RE: What about trans women submissives?

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MstrssScarlet -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 10:52:21 AM)
After reading this thread from beginning to end, I have to say that I was shocked by Emperor's statement as well. A shame because all I saw was an interesting and informative discussion on the life of a TS. I do have just one comment though. It was mentioned that women just naturally have a lower sex drive because we have a different approach to a sexual encounter. Perhaps I misunderstood this, but I would have to disagree. I personally have a very high sex drive - at times exceeding my husband's. Mistress Scarlet

LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 11:07:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrssScarlet After reading this thread from beginning to end, I have to say that I was shocked by Emperor's statement as well. A shame because all I saw was an interesting and informative discussion on the life of a TS. I do have just one comment though. It was mentioned that women just naturally have a lower sex drive because we have a different approach to a sexual encounter. Perhaps I misunderstood this, but I would have to disagree. I personally have a very high sex drive - at times exceeding my husband's. Mistress Scarlet Hi Thank you. (I'll say that, as it was me he attacked it seems, whilst others - Yes MisP, I'm talking about you! - got away with it!) If it wouldnt turn into a masturbation fest for some men who might read it (who of course, are all the same, sex crazed inferior beasts, as I made very clear earlier!), it would be interesting to discuss and compare female sex drives and reactions, for me at least. All I can say is that coming off the T and getting into the HRT made a real difference not only in the levels, but also very much in the reactions! Thanks again E

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 12:32:46 PM)
The male sex drive will start decline at about the same age most women feel a boost in theirs. Besides that is where so much confusion came into play with this... don't generalize these statements. Some women have a high sex drive & some men have a low sex drive. The comments made were based on what science has made that "generally" hold to be true. I guess these levels of what are typically sex drives are just a disputable/debatable as polls about the Presidents approval rating... who the hell are they polling??

Emperor1956 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 12:46:40 PM)
I truly resent that my comments are met with "You probably don't know any TG'd people" or "you are wrong because everyone else around here loves and adores me" (which is a very purile way to conduct an argument). In fact I employed an M2F tg for over seven years, I have represented her and several other TG'd people of various persuasions in litigation with employers, former employers and the government. I have donated 100s of hours and 1000s of dollars worth of my professional services to human rights causes directly affecting TG'd people. Don't go playing the "I'm TG'd and so I know" (or the "my partner is TG'd...) card with me. I do appreciate that my comments have led to some change in focus -- some people are admitting that their "universal pronouncements" are in fact derived from their unique experiences and that what they say may only be their experiences. That was my key point. E

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 1:30:14 PM)
bummer award goes to emporor 1956. I was interested in this thread since I am the sister of a transgendered sister. You kind of took away the momentum for those of us interested in learning and hearing from others who have gone thru the process. Maybe if I go back to the beginning I would start off by saying I for one would never consider a transgendered female to be my sub. Im not sure if Id consider a woman to man change though. I can only speak of what I know. And as hard as I try, I find my new sisters desicion to have been a bad one. My sister expresses regrets also, since it wasnt the wonderful life altering change she thought it would be. I guess she thought it would bring her all good forms of attention. The bad part is my sister is a man, in now a womans body. Talks like a man, walks like a man and quite frankly, thinks like a man. Got big boobs went all out on nail polish, talked endlessly about clothes and hair. That to me, is NOT a woman. Or at least not one I can relate to.. And the sad part is she thought shed become female and date men. No man will have her becuase really, shes way to freakish. Better to have stayed a man in our families opinion. I dont know. I admit to struggling with this change and now so does she. She talks about dating women instead. So shes gone from being a hetero guy who dates women to a woman who dates women. And not even any women find her of interest So utterly sad. Heartbreaking really. I dont know. is there any thoughts about what I just wrote? Have u heard this kind of story before? Any replies would be appreciated.

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 2:13:13 PM)
There is no guarantee of a fairy tale ending for every transsexual out there. Many may face the fact that unless they have tens of thousands of dollars for facial reconstruction... & even then sometimes it doesn't work out. Often the TS will find out that they can't even take the hormones because they are susceptible to blood clots or many other things. This is why I have stressed going to a good therapist who has experience with transsexuals. Also to consult with the right medical doctors so that they can give you an objective opinion as to what you can expect as far as results. This is VERY true for the F2M as well because too often they think they will end up with a functional penis & this really isn't the case most times. There are some really great doctors out there doing SRS & there are some real crack pots out there that will sell you a dream & take your money. Yet you have talked about your sadness over what she decided... & your families wish that she had just remained a man & that they may have accepted a gay son. This isn't about you... it is about what is best for her & she may have had to do this regardless as to the outcome. You can't answer this for her... only she can... I wonder if she is actually happy with her choice because I have known several girls who admitted they were ugly women but they would rather be an ugly woman when they looked into a mirror than deal with having a man look back at them. She may be having issues with her choice because she has no support & the feedback she is getting is rejection & remorse from the family. She is vulnerable & 95% of the transwomen I have met are not satisfied with their looks. Often they never feel they are woman enough or look female enough. I've had to really work with my partner on this as well because she is a beautiful woman. I actually got her to start going to water parks & to leave her make bag behind. She was very lucky because she has had any facial surgery. She never had a high testosterone level to begin with. When she started her HRT she took to it like a fish in water. This was the right thing for her. I've seen her boy pics & frankly... it looked like Becca doing a bad drag queen act. As for the Emp guy... he continues to prove that he is not really reading the posts & is only picking them apart... I asked if he ever spoke with a TS. Never once did I say that he didn't nor did I suggest he didn't know anyone who is TS. BUT I did say that he will never know what it is to be TS & the fact that he did any of what he claims doesn't indicate that he has any real understanding or compassion for TS's. From what I gather he is in law & in law when the case came across his desk you work it. I've blocked myself from seeing any further posts because anything I say would be twisted to match his wrong impression. Now that he has hinted at his profession I see that he is most likely very good a manipulating others words to suit his needs & his drive for victory & getting in the last word is what motivates him.Y'all can let me know if I'm dead on with this... [;)] oh & emp, before you say I'm bashing all lawyers & such, I'm not, no lumping everyone into that general catagory... its just you, your style & how you represent yourself in this public forum. Besides, I have nothing further to say to you. I know when its time to stop beating a dead horse. So fire away... they're all blanks you're firing... but maybe that is the real problem here [sm=whoa.gif][sm=rolleyes.gif]

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 3:08:25 PM)
My sister went to the top dr in canada for the whole transition surgery. My sister went thru I believe two years of therapy. You say the family was not supportive. Um well theres more to the story than a sentitive person seeks transgendering. Im not sure this is the place to lay it all out. I've heard again and again my sisters women trapped in mans body story. I think I even remember hearing that genitic tests picked up another chromisone. But its very hard for a family to be supportive of an abusive person. Maybe if the history before the transgendering was different then maybe. Its just very interesting to me that its NOT just one person whos life is changed by transgendering. Its the whole family. And knowing what my family knows, its hard to be supportive. We feel my sister is mentally unsound. And shes got the paperwork to prove it! In consequence, Ive told my own sons that I dont care if they're trapped in a womans body. I just dont care. Please, try to live with who you are. Because in the end, the change may be harder than what you are now. And I have to stick with that, because of what I have experienced. And they are aware of their aunt. So its no mystery where Im coming from. Theres not enough people who have done it that I know, who could actually change my mind through an end result that really looks great, and brings a life they wanted. To me, we're just not there yet as a medical breakthrough and as a society. Hats off to those of you willing to break new ground. But not for me. Think I'll skip the party. So to all those of you who have those thoughts and who have gone thru the change, just understand that perhaps Im willing to be politcally incorrect here. And thats a hard place to be. I feel like I should say it, although I might get booed. So I will most defintely respect your opinion if you can respect mine. We're in many ways on the same page. Where else could I even utter these words?

LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 3:09:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 And the sad part is she thought shed become female and date men. No man will have her becuase really, shes way to freakish. Better to have stayed a man in our families opinion. I dont know. I admit to struggling with this change and now so does she. She talks about dating women instead. So shes gone from being a hetero guy who dates women to a woman who dates women. And not even any women find her of interest So utterly sad. Heartbreaking really. I dont know. is there any thoughts about what I just wrote? Have u heard this kind of story before? Any replies would be appreciated. Yes - this is a similar story to mine, although to be excessively modest as usual, I do look like a woman, move, act, speak like a woman etc. But still even then, it gets me nowhere. I can attract guys, and one in particular truly loves me and demonstrates it often (proper hetero alpha male type too) - but in the end it seems theyre all too wary of what others will think of them, being with a "bloke", regardless of anything else. Its natural to have high hopes for transition, but its also important to be realistic about it. No one undertakes such a life shattering process unless they really need to, and the chance to relieve all their frustrations often leads to a rosy view of the future which is then not matched by reality. Depression is rife amongst TS people and the leading cause of death in that population is suicide. E

LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 3:18:45 PM)
Sophia - I do hope you dont get booed; you expressed a view based on personal experience, and thats not something that anyone can argue about or shoot you down for. But there are many success stories out there, believe me. If I could think what the website was, I'd post you a link; it features a small fraction of success stories from all over the world. The problem is, that most of us who are successful, prefer to live in stealth and because of our success, no one realises we exist. That woman you work with could well have been born male - that sort of thing. And overall, its not the gender identity disorder that causes TS people so many problems - its the reactions of society to them if they dont conform to what a woman/man should look and be like. Obviously I dont know your sister's prior history, but consider this; there are a lot of TS people out there who do stupid things and grossly over reactive things to prove there's "nothing wrong" with them; trying to prove themselves a man for instance, even though inside they are not. E edited to add link (I found it!) http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 3:25:43 PM)
my sister was not realistic about the outcome at all. Im just not sure why. It could be she surrounded herself with all Pro transgendered people for two years. In a therapy environment you can become clouded to the real world. But eventually therapy stops and reality starts. Once you get out of that hosptial setting things just arent the same. She did tell me about the high suicide rate. Shes was an is still an alcoholic. The good news is, she got a number one radio show in a very large metro area! The bed news is since no one can see her, she uses a mans name! lolololol Sometimes,..you gotta laugh. lol

LadyEllen -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 3:36:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 my sister was not realistic about the outcome at all. Im just not sure why. It could be she surrounded herself with all Pro transgendered people for two years. In a therapy environment you can become clouded to the real world. But eventually therapy stops and reality starts. Once you get out of that hosptial setting things just arent the same. She did tell me about the high suicide rate. Shes was an is still an alcoholic. The good news is, she got a number one radio show in a very large metro area! The bed news is since no one can see her, she uses a mans name! lolololol Sometimes,..you gotta laugh. lol Hi Sophia Please dont take this the wrong way OK? Did your sister not do a "real life test" before surgery? Did your sister not undertake training to assume a female voice and speech pattern? E

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 5:39:40 PM)
I assume you are talking about Menard & Brassard in Montreal. I'll let you in on one of the other leading doctors in this in Colorado Marcie Bowers & she herself is TS... this is a great example of adjusted, successful & very sane. (7 this is the reason of my post... to offer you further examples that transition is often positive) I'm sorry that your family has had a hard time & this is not unique to you & your family. I also agree that the transition does have an effect on more than just one person & this too is why therapy is often suggested for the family as well, not just the TS. Becca's family is living in denial & refuse to see her & as of the last couple of years... now refuse to speak to her. Even when they did the played the pronoun game & always called her by her boy name. She is also a wonderful success story. She is one of three people in the state doing the job that she does for a major telecommunications company. She has been out & very public about being TS. For Christ's sake we even had Glenn Beck yacking about us on his show a couple of months ago... his narrow view was that he couldn't understand why a man (her) would go through all of this yet end up with a woman (me). No two transsexual's path will be the same... each one is unique. We have a close friend who went to Brassard 2 yrs ago this last May. She was what I call a fast track... about 2 1/2yrs from the first pill to SRS. She is a successful business owner. She is a electrical contractor & had to undergo some stressful moments since her clients were all use to dealing with a man in a man's field. She overcame this & is going strong. She did however get divorced & for a time her "unmentionables" pulled away... but today she has one with her full time (his choice) & the other comes over as often as possible & has requested to be with her full time. She recently met a wonderful woman & has a strong relationship forming. On the flip... Becca has been transitioning for about 8 yrs, living full time for the last 7 & transitioned on the job she has now & has been promoted several times. Time has been the factor of her not getting her SRS yet. She will need about 2 weeks before she can leave full time medical supervision to return home & then several more before she should return to full duty at work. Like I said... only two others people in the state do what she does & even now none of them can get a free weekend without having to take calls & set crews of people in motion. (we even have to zip lock the cell phone & carry it at Disney water parks) I truly hope that you & your family & your sister can find support & hopefully be able to be a family... & yes, I completely respect your views & the fact that you posted , even if a bad experience shows me that you do love your sister a great deal & that maybe just maybe something said here will help you understand her a little better.

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 5:45:03 PM)
The speech training is not really required but most therapists follow the Harry Benjamin Standards & the TS must live full time for a period of at least one year as their target gender. All of this is supposed to be monitored & verified by a therapist.

MisPandora -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/22/2006 10:44:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora backing slowly away from the thread And here I was afraid what I said was offensive! Dang. Yes - how come you got away with it!? LOL! E It wasn't that it was offensive, per se, but I figured that someone would take offense to me having a personal opinion. I seem to piss in people's cheerios every day here for that very reason.

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 4:15:57 AM)
Thank you for holding on to this thread. It got a little dicey there in the middle what with some buttinskie-isms. And yeah all the stuff Ive read does fit in with what my family went thru. My sister had to move far away from the area she was born in in order to claim a life. Which is a good thing. And yes, I dont live in her body. Its her own pathway. And no one in our family ever stopped talking to her. It was she who stopped talking to us. Because we were the cause of all her sorrow in her way of thinking. Which is never the whole truth. We all have a hand in our own lives and we all control our own outlooks. Funny you should say the one transgendered person here worked in construction. My sister too. Like I said, this was a pretty rugged guy to begin with. Who if she went for voice training lasted about 2 months tops with it. And did walk around dressed like a women for a long time before during and after the transition. I gotta tell you. Ive learned a lot from this experience. Both good and bad. And while I havent turned against the world in many ways, in other ways Ive come to some permanent conclusions about America. I still think a man is not safe walking the streets in a dress or feminine attire if the man looks like a man. Not unless youre looking for some medical intervention when the last words you hear are, "die faggot die!" You can ask my former brother about that one, and the fun surgeries that ensued to reconstruct his face and teeth. And dont forget fellas, if you get hauled in to the hospital dressed like a girl with a penis, the attendants might be a little standoffish. Sure, its well and good for the few who become successs stories, but I wouldnt recommend to any man to transition from a ok looking guy, to an unnattractive middle aged women. I recognize the difference in how the world looks at me at age 47 to when I was 27. I think this is a tuff issue really. I look at the posts here about crossdressing and how much fun it is, yet read the replies from so many women towards the men who say, cool go for it dude, but its not for me. I want a real man sub. I just think its an uphill battle that in our lifetimes cant be won. At this point I carry my own personal baggage around with me on the whole issue. I have a first hand behind the scenes look at the struggle and the results. In a weird way that makes me lucky. I carry a magor attache case with me filled with knowledge that most people dont have. And while I sound possibly bitter about it,...I'm not. Thats just how I talk. Ive got my own opinion on it. Ive got plenty of empathy for the whole subject and those caught up in it. Its like our own little family drama where the story never ceases to be of interest. Im glad this thread didnt get yanked or hijacked by others. Very glad indeed.

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 9:57:27 AM)
Yet with all your empathy can I point out one small thing you said that rings loudly: quote: did walk around dressed like a women for a long time before during and after the transition. Like a woman rather than as a woman. This tiny shift in your perception can make all the difference in the world to the one whom you are perceiving. Maybe you don't see this as a big thing but consider this... how would you, as a woman, like to have someone refer to you this way? Kind of diminishes your existence doesn't it? What is happening is that in her world she is a woman, in her mind & heart & soul she is a woman. This isn't a costume she is putting on & so long as as she is perceived to be "like" a woman rather than perceived "as" a woman she is not going to be comfortable being around you, her family. The costume she was putting on was living life as your brother, as their son & so on. For her going out every day being a man was no different than if we who are secure with our gender, going out dressed in a chicken suit everyday. This is what is happening in our home & yes, it does affect many people... our "unmentionables" are missing out on getting to know their Grand Parents, their Uncle, Their Great Grand Mother & so many others because they refuse to accept the reality that Becca exists & the boy they knew, the man they knew really is no more. Often this transition is very much like morning the death of a loved one & often this is exactly what has to happen in order to welcome the TS back in. Yet if the morning takes hold & not dealt with... the TS doesn't have a chance of coming home. Grief is a very strong emotion.

sissifytoserve -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 10:17:31 AM)
Thanks for sharing MstrssPassion. I would say that in my case its fleeeting and temporary...as I do not have a problem whatsoever with being a male. However....it seems to me that I cannot also be whole without having a strong feminine side. This is expressed through dressing as a female. I very much enjoy both sides of my psyche. Most definately differen't than Becca. If I were a TS..I certainly would want to be known as a woman...even if my physical body because of DNA and chromosonal factors dictated that I had to have a male body. I have tremendous respect for others who want to go all the way. After all....WE ARE...so much more than just our bodies. Way more.

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 10:44:24 AM)
page 11 on the crossdressing thread has a note to MstrssPassion sissytoserve ladyellen and cloudboy. If you read this here, please go over there and find. Thanks page 11.

MstrssPassion -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 10:53:27 AM)
Your welcome... Anytime!

sophia37 -> RE: What about trans women submissives? (9/23/2006 11:01:23 AM)
and the reason I see my sister as "like" a women instead of "as" a women is simply based on history. I could see my sister "as' a women only if I never knew her for more years as my brother than as my sister. She went thru her change when I was an adult and not living with her. The past is more ingrained in me that the present. So yes, I guess thats my problem. I have no idea how to overcome the infrequent encounters and change my gut reaction. And thats how deep it runs. Too much past not enough present. And that will never change. I can forgive my sister for the infractions she perpetrated against me in her confused state. But I can never forget. Nor should I. She and I have discussed it. And while she has told me her violence against me was due to her confusion, she has never told me sorry in any way shape or form. I dont believe she is sorry. I believe she is still a danger. So I too am damaged goods thanks to bad genetics. Interesting how when the tsunami hits, it damages such a wide area.

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