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RE: Not good enough? - 9/14/2006 11:28:29 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

This isn't just a female sub thing. I've been there, too. I was owned by a very well known professional dominant and was living in her house. I couldn't believe it. It made zero sense to me because she was so sought after by so many submissives that I just couldn't fathom why I was the one living in slavery in her house. I really couldn't.

But I realize years later why. I never really dated all that much. I never was all that involved in any type of relationship. I got into the whole submissive lifestyle thing as my only relationship outlet, and she was pretty much the first person to take me that seriously. When you've pretty much ignored relationships and then jump into what seems like a relationship with a rock star, you start to wonder if maybe something's wrong. You don't see the fact that your intelligence, your sense of humor, your life history makes the difference. All you see is the fact that you idololize the person you're with and fall into the whole Groucho Marx mentality of "well, I wouldn't want to be with someone who would want me." It's not because you think less of yourself; you just sometimes don't have anything to compare it to, so you start comparing it to absurdities.

Today, I don't think the same way. Granted, I'm in the same boat before she ever took ownership over me (which was a relationship that ended many years ago, mainly because of those insecurities back then) because I often let my desire to better myself overwhelm the reason why I better myself in the first place. But I know I wouldn't be the same way I was before unless it was emphasized by the person I end up becoming involved with. And if that's the case, then it just means I chose poorly once in a new relationship.

But since that time, I have a lot more self-confidence than I ever had. I'm also older, which sometimes feeds into the self-confidence problem, but I try to push that aside and remember that I have a lot to offer.

But I don't think the problem has any difference between male and female submissives. I really don't.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 41

RE: Not good enough? - 9/14/2006 12:14:04 PM

gentlethistle

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell
Is this common amung subs/slaves? Even if not common, have any of the subs/slaves who hopefully read this ever felt that their Dom/me or Master was too good for them, and deserved better?

I think that what I tried to express in my own relationship wasn't so much that I wasn't 'good enough' but that I couldn't be what he wanted.

And after repeatedly being told that actually I seemed to be doing/being what he wanted just fine...eventually...I realised that the untranslated thought that I was trying to express was that I didn't think I wanted to be what he wanted....or maybe even that I didn't think that he was what I wanted, or more specifically the relationship wasn't. I never did manage to do a satisfactory translation of the thought.

Of course, 'I'm not good enough' might just mean low self-esteem or getting off on being demeaned.....or it might be about 'I don't think I'm up to this' or, actually, 'I don't think this is what I want...' But then I'm just guessing about another person's reactions. What do I know?

Laura

< Message edited by gentlethistle -- 9/14/2006 12:16:10 PM >

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 42

RE: Not good enough? - 9/14/2006 12:28:14 PM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

This may seem a little harsh i would sit her down and say to her why do you say you are no good and worthless and if you really think that way maybe we can work on a way to make you realize your worth to me.maybe give her little tasks she can do to give her a feeling of pride in accmoplishing them. I don't know if this will work but it might. Good luck

Matt's littleone

(in reply to gentlethistle)

Post #: 43

RE: Not good enough? - 9/14/2006 3:06:38 PM

Caitriona

Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

I've seen some very good suggestions here. But I would like to expand on the idea of her working on self esteem issues...perhaps a sort of long term journaling assignment - things I like about myself today, things that make me happy today, ect sort of thing? I like the idea of counseling, especially if there are larger, more long term issues to deal with (abuse, rape, ect).

_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 44

RE: Not good enough? - 9/15/2006 3:48:33 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greetings

you sound so wonderful a dom comes to here to ask for help! no wonder she is shock and wonders why you want her you one of a kind a strong man who is not scare to ask for help, now this is what is wrong with her she has been abuse badly maybe in harm in some way i know the sounds it is me the way i was before i could not even think of someone wanting me i am pretty kind and loving. i know she is all of this, sit dwon with her. ask her why and do not take because ask for an answer that will give you a idea why she feels this way someone said maybe whe wants out someone always says the wrong thing think wrong she wants you so and trust you but she is so scare that you will leave her so when she say i can not believe it or i am not worth you she deep inside is saying please do not leave me like the other treat me kind always as you do i am thinking like she is now, she is not looking for you to abuse her like humilation someone made her feel like dirt and treat her in that way. all it takes is one horrible beating to make a woman crawl and feel like she does she scare you will leave let her know no matter what you have said i will be here. i do respect you so your a master someone who can see and ask for help

i wish you will in all you do

let us know or me know what i was abuse and it too me years to gain what i have now you can help her . take care horadell and to your lady i wish you well

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 45

RE: Not good enough? - 9/15/2006 7:03:01 AM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline

LA,
OMG i love this! It's so wonderfully simple i wonder why i've never thought to do it. May i borrow this idea next time i need my ego stroked?
lil_joy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I occasionally need ego stroking, but I just say "OK, please stroke my ego now and tell me how wonderful I am." LITERALLY, seriously I will say that exact sentence. So next time she says something demeaning you can ask her "Are you just needing me to stroke your ego and tell you how wonderful you are?"
.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 46

RE: Not good enough? - 9/15/2006 7:04:38 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: liljoy
LA,
OMG i love this! It's so wonderfully simple i wonder why i've never thought to do it. May i borrow this idea next time i need my ego stroked?
lil_joy

Please do! :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to liljoy)

Post #: 47

RE: Not good enough? - 9/15/2006 9:01:14 AM

bethane

Posts: 28
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

Sir

does she suffer from low self esteem due to something the past sometimes we subs/slaves feel like that and canot deal with Master telling us we are good or are precious never had it dont know what it is so fight it do yiu follow Sir reverse pschology Sir tell her yes you are rubbish at this you can do it better come on shift your arse buck up that sort of thing turn it round Sir
like Archer says Sir tell her its not her choice nothing is take control tell her she is forbidden to speak dorgotory of your property you expect better from her

Sir i ahve a training Master not owner in the sense collared to his house not him for my protection but i used to say things like this to trainer he flipped it forbade it made girl write a journal does not allow girl to be negative about his property
he pays girl compliments when she has earned them but girl fiond these hard to take and looks for what she did not do to please him sees him as some superior being higher than her more derserving than her of plearsure its sometimes the way we slaves are Sir

nihad

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 48

RE: Not good enough? - 9/15/2006 12:41:52 PM

AutumnChild

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bethane
reverse pschology Sir tell her yes you are rubbish at this you can do it better come on shift your arse buck up that sort of thing turn it round Sir
like Archer says Sir tell her its not her choice nothing is take control tell her she is forbidden to speak dorgotory of your property you expect better from her

Personally, I'd be careful about applying 'reverse psychology' to someone so fragile. I for one would find this approach very damaging.

(in reply to bethane)

Post #: 49

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 3:26:06 AM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

I won't, nor would I ever, apply reverse psycology. She is fragile, and she is delicate. She is not something to experiment on what really works best... hence my asking for ideas. Some I will take, and others I wont. That is the way with all things and all people

(in reply to AutumnChild)

Post #: 50

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:13:15 AM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell

Relatively new to this all, I am still trying to find ways to... well... effectively deal with my current sub when she says, "i am not good enough for You... You deserve better."

She has repeatedly mentioned this, proclaiming that she is worthless, demeaning herself in the process...

Is this common amung subs/slaves? Even if not common, have any of the subs/slaves who hopefully read this ever felt that their Dom/me or Master was too good for them, and deserved better?

I tried tonight to reaffirm her worth, using/altering what I have read of LA's posting elsewhere, that she should measure her worth by what I feel she is... and eventually talked her to sleep, as I usually do. so I am not sure if what I said will stop her thoughts of worthlessness.

Should I just keep reminding her of what she means to me and helping her by asking her what she means to me, rather than tell me? or take another approach to this apparantly deep issue?

my immediate reaction to this was that shes doing it for attention, but it's dysfunctional and manipulative. It's not your job to constantly reaffirm her worth - my gosh how tiring that would be. If she REALLY feels this way she needs ooutside help from a therapist to examine why she feels this way. You did not cause it and you cannot cure it.

Maybe you can make it a "rule" that she cannot put herself down because everytime she does she's denigrating what's yours and you won't tolerate it.... might make her feel better and give her the attention she wants all rolled up in one.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 51

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:26:44 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

YOUR situation here is much more likely just her feeling insecure, and wanting you to spend lots of time and energy making her feel better and reassuring her. It gets really tiring after awhile.

I occasionally need ego stroking, but I just say "OK, please stroke my ego now and tell me how wonderful I am." LITERALLY, seriously I will say that exact sentence. So next time she says something demeaning you can ask her "Are you just needing me to stroke your ego and tell you how wonderful you are?"

If she says no, say ok, and immediately change the subject, ignoring what she just said about her worthlessness. Make it a fun mundane topic like tv or movies. If she brings it up again, repeat the process.

If she says yes, say that you understand, give her a bit of an ego stroke by telling her that you're proud she could open up about that and that you DO value her highly and that she needs to find value in herself.

And if this continues to come up (which it likely will) point out to her that she's basically saying that YOU would choose to be in a relationship with someoen worthless and that she obviously doesn't feel like YOU make good choices in partners and must not be very worthy yourself. This will hopefully horrify her and give you a chance to reshape her perspective.

This to me is great advice....

I think many are seeking to build the self-esteem and confidence... which is good... but it is also to change her perspective/judgement.

this approach works over the course of time and handled with sensitivity and compassion. I know works since i do similar things

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 52

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:34:14 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Horadell
I see your point... is it bad that I see it and I do it anyways? She cries out for attention and I give it to her. Through giving it to her, she gives me attention as well. At the same time that she puts herself down, using a variety of demeaning terms, she also pushes me up. I am often left feeling better about myself too.

There is constructive enhancing relationship type of attention.... and then there is destructive diminishing relationship type of attention.

I suggest.. that if you feel good about the attention you both are getting then it is the former...but if the attention leaves you feeling negative that it is the latter... and you need to change the behaviors of yourself and your girl

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 53

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:38:23 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darke

Obv, it is important to be supportive of one who has issues, and guide them towards help, s many have suggested. However, there comes a point where a Dom has to be well, Domly, and point out:

A.) The inherent oxymoron in what she says-point out that if I am the great Dom you purport to be unworthy of, then you should trust Me, trust Me for choosing you for the qualities I saw in you, and understand that if you think I am wrong, you are naysaying not only My property but My judgement as well.

B.) Point out that the constant fishing is not a way I prefer to spend My time, and if I am a good-Dom-of-which-you-are-unworthy, and wish to bring Me happiness, drama and constant fishing are not the ways do it, are in point of fact actively upsetting.

Good advice..... I would also had that if the girl continues or shows no growth of overcoming the behaviors... then I have to quesition the integrity of the "i am not worthy".... I would begin to see...."I want your attention... so I am going to manipulate you to get it by feeling sorry for myself"

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Darke)

Post #: 54

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:51:08 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: karensgirl
i know it causes her discomfort perhaps even pain when i put myself down.

I can't speak for your Mistress... but I know it causes me alot of negative feelings when one of my girls puts themself down. I would say that in putting themselves down... they are also putting me down at the same time.

quote:

my issues were inherited by her from previous relationships and taken on knowingly by her and she charishes me as hers in ways i had only drempt of before. My true fear is not that i am not good enough, it is that she will leave me and then i will once again be incomplete which i would completely blame myself.

This is an excellent point.... it's not some much what the words indicate but what is motivating them. The Fear of Abandonment that will validate all these negative views of oneself. Your point raises the point that it is not so narrow of a problem in considering it poor self-esteem. The poor self-esteem is rooted there for a reason.... in your case and the case of many... one needs to attack the cause of the symptoms and not the symptoms themselves. In short... low self-esteem is a symptom of the issues not a cause of them.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to karensgirl)

Post #: 55

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 9:59:48 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I will make one finally point...

some individuals are afraid of success and responsibility. If she admits that she is worthy of you then she has accepted the fact that she should live up to certain standards and expectations. Holding on to "I am not worthy for you" gives her the excuse to fail you. She fails... well of course I fail you... it is cause I am not worthy of you! So... not only can Fear of Abandoment be a factor... but a Fear of Living to Expectations

editted to add. .... this would be very difficult cycle to break

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 9/16/2006 10:00:31 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Horadell)

Post #: 56

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 10:40:54 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Interesting. My mother used to tell my brothers and me that if we said things like "I'm no good" THAT was the proper example of using God's name in vain. The idea being we are all creatures of God and to declare His work no good...well...

bearlee

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 57

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 3:43:45 PM

jonathan

Posts: 196
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pqwinny

some people like to Tango others prefer Swing and some enjoy the Dance of Co-dependence. It can offer a comfortable familiarity in it's discomfort.

With the former dances, when the music stops the dancers do too. With the latter only the dancers can make the music stop.

Been there, burned the T-shirt!

Alleluia, pqwinny! my T-shirt's a pile of ashes, too. i've noticed an epidemic of 'worthless sub' posts the last couple of days. Is there a [people] virus making the rounds?

i've never thought i wasn't good enough and i've never been comfortable with a Domme that has to treat me that way. It's OK, i didn't succumb to that attitude and here i am, Owned. She wouldn't want me if i didn't have a full complement of functional gray matter.

_____________________________

jonathan
http://www.slaveregister.com/000-515-587

"But in purple, i am stunning!"
"Before You slip into unconsciousness, i'd like to have another kiss, another flashing chance at bliss, another kiss, another kiss"

(in reply to pqwinny)

Post #: 58

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 4:48:59 PM

Horadell

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: SW Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I will make one finally point...

some individuals are afraid of success and responsibility. If she admits that she is worthy of you then she has accepted the fact that she should live up to certain standards and expectations. Holding on to "I am not worthy for you" gives her the excuse to fail you. She fails... well of course I fail you... it is cause I am not worthy of you! So... not only can Fear of Abandoment be a factor... but a Fear of Living to Expectations

editted to add. .... this would be very difficult cycle to break

I never thought of it that way... I wish I had. You could have a very good point.

There are not really a large list of bounderies of what are and are not okay. Simply because, well... there aren't. I have talked to her about this situation and I have incorperated a lot of the things that are being said into my talks with her on this subject. By this wednesday, she will have completed a list of, "Why I really love him and want his as my Dom, and Why I think he loves me and wants me as his submissive." And I will have completed the same of her.

I figure, with her unable to see what I see in her, and possibly me unable to see what she sees in me... If we both tell each other why we THINK the other wants to be with us, and then we fill in the blanks, we can see, not only what we thought, but then see what each other feels as well...

If she thinks I love her for something I haven't noticed... and the same the other way...
Anyways, Thanks for more insight.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 59

RE: Not good enough? - 9/16/2006 6:26:11 PM

krikket

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

When i said something similar, my Master asked me why i thought so little of him, to which i replied...huh???

He said that since he had chosen me, perhaps i doubted his judgment.

Between those two ideas, and finally his anger and his "forbidding" me to say anything like that outside, and that he used to have me make list, after list, after list, of my good qualities...i finally learned to trust his word.. It was a big difference inside me, and one i hope i still carry with me to this day.

jimini

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 60

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