:27:03 PM)

this is so weird because in my neighborhood an African American family moved in and out of all the neighbors they could have gotten,they landed next door to the ones who have southern pride slogan stickers all over their trucks. The same neighbors I complain about in the complaint thread who park their mudding trucks and jeep in the front yard. They also just erected a HUGE confederate flag in their front yard. I keep wondering how that family must feel.

There is a saying that alot of people down here wear on t-shirts 'if you are offended by this flag then you need a history lesson" is printed on the front.

Another reason why the internet is great you get to talk to others from different parts of the country and see how everyones perspective is different.




kisshou -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 2:37:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
When i see the Confederate flag or i hear Dixie i still get choked up,


I grew up in the heart of New England , real yankee territory, In third grade I had the most beautiful teacher that I adored, she was from the south. Every morning after the pledge of allegiance we would then sing her favorite song. I still know all the words...Oh I wish I was in the land of cotton ... **lol**  




NavyDDG54 -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 3:12:49 PM)

The Confederate flag is the flag of traitors, they betrayed their country and government and took up arms against their fellow countrymen.  Displaying it should be considered an Act of Treason

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

What does the confederate flag mean to you?  A fellow worker had it displayed on his desk, and the supervisor took it down telling him that it  meant "hate".... is that what it means, I never really knew that.




caitlyn -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 3:17:31 PM)

Just to point out the obvious ... the are actually dead at this point. [;)]
 
By your very questionable logic, the American flag would also be a flag of traitors. You should be ashamed of yourself ... traitor. [;)]




juliaoceania -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 3:29:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

The Confederate flag is the flag of traitors, they betrayed their country and government and took up arms against their fellow countrymen.  Displaying it should be considered an Act of Treason

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

What does the confederate flag mean to you?  A fellow worker had it displayed on his desk, and the supervisor took it down telling him that it  meant "hate".... is that what it means, I never really knew that.



Actually the North fired first, but who is counting, right?




juliaoceania -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 3:31:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Just to point out the obvious ... the are actually dead at this point. [;)]
 
By your very questionable logic, the American flag would also be a flag of traitors. You should be ashamed of yourself ... traitor. [;)]


OMG Caitlyn, you crack me up




Noah -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 3:32:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

What does the confederate flag mean to you?  A fellow worker had it displayed on his desk, and the supervisor took it down telling him that it  meant "hate".... is that what it means, I never really knew that.


I think it is fine to display the Stars and Bars--isn't that what they call it? I do like to see it displayed between something with a swastika on it and the WWII Japanese battle flag. You know: "Vanquished Enemies of the United States."

On second thought, why would you want to display it at all?


http://www.blockbuster.com/catalog/DisplayMoreMovieProductDetails.action?movieID=171068




cuddleheart50 -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 4:52:23 PM)

I didnt display it, a fellow co-worked did....Not me, Him.....




KatyLied -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 5:31:43 PM)

I friend of mine displayed this on her car shortly after she moved to Georgia (from Illinois)

http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/br/j18




TotalitarianFL -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 6:37:01 PM)

It is primarily, under today's circumstances, simply a symbol for "redneck" culture. I live in a rural area and see white kids step out of their trucks with huge confederate flags on them blasting rap. That's what you get when you grow up listening to MTV and CMT simultaneously I guess, who knows. 




Marc2b -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 6:59:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

This is interesting. It's brings up one of those 'what if?' moments. How different history would be if there were three english speaking States in North America, the Confedracy, the Union and Canada.


You may be interested in the works of Harry Turttledove who is known for his alternate history stories.  He has a long series of books (it's up to ten or eleven now, I've lost count) detailing an alternate history in which the South won the Civil War.  The Union and the Confederacy end up on opposite sides during World War One, resulting in trench warfare down the middle of America, and again during World War Two with a decidedly Nazi-like Confederacy launching a blitzkrieg against the United States.  There is even a Stalingrad-like battle for Pittsburgh, resulting in that city being reduced to rubble.  A word of warning, Turttledove is not without his weaknesses as a writter, his biggest being repetition.  Still, he is a good read for history buffs who like to think, "what if?"

You might also be interested in, "If the South Had Won the Civil War," by MacKinlay Kantor.  I agree with some of his theories (i.e. that Texas would eventually re-assert it's own independence from the Confederacy) but not with others (i.e. that the three nations would evenutally re-unite peacefully).  It is a short book (you can read it in a single sitting), very well written, and a enjoyable read.  




Kree -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/13/2006 7:38:33 PM)

General comment:
First, someone mentioned the Native American use of the swastika.  If you will look carefully, you will notice that the symbol used by Native Americans is displayed, and always has been, backwards.  It was a symbol of friendship.  Dont create history without investigation.

As to the Confederate Flag, it is very annoying for those who grew up in the South to read the BS that passes as the politically correct "truth" about the flag, slavery, motives for secession, and later day use of a symbol.  There is a mindset that would like to tell those who grew up in the South that their heritage means nothing.  That their heritage is offensive and should be stricken from all memory.  Shades of 1984.  While kicking a symbol of the South around as offensive, why do those who never lived in the South, or knew its people, automatically assume that all Confederate flags are offensive?  Why is it perfectly okay to try to throw away a culture, a heritage, because it might offend some people when descendents of those original Southerners have seen their streets renamed for civil rights champions, their buildings re-named, museums built in an "in your face" manner?  Where are the champions for those who simply grew up with no hatred, no animosity toward other races, yet have had a different culture forced on them?  What if a vote were held in the South to remove all mention of the Confederate flags and to outlaw all displays of Confederate flags.... if all streets, buildings, and museums were made to remove the name Martin Luther King from those places and put the names back like they once were?  I am sure that will create a storm of outrage, but just try looking at a situation from all angles, not just a politically correct angle. 

Someone mentioned the Southern Poverty Law Center.  I remember when that organization was founded.  The founder was a lawyer that understood the value of lawsuits, both credible and specious, if his name and firm could lead the charge.  He has attacked those who needed to be attacked, but he has also created a place where those who did not deserve his scrutiny were damaged.  He is the Ralph Nader of the civil rights world.  Nader wrote a book called Unsafe at any Speed that destroyed the Chevrolet Corvair. Morris Dees viewed southerners the same way that Nader viewed the Corvair.  White Southerners were Fodder at Any Speed to him.  People like Morris Dees have created more racial hate than they have resolved. 

Yes, I grew up in the South, so please dont try to tell me I havent seen these things.  I actually grew up during the times of strife.  I lived in Birmingham and actually happened to see the dogs and fire hoses that the media love to show.  What was done was not right, but was the action taken in Birmingham that has been used to brand that city worse than the things that happened in the North during that period?  No one died in Birmingham... they did in the race riots caused by racial hatred in the North, but we dont talk about that.  Both were unfortunate and uncalled for events, but they happened.  The only cure for all of these situations is for all people, all races, all parts of the country to drop their pretentions about the past and offer a hand to every other American and walk forward.  Forget being Irish American, or Native American, or African American, or any of the other add-ons to American.  If any part of the population takes two steps forward and turns backward for one step, we will never be a united country.  Leave the past behind and embrace the future as a united population.  We will all benefit.      




TahoeSadist -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 7:23:45 AM)

[/quote]
Actually the North fired first, but who is counting, right?
[/quote]

Hmmm so the Rebel controlled batteries around Charleston Harbor that began bombarding Ft. Sumter didn't fire first? The lone fort in the middle of the harbor decided to commit a suicidal act? Could you give a nice, searchable detail on this claim please? History buffs want to know.

Eric




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 7:38:41 AM)

FR:

LOL people are actually calling the Southern Confederacy traitors???  Well you know, only if you put them in the same company as George Washington and Hamilton and Jefferson and all those guys.

Same deal people- establishing self government away from a perceived antiquated and oppressive government.

It just so happens that we won against the British and the South lost.  Democracy in America is an experiment, civil wars occur in governmental experiments, it's what tests the mettle of the people and build it to become a stronger "union."

Anyway, it was the North which blockaded the Annapolis capital building and prevented Maryland from holding session because they KNEW the state would be choosing to secede and it really wouldn't be good to have the seat of the Northern government completely entrenched in enemy territory. 

And for a personal plug, if you want to watch a very interesting TV show that asks the question "What happens to someone who fought for the losing side of a civil war?" go enjoy Firefly, less than $30 this week at Target.




Lordandmaster -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 9:00:17 AM)

Come on.  Even the Confederate historians acknowledged that General Beauregard fired the first shot.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/CMHsumter.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually the North fired first, but who is counting, right?




meatcleaver -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 9:12:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It just so happens that we won against the British and the South lost.  Democracy in America is an experiment, civil wars occur in governmental experiments, it's what tests the mettle of the people and build it to become a stronger "union."



Civil wars and revolutions are almost exclusively precipitated by aspiring middleclasses (merchant classes), people who want their share of power and are almost never about freedom and democracy. The American revolution and civil war were the same as far as I can tell. 90% of the new citizens of the new US citizens didn't have a vote after the war of independence hardly an experiment in democracy. The civil war wasn't fought for democracy either.




juliaoceania -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 9:25:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Come on.  Even the Confederate historians acknowledged that General Beauregard fired the first shot.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/CMHsumter.htm

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Actually the North fired first, but who is counting, right?



What I mean is that the war started on Southern soil. You are correct, my bad




Lordandmaster -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/14/2006 10:20:10 PM)

Actually, Fort Sumter was a federal fort, and therefore wasn't Southern soil.  Southern war planners decided, as a matter of strategy, that it had to be one of the very first targets.  Otherwise it could have been used to help blockade Charleston.

You know--general comment now--one thing people seem to forget when they argue that the Civil War was about states' rights, preserving the Union, and so on, is the reason why the South seceded.  The reason was slavery, above all the growing consensus in the South that with one free state after another being admitted to the Union, eventually they'd lose all political clout if they remained.  They may have couched that as a states'-rights issue, or a brazen assault on their way of life, blah blah blah, but if it weren't for the slavery dispute, there never would have been a Civil War.




leakylee -> RE: The Confederate Flag (9/15/2006 2:25:11 AM)

Using fast reply..
Reguardless of the start or the reasons for the, as my Nana would call it "The War of Northern Aggression". The primary reason for some preservation of the battle flag is fairly simple. There are many families in the south that have deep deep roots. Our culture and traditions go back along ways. My own family traces back into GA and the Carolinas well into the 1700's and even the late 1600's. But that battle flag flew over the members of our families that served and died fighting for what they believed in. Just like in any other war that "Americans" have faught in, they served thier country. Now it may not have been for 100% moral reasons, in our eyes today. But they stood up and served. That memory should be enough to garuntee them a spot of honour, and it should be enough to safegaurd  and preserve thier battle standard.

Lee

edited due to lack of sleep




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