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RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 9:49:30 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

I never left a family party and felt disoriented or disconnected. I never left a day at the lake and questioned my worth to my friends. I never left a night out with friends and came home unable to think rationally, or crying without reason. Maybe you've never experienced it or had a sub who did, but plenty of us know these feelings well. The combination of heavy physical/emotional scenes have to be doing SOMETHING to your body and your mind beyond the immediate reaction. Why does that seem so implausible to you?


The OP said she felt moody and depressed, not "disoriented", "disconnected," "irrational," etc etc. What you describe sounds far more extreme that what the OP claims to be experiencing.  She also said she feels it when she has to leave to come home, specifically.  Not after scening.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to ChainedExistence)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 9:54:56 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Surprised LA hasn't posted her long list of sub drop threads yet.  There have been several good discussions.

(in reply to pineapplesub)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:11:20 AM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		No offense, but subdrop is not 'missing someone' or 'returning to regular life' is a physiological and psychological reaction to stimuli and a result of a withdrawl from chemical wash produced in the blood stream, as well as other factors.
While Val may be suffering from simply missing her Master, she approached the topic as SubDrop which is why I posted the article.

QUOTE

Corrupted-
I'm going to go with tiger on this one.  I have often thought "Subdrop" was no more than being taken out of the ordinary for a short time, then having to go home, alone, to face the reality of every day life.

UNQUOTE

Subdrop isn't limited to people who do not live with a partner, or who play online, or who play causally. Submissives in 24/7 relationships also suffer with this issue.

Those who do not experience SubDrop are indeed lucky, but for those that have it is a very REAL issue, please don't discount it.

Sincerely
Silver

< Message edited by Silvermoon -- 9/17/2006 10:17:37 AM >

_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:26:58 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		What makes you so sure that "missing someone" or "returning to regular life" and "a physiological and psychological reaction to stimuli" aren't just two different ways of saying the same thing?

The fact that people in long-distance relationships tend to have more intense sub drop makes me think "missing someone"--however you want to express that physiologically--has to be part of the whole experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

No offense, but subdrop is not 'missing someone' or 'returning to regular life' is a physiological and psychological reaction to stimuli and a result of a withdrawl from chemical wash produced in the blood stream, as well as other factors.

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:40:08 AM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		I think you'd have to read the previous posts.

_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:43:15 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Uh huh, I did.  The essence of your explanation is this sentence:

quote:

During a scene or sexual arousal there is a measurable release and rise of several hormones (example: adrenalin, endorphins, oxytocin) into your blood stream.


That may explain some of it, but it doesn't explain why, as I've observed, people in long-distance relationships tend to drop harder.  There's more to it than endorphins.

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:56:55 AM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		Ah I see, ok I misread, my appologies... Yes, that's a very good point and I imagine it has something to do with support, as well as the 'typical' missing someone. The combined factors..Yes there's MUCH more involved than endorphins, but tends to be the trigger. In my article I focused specifically on certain aspects. Otherwise a long article would turn into a book!

No matter the cause, or reason, it's hard to deal with, especially alone. Some do not believe in "SubDrop" as we've seen, which is frustrating, but alas..nothing one can do.

Sincerely
Silver

_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 1:08:38 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		The forums here and their posts are becoming more and more interesting for me if only by their very existence. For me...it is that existence by virtue of the net and the creation of the blogosphere and our corner of paradise known as the kinkosphere, that we need the words. So we come up with any number of terms...some of which are sub-space, sub-drop and the occasional anonymic...HNG (horny net geek) etc.
 
What Iam getting at is our requirments for words...words on a computer screen. This is all well and good but once we get into such indications as the following:
 
"Manifestations of 'sub-drop' are varying and may include, but are not limited to; anxiety, feelings of guilt, feelings of loss, loneliness, sadness, general depression, crying, lethargy, dizziness, imbalance, loss of physical co-ordination, fear without rationality, insomnia, sleepiness, paranoia, feelings of isolation or wanting to be isolated, questioning their intentions within the scene or with their partner, a need for affirmation, feelings of self-hatred, self-consciousness, loss of appetite, inability to concentrate, headaches, body aches."
 
...we are entering into the realm of real life and what could be and often is as much a part of vanilla life as it is here. In fact, it is because of the needs and wants of the people here and what is attainable here...that we create the possiblitiy and the hope that NONE OF THE ABOVE should occur. To me, if these symptoms are present, there is a serious problem, the cure for which may be entirely elusive or is not to be found in your mate unless they are addressed, soon and carefully. Shouldn't we, after meeting realtime and enjoying our pleasures here...be even healthier and much more satisfied ?
 
If we are discussing some emotional letdown or even more profound occurances or indications, subject to meeting and our kinky scenes...all of these are also found in the strickly vanilla world. Iam not inclined to believe that these problems if any, are found soley within the reservation of the kinkosphere or likewise, in D/s or M/s relationships.
 
In the end, it is possible to come up with an entire lexicon of words (and we have a very good start) to describe how we feel as a result of our realtionships here and any 'letdown' afterward, the bulk of which correctly reserved for some very 'effective' S/M. That does not mean that the words ( and indications) we choose and how they relate to D/s or M/s are only found here. These conditions listed above...are found everywhere.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 1:16:50 PM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		An interesting perspective, and one I can not argue with save for one thing. Just to clarify once again, my writings are all BASED on Real-Time Lifestyle experiences and knowledge, Not online (since I don't do online relationships nor believe in them) Just thought I'd note it since part of my article was quoted. *smiles*

Sincerely.
Silver

_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 1:16:50 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What makes you so sure that "missing someone" or "returning to regular life" and "a physiological and psychological reaction to stimuli" aren't just two different ways of saying the same thing?


I cant speak for anyone else and I know this wasn't directed to me, but I can say for myself, that "sub drop" doesnt feel anything like missing someone or returning to regular life feels.  Ive experienced both types of "downs", if you will, and for me, they dont even come close in description.




_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 1:19:33 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, I did.  The essence of your explanation is this sentence:

quote:

During a scene or sexual arousal there is a measurable release and rise of several hormones (example: adrenalin, endorphins, oxytocin) into your blood stream.


That may explain some of it, but it doesn't explain why, as I've observed, people in long-distance relationships tend to drop harder.  There's more to it than endorphins.


They (ppl in LDRs)  may experience a type of a "drop".... but I doubt it has anything to do with being submissive.  I would bet that vanilla people in LDRs probably feel the same type of "drop" when leaving one another. .

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 2:21:38 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think it's the same.  I mean, until someone is able to isolate the physiological processes behind these various kinds of feelings, we're all just speculating.  Maybe subs who have been in long-distance relationships can comment on the nature of the sub drop they've experienced.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I would bet that vanilla people in LDRs probably feel the same type of "drop" when leaving one another. .

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 3:05:43 PM   
Ladyofthemanor


Posts: 51
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline 		i was told by a sub that she uses chocolate, because of the chemicals in it and how it affects the brain. Even when i scene with my Master, Wwe live together, after an intense scene i will eat 1-2 pieces of chocolate to help with the crashes affects of the endorphines
slavelilly

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 3:12:49 PM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		I have been in a D/s long-distance relationship. A couple actually, and one before my (ex) Master moved in with me. It's definately NOT the same. In fact we made it a point NOT to play after a certain point in our visit, so I wouldn't have to experience SubDrop alone.

Sincerely
Silver

_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote

(in reply to Ladyofthemanor)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 4:55:27 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		marie...My response was to Tiger discounting the existence of subdrop. I wasn't intending to say that the OP was or wasn't experiencing it herself. I don't know her well enough to make that assumption. It " sounds like"  missing him if I had to hazard a guess, but I'm merely basing that on a few lines that she wrote. I can only speak to my own experiences. In saying that, I'd also have to add that I have rarely had these extreme experiences, but I have had them enough that I can believe they exist. Most days, I'm just a happy camper after the fact!

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Sub Drop - 9/17/2006 10:45:04 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		For me subdrop feels like i am unraveling. i am sure having distance between you and your partner would make this more intense, as a good Dom/Master grounds us in ways we can not ground ourselves...  i could not handle long distance for this reason, but i believe being prepared might help... extra communication, having assignments to focus on, knowing for certain when you will be with Him again, doing what you can to stay busy...

My heart goes out to you.
Humbly,
Master's dorei

(in reply to ChainedExistence)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 4:42:23 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

marie...My response was to Tiger discounting the existence of subdrop. I wasn't intending to say that the OP was or wasn't experiencing it herself. I don't know her well enough to make that assumption. It " sounds like"  missing him if I had to hazard a guess, but I'm merely basing that on a few lines that she wrote. I can only speak to my own experiences. In saying that, I'd also have to add that I have rarely had these extreme experiences, but I have had them enough that I can believe they exist. Most days, I'm just a happy camper after the fact!


Gotcha.  I guess I was focusing on what the OP had said.  Hey, I cant speak for her either, but it sounded more like disappoinment to me than anything else.

I do know the 'sub drop' of which you speak as well.  If we have experienced the same thing. 

It was strange with my very first dominant becuase this stuff would happen to me right after a scene and I had no idea why.  The crying, the let down, the feeling disoriented etc.   I still dont know what caused it.  I guess it is the physiological stuff going on after the beating and the emotions being so highly tuned etc.  I dont know. 

Like another poster was saying, we tend to come up with names for particular things, thinking its about bdsm....which is what I feel the OP did...I think she took typical feelings of letdown and called it sub drop because the feeling is experienced when leaving her Dominant.  I took your post as analogizing that with what we have experienced as the type of 'sub drop' that happens right after scening.  (my bad).

I think LaM makes a good point though---if Im not misunderstanding him---the physicological goings-on, during subdrop could be the same or similar as what is happening during typical let down (ie end of vacation, leaving Dom in LDR etc).  Though I dont think it would be as extreme.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to ChainedExistence)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 4:49:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It might be subdrop, and it might just be what everyone feels when their happy fun vacation time ends- or it might be a combination of both.

Best way to deal with subdrop is to prepare for it-know what it's like, know to get ready for it.  Whether you need to sleep it off, just have a few more phone conversations, go do something nice for yourself or something else...no matter what you WILL get back to your normal state eventually.  And take care of yourself physically- eating, sleeping, exercising well and on a regular schedule.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_522013/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#522021
sub drop, definitions, causes, cures, and prevention

http://www.collarchat.com/m_512884/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#513003
Your insight is needed please

http://www.collarchat.com/m_487853/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#488083
sub drop (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_460639/mpage_1/key_subdrop/tm.htm#460834
regaining balance after deep subspace

http://www.collarchat.com/m_202168/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#202459
sub-drop what is it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_345419/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#345462
highs and lows

http://www.collarchat.com/m_398653/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cdrop/tm.htm#399164
subdrop or what?

Is it drop or am I kidding myself?

Depression after a scene

Sub Drop

Nervous sub seeks reassurance

sleeping...


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to pineapplesub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 5:26:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Essentially, I think sub drop is related to grief.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I think LaM makes a good point though---if Im not misunderstanding him---the physicological goings-on, during subdrop could be the same or similar as what is happening during typical let down (ie end of vacation, leaving Dom in LDR etc).  Though I dont think it would be as extreme.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Sub Drop - 9/18/2006 7:32:01 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Surprised LA hasn't posted her long list of sub drop threads yet.  There have been several good discussions.


:) Big life changes, new job that I actually am WORKING in.  I'll try and keep up.  Nice to know it's noticed.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 40
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