What about trans women submissives? (Full Version)

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mellian -> What about trans women submissives? (9/17/2006 6:05:43 PM)

After flying through another thread, thought I would ask something more specific to the lesbian and bisexual Dommes/Mistresses. Would any of you ever possibly consider women who happen to be have the condition of being a transsexual or is transgendered?

How about after seeing someone whom you are attracted enough to go talk to and get to know more, and then before something happens relationship wise, they confidentially declare their transsexual condition or that they are transgendered?

When I say transsexual or transgender, I do not mean crossdressers, transvestites, shemales, sissies and so on, just actual women with a biological and medical condition.

-mellian





MasterFireMaam -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/17/2006 9:35:12 PM)

Yes, I would...and have. I was considering a F2M transgendered person...I like him a lot and was sexually attracted to him. I was sorry when he seemed to drop off the face of the planet.

Master Fire



LadyHugs -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/17/2006 9:48:45 PM)

Dear mellian, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I would consider all individuals, regardless if I wasn't Lesbian or Bi-sexual.  I look for the 'servant' slave, not a sex toy/slut.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Kirei -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/17/2006 10:29:51 PM)

I would and I have met a couple of really nice and great FtM trans....as I'm MtF I see it as apart of my philosophy of life.  As I want people to look on the inside for me, I should do the same also.  Being a dominant also says leading by example.  I am up front about myself, and also would like the same as well.
I know how hard it is to declare such a thing to others, yet one does need to be honest with yourself first....if you wish others to be honest with you.
The best thing posts like this did for me was to help me write down things that I said that were me...and in doing so eventually became the philosophy I live by and the one that anyone in the house will follow as well.

Koneko



MisPandora -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 12:29:06 AM)

Most transfolk don't consider themselves to have a "condition", rather, it's a deliberate decision to transition into the gender that they feel they inherently belong in.

I have had a FtM in service to me, but never the opposite.  I can't say I'd be comfortable with a MtF transperson in service to me for what I seek now as a primary partner because it would be too close to me to crossdressing (even though it's not, it just feels that way because of the genetics to me)



Lorelei115 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 12:37:30 AM)

I dated a MtF trans about 6 years ago, before I really got into the scene. I wish I had known then what I know now so that I could have given him the support he wanted and needed. Its probably the one relationship I truly regret ending.

So, to go the other way, yes, I would probably consider a trans woman as a submissive, although it is not what I am looking for at the moment. I firmly believe it is the spirit inside someone that counts, not the fancy trappings called "bodies".

In fact, you have given me something new to mull over...a trans woman as a sub.. hmm... thank you! [:)]



MrsShadows -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 2:11:14 AM)

Yes, I think that I would.  A very good friend of mine is F2M, and one of the greatest people, and submissives, I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.  As someone else pointed out, bodies or their bits are secondary to a strong connection.

As always, YMMV...

MrsShadows



LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 5:19:44 AM)

In my experience, men will run a mile at the first hint that one has chromosomes other than XX, regardless of demonstrated and professed feelings and desires until that point. It makes me laugh, (and cry), that the woman they found so attractive until the moment before, they now see as a "bloke" and then question themselves as to whether they are gay or something. Well, its up to them I suppose, and they clearly werent worth the bother in the first place.

Like many TS women on here I would guess, I register as female - so at some stage I have to reveal myself as its only right to do so I feel. Why do I register as female? Because I am not, as the OP listed, "a crossdresser, transvestite, shemale, sissy and so on" and so refuse point blank to register as trans, because that category seems overtly to be intended to appeal to certain interests, rather than as a statement for who someone is. I have no objection to the interests in the list, but that is not me, and in addition to that fact, the singular trans category just adds to the confusion of many here and in society about what are two (at least two), very different situations.

I would like to think that (XX) bi and lesbian women have a different attitude than that exhibited by men. Unfortunately in my experience this is rarely the case. I will hope that someone proves the exception to my experience, but generally it seems to be the case that TS women are "traitors to women's lib", "rapists in disguise" or some other such nonsense. And this I have found because they thought I was XX too, and felt they could discuss the issue openly and without the restraint they might show had my origins been revealed beforehand.

I'm so sick of the whole thing, maybe I should just become a nun and shut myself away somewhere; except they likely wouldnt have me either and they'd send me to the monastery next door. At least there I'd be popular.
E 



MsKatHouston -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 5:36:56 AM)

For me, the person and whether or not they are compatible with me in their submisison is what matters most to me.  I generally do not have more than 2 submisives outside my primary relationship and if I have 2 it is usually a male and fem.  How or why that person identifies as m/f does not usually play into it.  So, yes I would consider someone who is trans

quote:

Most transfolk don't consider themselves to have a "condition"

yea, that one kinda put me off a bit too ;)



Phoenixandnika -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 7:01:55 AM)

I will agree that society as a whole makes life difficult for transgender. I have come to the conclusion that its fear of the unknown. I also believe being transgender is no more a condition than having blue eyes is.
 
There are so many stigmas that transgenders face on a daily basis both post op and pre-op. There are just as many stigmas for those who choose to have a relationship with a transgender.
 
So many transgenders loose so much by living life as they are expected to. Soceity has such strong ideas of what makes a man a man a woman a woman and most of those ideas are based upon physical appearance.
 
I couldn't imagine the struggle of feeling trapped. Of hating, truly hating the body your in.
 
I have had a transgender MtF in my collar in the past. I had the priveledge of joining her on her road to self discovery and freedom as she calls it. I meet her pre-op and adored her as a male submissive, I saw her struggles, her families reaction, societies reaction, then I truly meet her post op. Would I do it again? Most definately.




MisPandora -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 7:51:06 AM)

Ellen, it's interesting you say that.  In your mind, and in your heart and soul, you've probably always been a woman.  (I'm really reaching for a big assumption, but it's what I feel from your posts thus far.)  In my own experience dealing with the FtM's in my life, it's always about drama and chaos and too much T and the divine conspiracy to "keep them down in the world".  Out of the dozen or so transmen I know, there's only one that I truly never ever knew was trans because he IS a man (a humble, really cool dominant too) and because he cuts all of the female drama out of him that on T makes them look something like a starve addict in a pharma company warehouse!

Thanks for sharing your post.



LaTigresse -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 8:31:52 AM)

Interesting question.

When I first came to CM I was contacted by a pre-op M2F and me being me I was happy to communicate. I ended the comunication not because of the sexuality issue but something else entirely. My big thing is that I do not care for penises. I don't want to see it, or acknowledge its existance. Hence my attraction to very feminine women. I just love love LOVE women. 

Which leads to another uncomfortable little situation. I have a very wonderful and dear friend that is female but is VERY butch (all at 5'3" and cute as hell with a very feminine voice, poor girl) and identifies as a man, especially in a relationship. Considering that we have been friends for years and talk about everydamnedthing, I know how all of this colours her sex life. After a long term relationship ended she expressed an interest in persuing one with me. I love her so much as a friend but knowing what I know there would have been no way I could go there with her. I just cannot get excited about a strapon penis that looks as life like as today's technology will allow. Then there was the issue of somethings she will only do but cannot have done that are just part of lovemaking for me.

Sooooooooo, given that BDSM is something I want as part of a relationship and given that I want a relationship with a woman annnnnnnnnnnd most genetic males have some interest in some type of sexual relationship, well it's rather complex.

With all of that being said, I have learned to be open minded and never say never. I must say though, I would be LIVID if I had been lied to. I prefer to be told the facts straight up, none of that last minute SURPRISE!!!




LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 9:03:49 AM)

MisP - thanks for that! Yes, hormones are a funny thing for sure and though I'm "natural" (and modest) its truly only once one has experienced both sides of them (oestrogen vs testosterone for example) that one can really see why people are the way they are. I will probably get a lot of flak for saying this, but truly ladies you will never understand what sex is to a man, until you have male testosterone levels swimming in your system, and any boys listening in here will never understand female sex drive until they have had a few months on HRT! For me, I know which I prefer....... Yes, there is a lot of self pity and anger in the TS world and its true, some people get a very (and I mean very) rough ride and are going to end up feeling that way as a result. Its a sad thing that even for TS people, the same rules apply as are applied in "normal" people; the better you look, the more successful you will be. Its that simple. I just thank goodness that I have had it so easy by comparison, though its not fair I know. Still, when it comes to relationships those two letters T and S usually spell the end, however natural one is.

LaT - I think youre right to want honesty from the start, although thats usually what spells the end!
E



LaTigresse -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 12:03:50 PM)

LadyE, having been a close friend to Amy/Mark for so many years I just cannot imagine. I know when my husband was still in the military he had a female soldier that really suffered pschycologically because of her gender identity. I remember his concern for her well being and the many "off the record" counseling sessions he had with her. (you know the military...[:'(]) The few times I met her my heart just broke for her unhappiness. I know that not everyone experiences the same pain, my friend does not, but for those that do......not an easy life path for sure.



Spankinatrix -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 12:12:29 PM)

I certainly would, with absolute joy! 



MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/18/2006 2:54:38 PM)

My partner is M2F TS

I have talked to many TS/TV/TG/CD persons over the years. I get mixed reviews about whether the pre-op or post-op TS should discuss their status prior to exploring a relationship.

Obviously if they are pre-op & identifying as their target gender... there is going to come a time when this subject will have to be discussed. Full disclosure in advance really is the best policy in this case.

In order for the TS who is post-op to remain "stealth" they would have to remove any chance of contact with anyone knowing of their past. This often adds to the stress & anxiety that they have already faced & cannot be a good thing as to maintaining a healthy mindset. I have a woman in our support group who is trying to get back into the trans community after years of living stealth just because she is suffering from extreme anxiety about unknowing persons discovering her history.

Honesty is always the best policy. If being honest discorages an individual from exploring anything further, their choice has to be respected & emotionally it would be less devastating to have this person end further exploration right from the start rather than down the road. Not only is it emotionally safer but it can also be physically safer to be out about this.

http://www.rememberingourdead.org/



LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/19/2006 3:16:06 AM)

MstrssP - your partner is very, very lucky to have someone so wonderful as you. Of that I have no doubt, simply from reading your post (and a few others prior to this thread).

I only hope that one day, I can be that lucky.
E



steffie -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/19/2006 6:22:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

... truly ladies you will never understand what sex is to a man, until you have male testosterone levels swimming in your system, and any boys listening in here will never understand female sex drive until they have had a few months on HRT!


Amen to that!

I am a strong believer in the ying/yang to life.  Yes, we have it difficult at times, there is still a lot of stupidity and prejudice in the world... but we also get a perspective on life that 99% of the population will never understand.  As you say, we know how it FEELS to be either gender.

I use this analogy with my female friends.  I tell them testosterone in a man's body is like nicotine to a smoker.  Men are driven toward their next sex encounter like a smoker is driven toward his next cigarette.  Women are all non-smokers in comparison.  Yes, some women have higher levels of testosterone in their bodies, but it's miniscule compared to a 25 year old man's sex drive. 

I was on hormones for 8 years, and during that time my sex drive went from 100 mph down to about 5 mph.  One of things men didn't understand about the female body is - that you don't seduce a woman into bed by sending her pictures of your penis or talking dirty on the first date or any of the 100's of stupid things men do to try to get a woman into bed.  Men have this moronic notion that women are like men, and willing to have shallow, anonymous, meaningless sex just to "get off." 

I used to try to explain to men that you kick start a woman's libido in an entirely different fashion, by connecting with her on an emotional level... but of course, with most men, you mention the word "emotions" and they run for the hills.  Men just don' t get it, and never will, because they haven't a clue what it feels like to be a woman.

All of which makes a TS the perfect partner, because we get it.  [;)]



MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/20/2006 8:53:46 AM)

quote:

All of which makes a TS the perfect partner, because we get it.


Well that is open to debate. I totally get what you are saying but if you really get to the core of it all... did the M2F TS every really get what it was to be a man? Science has surely shown that there is a difference in the brain of the transsexual. Where it truly mattered, was she ever a man in the first place?

My partner & I discuss things like this all the time. We have used the duality of her gender to our advantage with certain convos that all parents have to have with their teens... especially the girls.

I have also had many conversations with the newly transitioning women that come to our meetings that fear that they still enjoy many of the things they consider the male-type things they used to engage in. I explain to them that I, a genetic woman, enjoy many of these things too but the difference is that I don't classify my likes as a female activity or a male activity.. my brain doesn't analyze my actions & define them by gender. Many of these ladies suddenly get a big smile & say... I get it! That they are not failing to be the best woman they can be just because they still enjoy things they did as a man.




LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/20/2006 9:12:03 AM)

MstrssP - I think youre right in that TS women were never really men, but I also know that what Steffie said is true in relation to the sexual drive thing. Maybe your partner is different, but I know from living in both hormonal empires the differences between them, regardless of who I was.

Male testosterone levels made life appalling for me, and where I'd vary with Steffie is in the description of the drug analogy. I'd say it was more like heroin or something, with sexual release being the hit and all too soon replaced with the overwhelming need for more. Violence I have to say, fulfilling something of the role of methadone. Not that I ever hit anyone or anything like that, but the doors, walls and furniture suffered more than they might have. You will know what an adrenalin rush is like - now imagine being in that state every waking hour. Obviously my reaction to those levels of testosterone wasnt normal, but from what I see of many men, they are in pretty much the same state much of the time, only they dont mind, in fact they quite like it, it seems!

HRT and Androcur saved my life and me from it. Now I get what you ladies talk about too though!
E



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