Breaking (Full Version)

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TemptingNviceSub -> Breaking (9/13/2006 7:26:24 PM)

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting



mstrjx -> RE: Breaking (9/13/2006 7:45:17 PM)

I suppose if it were a habit that needed fixing 'badly' then that might be an appropriate word.  Otherwise, it's just part of training.  'Breaking' in that sense seems a little harsh.

Another use of 'break' occurs in a top/bottom sense when the top does something either physically or mentally causing the bottom to lose their self-control (in a sense), causing some sort of 'breakdown'.  Wracking sobs, etc.  Sending them over a current pain tolerance limit or something of the sort.

The latter would have to be looked for in advance during negotiation, or it starts to resemble abuse.

Jeff



Estring -> RE: Breaking (9/13/2006 8:05:46 PM)

I don't consider training a slave "my way" as breaking her. Just as changing jobs and being retrained in a new job isn't being broken.
My slave actually had no experience before me, so she only knows "my way". But I didn't need to break her.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Breaking (9/13/2006 8:13:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting

Reposted:
Lots of people need breaking, or at least breaking of lots of bad habits. I had to break my local partner of a LOT of things before we could become serious together.

Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374431/mpage_2/key_breaking/tm.htm#374702
slaves being broken

http://www.collarchat.com/m_282350/mpage_1/key_breaking/tm.htm#282444
breaking

http://www.collarchat.com/m_189190/mpage_3/key_breaking/tm.htm#191277
breaking stubbornness




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Breaking (9/13/2006 8:26:54 PM)

Nods....I see so "breaking" can be an interpretive thing not necessarily a negative.When I heard the term ,it just sort of disturbed me that someone would wish to break something of value to them...to me breaking is destruction not necessarily reconstruction...thank you for the link ups LA...Tempting



raiken -> RE: Breaking (9/13/2006 9:50:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting

Reposted:
Lots of people need breaking, or at least breaking of lots of bad habits. I had to break my local partner of a LOT of things before we could become serious together.

Some doms also have a "break and remold" fetish thing going as well. The reality is that breaking someone down and bringing them up again is a huge time and energy intensive operation that few have the skill and ability to do well.

But breaking someone down and building them up is certainly possible, and in some cases beneficial.



Hmmm...brings me back to that ole militeristic train of thought...



Padriag -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 12:52:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting

And the short answer is.... No.

Like Estring I don't view it as "breaking", its just retraining for a new job, no more or less.  Some previous "job" skills may transfer over directly, some will not, some may with some "modification".  Part of my job is assessing existing skills, training and knowledge and then guiding her through the retraining process.  Simple as that.



IronBear -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 2:46:38 AM)

In my opinion all those who favout "Breaking" need top have their nippmes and clits/testied nailed to a wooden cross and electricity applied tikll their bitsnpieces are char fried. I'll guarantee that they will be broken beyond help.... I've trained many dogs and been with animal trainers. not one ever broke an animal and thus destroying it's spirit. the objective is TRAINING. Any student of behavoural science learns this.... Any one who talks about breaking a sub/slave in my physical presence will be knee capped within 48 hours (Or something equally amusing)



raiken -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 6:40:03 AM)

IronBear...well said.
 
A thought...There are always those who seem to get carried away with having total control...almost like turning into mad scientists or something! Testing, prodding, pushing, then the attempt at breaking down, instead of building up, the very one who trusts them.   Then there are those who become their subs self appointed shrink, counselor or therapist, who prescribe that ole "breaking" treatment, thinking they are capable of rebuilding the spirit of another human being, as if they had specialized training for this type of thing.  Some folks just seem to let the power trip go to their heads.  If the sub is new, she learns life's lessons and wises up quickly, or she is in for one hellacious ride.



happypervert -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 6:42:56 AM)

Maybe it is just me, but I think there is another spin on the term "breaking".

I think early in relationships a submissive will naturally resist or hold parts of herself back, and so there is some breaking of this resistance and taking those parts from her. A simple example can come the first time she is ordered to do something she doesn't like or want to do, but you give her no choice and she obeys; the next time the resistance is lower or gone.

I think the anaolgy to breaking a horse works here because the horse isn't being psychologically damaged, it is merely being brought under control. Maybe it is just quibbling over semantics, but I don't see this as the same as training because that implies only that skills are being learned.

Looking at it this way I think breaking is one thing that distinguishes D/s from vanilla relationships and it is some of the most fun because that is when the power is being handed over.  



amayos -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 7:57:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting


I am assuming you mean "break" during training as to subdue cognitive and emotional resistance; to mold. To that end, yes. Breaking a human in the civilized world is an art of mixed mediums, and I think some get the wrong idea when hearing the word uttered. Few of us have the option of imposing complete isolation and brutality upon one we seek to humble through the imposition of rigid method alone, and even if this were so, there is a considerable degree of fine-tuning and reinforcement needed to sustain a capture bond in humans.

From my experience, so often what is needed is not a hammer, but a fine needle. What I am looking for is that velvety tentacle of the ego which rises from the subconscious. When I talk of breaking someone in general, it usually means this process—which can take some time, even with those who appear to be completely "submissive" on the surface.




OhReallyNow -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 10:07:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

A question arose in me when I read something in another thread that had me to wondering?...When a Dominant takes on a new submissive and he is training her "his" way do you look upon it as "breaking her"?..Tempting

for this slave, Master referred to it as 'showing you MY way' [:)]



IronBear -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 10:36:40 AM)

A new girl is collared to The House of Iron Bear. She has been interviewed and several interview later she is ready for a House Collar. She has a copy of the House of iron Bear manefesto showing all she need to know and what is expected of her. She also has signed a form sstating that she has read and understands the Manifesto.. Now her training starts. Like a mild form of boot camp in some ways. her strengths and weeknesses has already been assessed. She knows the primary servise is infact service.domestic duties. She has been assessed along with one of the interviews if she will be sexually involved with the gentry or not, if she will be involved with BDSM or not. If so her pubic area is shaved as part of the collaring and is she is to be involved sexually she is taken sexually at her collering also. These sub assessments and assignmenmts may be altered at any time according to her service contract..No breakling just a strictv regeme of training and service. the aim is not perfection but the seeking of perfection..... Again No breaking but a nurturing, encouraging and training under strict rules.. her spirit is used to direct her and should never be broken. Whe should it for it can be harnessed.

Just my thoughts and the game plan for the House of Iron Bear...



LadyHugs -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 10:50:16 AM)

Dear TemptingNviceSub, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Training and the term 'breaking' in a slave are terms often used but, often cause for misunderstanding.
 
As a equestrian, a trainer and instructor, the savage breaking of horses of old ways have been replaced with kinder practices.  Consistancy is one element of training, as to have a 'common' understanding.  Each que means something to the horse, thus establishing a silent dialog between horse and rider, making difficult dressage movements, such as the piaffe or half-pass look easy but, it took patience and repeated ques to establish this language.  The shift of body weight on the horse's back the tightening if fingers all mean something to the horse.
Discipline is to keep steadfast in the horse's need to stay within the rules given by the rider.

That said, humans have free will and have more senses, abilities and the like than horses and dogs but, all three have reasoning, feelings, as well as many more qualities.

In 'breaking a habit' it really is replacing a bad habit with a new habit.
Training is taking the Master/Mistress' way of doing things within their given boundaries/fence/show ring, etc., and operating in concert with the wishes of the Master/Mistress.  Both satisfied and enjoying the freedom to operate within them, each are rewarded; regardless if human or horse/dog.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Mavis -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 11:28:56 AM)

i've always looked at it as two different things...

Breaking the will..  which is a good thing for some, including me.. appropriate to training

Break the spirit?  bad thing.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 6:29:17 PM)

Thank you all so much for the replies. I believe I am beginning to understand what you all are trying to say.Now I am prepared for if and when a Dominant says he will be "breaking me", that I do not take umbrage and find a 2x4 to clonk him on the head with! [:D].......Tempting



Mavis -> RE: Breaking (9/14/2006 7:43:42 PM)

hey, there's a kink for that!  google "2x4 head clonking"...

but seriously, like anything,  communication, get those terms defined, and make sure you know the overal goal and the intent..  Sometimes people use terms we heard before in a negative context without meaning the same thing.



happypervert -> RE: Breaking (9/15/2006 7:28:13 AM)

quote:

Now I am prepared for if and when a Dominant says he will be "breaking me", that I do not take umbrage and find a 2x4 to clonk him on the head with!

Wait a minute! Don't assume that the dominant means the same thing as any of us. If anything, the discussion here shows there are a variety of interpretations of this word so you should ask what the dominant means who uses it. You could be in for a surprise, either pleasant or unpleasant, so some clonking on the head may still result.



OhReallyNow -> RE: Breaking (9/15/2006 7:30:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

Now I am prepared for if and when a Dominant says he will be "breaking me", that I do not take umbrage and find a 2x4 to clonk him on the head with!

Wait a minute! Don't assume that the dominant means the same thing as any of us. If anything, the discussion here shows there are a variety of interpretations of this word so you should ask what the dominant means who uses it. You could be in for a surprise, either pleasant or unpleasant, so some clonking on the head may still result.

this slave would agree with this. not all refer to breaking in the same manner. it is important to get an explicit explanation from the one whom you are in contact with



LadyHugs -> RE: Breaking (9/15/2006 8:56:38 AM)

Dear Mavis, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
You wrote;
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i've always looked at it as two different things...

Breaking the will..  which is a good thing for some, including me.. appropriate to training

Break the spirit?  bad thing.


Breaking the will in my mind's eye is not wise.  Each person has a 'will' that centers from the soul, spirit and connects to the logic, reasoning, the choice process.  Will is making choices, determination of goals, behavior, attitude and such.  The word "break" or "broken" is so final in my mind's eye.  I rather have the slave hear from the Master/Mistress the logic or to understand why my way should be followed--true, it may not be their choice but, they will have understanding as to choose to comply not forced and broken in any way, as humans will always have feelings and logic and prefer to choose, knowing the consequences.  It is knowing the consequences that the slave then 'wills' themselves into complying. 
 
Breaking one's will, in my mind's eye seems closer to Prisoner of War, treatment as to control individuals and or a group of individuals, as to not raise up in mass numbers as to overrun the camp and it's guards.  It was done with negativity and cruelty.  Fear, frustration, beating down is how it was done.  So, in my mind's eye, I wish to distance myself from controller behavior and stay in the light of dominant power which is more positive in my mind's eye.  I don't wish to be a prison guard or unusually cruel.  I don't wish to see individuals identifying as slaves as 'the quit' sort or 'give up' through breaking their will.
 
In my mind's eye will is connected to the spirit.  Both are parallel forces to which work within the energy.  It puts the intent into the spirit and the spirit into the intent.  In my training, I don't break either the will or spirit but, I give tools for the slave to master their will and spirit.  People are individuals to which are precious and unique.  If I need to break wills and spirits, they are not the slave for me.  The slave in my mind's eye, have already internally processed the consequences of submission and surrender to that, in a manner that has been untampered with by me.  Surrendering is submission, but that does not mean that will and spirit has totally surrendered but, readjusted and shifted into a mental, spiritual, emotional and physical process to accept that another has been placed in charge, giving them a relief from that responsibility.
 
It is will, that keeps one honest or dishonest, it is will that causes some of us to be the best of our nature; just as some will to be the worst of theirs.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



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