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RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 2:44:37 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

What i enjoy most about being submissive is the feeling of value, worth and usefullness it provides. If i felt the opposite i think i would need therapy more than i would need a Dom.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 21

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 3:55:41 AM

maledave777

Posts: 67
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

whtsubf4DOM,
I do not have a Mistress yet. I know that when I find her that she will always be superior to me. I feel this is part of being submissive to her. I want to treat her with respect and that she rules over me.

I do have confidence and desire to be of value to her. I do feel that she wants me not to think of myself as being worthless and of no value. I feel she wants me to be intelligence and to be able to think on my own sometimes. You should always increase your skills in serving to be of more value. Some Mistresses have coin the phase “diamond in the rough” and I desire to be one.

I feel that you can have strong confidence of being of value to a Master or Mistress and still be very submissive to them. You should be humble in your service to them. I feel they would praise you for doing well. I feel this in part would help to build up your self-worth.

dave

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 22

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 4:56:53 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

It sounds a wee bit as though you felt your trial runs at being submissive didn't work out because you didn't have low enough self esteem.. That at some point you said to yourself "I am worth more than this" and by deduction, kind of extrapolated that other submissives must have worth issues in order to be happily submissive.

i would guess you weren't right in the sub role because .. it's just not right for you. Not because you didn't have self esteem and worth issues "like they do".

quote:

My guess would be that there are some real issues and questions of self-worth. Don't you think?

Uhm.. no. Will say a lot of people feel some self esteem issues if they can't find their niche in life, but more people solve that by exploring nilla interests than deciding to become subs or slaves. Or Switches, or Doms or Dommes. i will say there are a fair number of those who seek the Dom/mes role because they need the validation of someone who will bow down to them.

Then the question would be better suited for the Masters section.. "Do You have self esteen issues and came into this lifestyle because it was the only way You could get someone to look up to You?"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 23

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 5:39:56 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I'm naturally a people pleaser, however in vanilla relationships I felt used and taken advantage of. With him, I feel of more worth because he does see how much I try to make him happy and he appreciates it. I love him so of course I'm devastated if he's angry or upset with me and I'm happy when he says something flattering or praising. Why wouldn't I want my partner to be pleased by the things I do?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 24

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 6:46:39 AM

RedSavageSlave

Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

Ok, here is a question for all you subs out there. Do most subs feel a sense of worthlessness, uselessness and like they are NOTHING when they submit to a Master or Mistress?

Is that feeling of worthlessnes something real that subs feel at the very core of their being? Is it ultimately what drives subs to submit and commit their lives to a Dom/me? If so, to what degree do subs build up that self-worth with a Master/Mistress, especially in BDSM?

No
Not always but some do I suppose
For some it is
it is built up to the degree that the said Master/Mistress/sub/slave cares to develop it

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 25

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 7:23:14 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

It sounds a wee bit as though you felt your trial runs at being submissive didn't work out because you didn't have low enough self esteem.. That at some point you said to yourself "I am worth more than this" and by deduction, kind of extrapolated that other submissives must have worth issues in order to be happily submissive.

I think you are right Mavis, and I think that many vanilla people would believe this on the outside looking in, so when I read her post I read it like she was a vanilla person who has experienced more than bedroom submission and it did not jive with her. Not all people that have submissive fantasies are submissives after all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mavis)

Post #: 26

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 9:45:26 AM

Sub03

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

Ok, here is a question for all you subs out there. Do most subs feel a sense of worthlessness, uselessness and like they are NOTHING when they submit to a Master or Mistress?
Nope, if I was worthless and useless my Master wouldnt be using me. My Master makes me feel like the single most important, most valuable and cherished person. Not one bit worthless.

Is that feeling of worthlessnes something real that subs feel at the very core of their being?
No again, I dont feel worthless one bit. If anything I feel powerful, it takes a strong person to submit, to give away all control to someone else, to allow someone else to make all the decisions.

Is it ultimately what drives subs to submit and commit their lives to a Dom/me? If so, to what degree do subs build up that self-worth with a Master/Mistress, especially in BDSM?
What drives me to submit is myself and my desire to please my Master and make him as happy as he has made me.

< Message edited by Sub03 -- 9/15/2006 9:48:31 AM >

_____________________________

owned by painarranger

I am His loyal slave

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 27

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 10:01:27 AM

Sub03

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

ok ok! just for the record, my question was not about me. I DO NOT feel worthless.

Once again, I have said this before....Although my screen name doesn't indicate it, I am a Domme to one man, nobody else. I started as a submissive but found I was too strong-willed for that. (I guess i need to change my screen name to save confusion, but really the only reason I come on this site anymore is for the message board)

Anyway, the intent of my question was not to ask how subs feel when they are serving their Master/Mistress. I, too, agree that the Master should be making the subs feel worthy. I wanted to know the specific feelings they had about themselves before they took a leap into this lifestyle. I want HONEST answers. What makes a sub want to fully serve a Master/Mistress? What would want to make subs just bow to another person and/or become someone's "property"?
I cant answer for everyone only myself; what makes me want to submit and belong to another is simply a need that I have within me. It is what makes me happy, what I enjoy doing and where I feel at home. When I am not serving another I feel that a part of me is missing, but I do not feel worthless.

Do they come to this lifestyle feeling worthless or totally self confident? My guess would be that there are some real issues and questions of self-worth. Don't you think?
No I dont think so, I didnt come to this lifestyle feeling worthless one bit and im not planning on leaving it feeling worthless either. I am and always will be a confident person. Just because I submit to another dosent mean that I do it because I feel worthless. I do it because it is what I enjoy doing and what makes me happy.

From what i've read, it sounds like it's almost intoxicating to get approval from your Master/Mistress when you do something right. If it's not a self-worth issue upon entering, then why do they cling so much to the praise that they may or may not get on a regular basis?
Getting approval from your Master/Mistress/Dom/me etc. is a very nice thing and it does make me feel very good. Do I like it because I feel worthless without it?? No I like it because it means that what I have done pleased my Master and that I have done good. It means that I have achieved my goal of pleasing him. Do I have to hear it to feel valuable? No, I know im valuable and cherished, my Master makes me feel that way everyday without having to say anything.

_____________________________

owned by painarranger

I am His loyal slave

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 28

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 10:44:06 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I use praise to build-up a sub/slave's sense of self worth.
It's not about abuse to me.
I figure that the sub/slave wants to be there for my use and I appreciate it and let them know it when they're performing well.
What good would a sub/slave be who has no sense of self worth?

(in reply to Sub03)

Post #: 29

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 4:12:06 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Actually I feel very proud when I am submitting to my Master. I have never had feelings of worthlessness.

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 30

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 9:18:34 PM

collegebeauty

Posts: 41
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

I have a very strong self-esteem. I like myself! During a scene of intense humiliation, where a Dom takes me down to nothing, sure, in that moment, I feel like nothing. However, when the scene is over, and I'm out of the moment, I'm me again and I like me again. Of course, it helps that I'll only play with a Dom I've known for some time and can trust to help bring me back up. But if I felt worthless all the time, humiliation/degredation scenes wouldn't be fun, because they wouldn't be taking me anywhere new. They're great because when I come back up, I'm reminded all over again how special I am and of the fact that I'm not nothing!

_____________________________

Beauty

"I am always doing things I can't do, that's how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

"Every person, all the events of your life are there because you have drawn them there. What you choose to do with them is up to you." - Richard Bach

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 31

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/15/2006 10:03:28 PM

SunnyTawse

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: maledave777

whtsubf4DOM,
I do not have a Mistress yet. I know that when I find her that she will always be superior to me. I feel this is part of being submissive to her. I want to treat her with respect and that she rules over me.

I do have confidence and desire to be of value to her. I do feel that she wants me not to think of myself as being worthless and of no value. I feel she wants me to be intelligence and to be able to think on my own sometimes. You should always increase your skills in serving to be of more value. Some Mistresses have coin the phase “diamond in the rough” and I desire to be one.

I feel that you can have strong confidence of being of value to a Master or Mistress and still be very submissive to them. You should be humble in your service to them. I feel they would praise you for doing well. I feel this in part would help to build up your self-worth.

dave

I very much agree with most of what you say. What's the point of owning someone who feels they're worthless? Only someone with a great deal of personal power can submit to the intensity of the power exchange I desire. Over <mumble,mumble> years I have had three longer-term submissives (five years plus) and two shorter-term submissives, and none of them have ever spoken or behaved as if they saw themselves as worthless.

The only thing I disagree with you about is the issue of superiority. I am not superior to my submissive; I am only dominant to him or her. We each contribute our own part to the dynamic, and without both of us, there would be no dynamic.

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina

My demons are at the door. They want to
know if I can come out to play. -- LM

(in reply to maledave777)

Post #: 32

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/18/2006 4:35:35 AM

patina

Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline

I am a newbie so I will give my reason. Partly it is the way you are raised. The culture I was raised in was men were it and women had 2 jobs making babies and taking care of the house and all in it. The women never raised their voices, or argued w/ a man, they always deferred to the men except those outside the family.
We as females learned to derive our pleasure from pleasing the men so to become a sub/slave seems natural in some ways but then again as he is outside the family I want to rebell, so until the feelings of love bind it will be a battle of wills.
does this help any

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 33

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/18/2006 12:03:01 PM

sleazybutterfly

Posts: 2801
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline

I can't say that I have. I think there can be times you are made to feel that way, but it's just part of play and once it's over.. it's over.

I am worth a lot, and would never submit myself to anyone that didn't agree with that and treat me as such.

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 34

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/18/2006 12:56:06 PM

Ladyofthemanor

Posts: 51
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caitriona

Never. My Dom makes me feel like the single most cherished, beautiful and loved woman in the world. I wouldn't have it any other way.

i couldn't have put it better...Ditto here!!!

slavelilly

(in reply to Caitriona)

Post #: 35

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/18/2006 7:01:11 PM

Shalyn

Posts: 55
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: TN
Status: offline

I also feel very proud when submitting to my Dom. The only time i feel bad in any way about it is when i let Him down. However, He is also my fiance and i am more than happy to please Him. And knowing that i please Him, makes me happy.

(in reply to Ladyofthemanor)

Post #: 36

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/18/2006 7:14:23 PM

Tapestry

Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM
Ok, here is a question for all you subs out there. Do most subs feel a sense of worthlessness, uselessness and like they are NOTHING when they submit to a Master or Mistress?
Is that feeling of worthlessnes something real that subs feel at the very core of their being? Is it ultimately what drives subs to submit and commit their lives to a Dom/me? If so, to what degree do subs build up that self-worth with a Master/Mistress, especially in BDSM?

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM
ok ok! just for the record, my question was not about me. I DO NOT feel worthless.
Once again, I have said this before....Although my screen name doesn't indicate it, I am a Domme to one man, nobody else. I started as a submissive but found I was too strong-willed for that. (I guess i need to change my screen name to save confusion, but really the only reason I come on this site anymore is for the message board)
Anyway, the intent of my question was not to ask how subs feel when they are serving their Master/Mistress. I, too, agree that the Master should be making the subs feel worthy. I wanted to know the specific feelings they had about themselves before they took a leap into this lifestyle. I want HONEST answers. What makes a sub want to fully serve a Master/Mistress? What would want to make subs just bow to another person and/or become someone's "property"? Do they come to this lifestyle feeling worthless or totally self confident? My guess would be that there are some real issues and questions of self-worth. Don't you think?
From what i've read, it sounds like it's almost intoxicating to get approval from your Master/Mistress when you do something right. If it's not a self-worth issue upon entering, then why do they cling so much to the praise that they may or may not get on a regular basis?

Well, none of us can answer for "most" of us. And in truth every person is different. I have never, before, during, nor after submission, felt like NOTHING. I have never felt worthless, ever. As LA so aptly said, those who deal with feelings of worthlessness are not good candidates for stable relationships. My need to submit has nothing to do with self-esteem issues, rather, it is simply the way I am, the way I always have been, and I suspect, the way I always will be. Prior to discovering BDSM, I was in an abusive marriage. Why? Because somewhere deep inside it fulfilled my need to submit. However, as soon as the man began to hurt our son, I put an end to the marriage. And he fought me tooth and nail, and still does. It took more strength and inner fortitude and a greater sense of self than you can imagine to get my son and myself free.

Once I found the lifestyle, I felt validated in a strong way. And knew that I had found a healthy way to fulfill my desire to submit. I suspect that it can work the same way for dominant people finding the lifestyle, and realizing that they now have a healthy way to fulfill their need to dominate, rather than bullying and abusing others. The whole point, of course, being mutually consensual activities.

Furthermore, I'm not some little wallflower waiting to be dominated. I choose who I submit to, always have, and chose my Master with great care. That is the ultimate control, my choice who I submit to, who I serve. And that brings Him the ultimate honor, knowing that i could have chosen differently, but chose Him. Likewise, He chose me, and that is the ultimate honor as well.

Some of the replies I've read here do concern me. Those who are made to feel wonderful and worthwhile by their dominants/masters/owners. Don't get me wrong, Master is very good at letting me know if i have pleased Him, and that does bring me pleasure, i like to serve Him and please Him. But my sense of self-worth does not come from Him or my service to Him. Even if I were "between" Masters, I would still have a strong sense of self-worth. Self-worth is something we have because we exist, and not something that is contingent upon doing well or being good, or any other conditions. Self-worth is unconditional.

I really disagree with the idea that the dominant SHOULD be making their submissive feel worthy. They should certainly observe common courtesies and express appreciation for a job well done, and help one to improve when needed. But having self-worth comes from within, not from without.

And like Mavis, I certainly think that all of us, regardless of orientation, bring some issues with us wherever we go, not just to the lifestyle, but in all areas of life. How can a dominant who is dealing with issues themselves, possibly give me self-worth too? And really, do we ever believe anyone when they tell us how wonderful we are? No of course not, we just think they don't know the real us! Self-worth must come from within.

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 37

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/19/2006 5:04:10 PM

AutumnChild

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/14/2006
Status: offline

Hmmm. Interesting

Occassionally, there is the *illusion* of my being 'nothing'. However, I know this is pure illusion...almost a form of role-play. A mask that He adopts, the better to degrade me, which usually leads to a LOT of fun for both of us.

However, I always know that when scene stops he will hug and kiss and stroke me, and tell me how proud he is. I know at the core of my being that we have a mutual respect for one another. I wouldn't be involved with him if I didn't feel this.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 38

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/19/2006 8:16:00 PM

SweetEscravo

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

I've never experienced heavy humiliation or anything like that, but no dom has ever made me feel worthless. I don't think that's a very healthy feeling for a sub to experience, unless it's something they're into. The doms I've been with have always been intent on building me up as a sub, rather than tearing me down.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 39

RE: Self image when submitting to Master/Mistress - 9/20/2006 12:10:26 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: whtsubf4DOM

Ok, here is a question for all you subs out there. Do most subs feel a sense of worthlessness, uselessness and like they are NOTHING when they submit to a Master or Mistress?

Sure, sometimes. There are other times when I feel like I'm a Goddess, a priceless artifact with value beyond compare .. mostly though, it's usually somewhere between those two extremes and we just muddle through day to day as that day's energy dictates.

quote:

Is that feeling of worthlessnes something real that subs feel at the very core of their being?

Not so much anymore. (More along the lines of helpless, not worthless .. a point brought sorely home fairly recently.) Now days, though, it's generally scene related. Objectification is a favored scene, but the awareness that it 'is' a scene is always there. That's the dessert to the meat that is our D/s life. The play to go along with the living part.. the 'fun' factor as it were. :)

It used to be different for me. When you grow up being constantly told that you're never good enough, you do start to believe it after a while and it can take a good long time to figure out it's all relative and considering the source is a viable course of action. Ultimately, self-esteem did, indeed, come from myself. It wasn't something which could be instilled in me from an outside source. I had to find it out for myself. It was the only way I could really believe it. Being bright or pretty or funny wasn't enough .. ever.. only being 'perfect' was enough. As there is no such animal, it made things pretty difficult for me (self-inflicted after years of accepting outside influences that lead to self-abuse.. but that's another thread).

quote:

Is it ultimately what drives subs to submit and commit their lives to a Dom/me?

Oh, hell no. Not for me. What drove me to submission in the first place was lust and fantasy fulfillment. I got to have my cake and eat it too, the entire sterotypical 'hell, I can enjoy myself because it's all 'forced' on me.' Worked, too, for a while. Then I figured out that while it was a lot of fun, it wasn't 'quite' what I was looking for.. and certainly not what I needed to thrive in life. Figuring out what I 'did' need is what lead me to where I'm at today which is content with myself and honored to be in service to Himself.. but, as I state in my profile, he's not my Earth and air, he is just a man.. but he's a good man and I'm lucky to belong to him.

quote:

If so, to what degree do subs build up that self-worth with a Master/Mistress, especially in BDSM?

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding this part of the question. Getting a reality check, growing up (as in maturing), self-accecptance.. all that stuff had to take place before I was able to have a sustainable relationship of any type. I am a much healthier (mentally) human than I was twenty years ago.. and hopefully I'll be even better 20 years from now. It was and is a process though and if I hadn't gone through that process, I wouldn't have the clarity and understanding of myself which I enjoy today. I'm still learning too, because I find the whole subject of humans generally fascinating, and being one myself, it only stands to reason I'd like to get to know me most of all because I spend so damn much time with me! I've always been of the opinion that one can't serve well unless they know who they are serving.. but just as important, I believe they must know themselves even better in order to be able to serve .. that's the only way I know what I am capable of doing. Ultimately, I know, for a fact, that one can start out feeling (or perhaps 'being) worthless and end up feeling (and being!) quite priceless.. such is the stuff of which growth is made.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to whtsubf4DOM)

Post #: 40

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