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When politics clash - 1/13/2005 2:28:58 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		What do you do when your politics clash with those of your sub? or potential sub/slave?

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SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 3:55:12 PM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
I don't see why politics should be an issue in BDSM any more than in daily life. If you're unable to deal with those of a differing opinion make sure your sub shares your views. Agreeing to disagree on certain things is the more usual way of handling it. A sub doesn't give up the rights to their own viewpoints or opinions. If you seek someone who is willing to give up their views for you, they are out there.. but this is more what I consider a slave type mentality.

I notice by your profile that you're hitting the frustration point. I want to encourage you not to give up. You may need to change where you're looking for your sub though. I spent three years online searching and not finding someone who was a good fit for me. (I "interviewed" over 60 people in person and about 500 via instant msging and emails.) For the most part, I was finding men with a submissive fantasy (bedroom submissives) rather than a submissive man. It is enough to make you think that your idea of what a sub is doesn't exist. I joined a protocol oriented Domme organization and found the "sub of my dreams" at my first play party. I went from being fed up, frustrated and vaguely bitter at being life support for a fantasy to happy, content and realizing Dominance in all aspects of our relationship. It is out there. Just change where you seek.

Some links for you to find your local real time community..
http://www.psicorps.org/triangle/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WICKED/

I'm not sure if the Triangle and Triad areas of NC are the same.. here are some Triad links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosis_announcement/
http://www.togetherinleather.org/gnosis.html
http://www.talon-nc.org/

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 5:01:35 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

What do you do when your politics clash with those of your sub? or potential sub/slave?


Dear MHOO314,

I echo what Beach Mistress had to say. It's hard to find a sub that's right for you. I've been interviewing myself, and I'm coming across a lot of unsuitable submissives, HNG's, and men who I qualify as "Stepford Subs."

Anyway, I don't know why your politics is a problem. I'm a political professional, and I understand that there are lots of people with differant political ideas running around. I would think that each party could respect each other's viewpoints, and move on to more fun things ;)

Best of luck to you,

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 5:05:00 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't have a sub. Although speaking for myself. If my Dom was a different party than myself. I'd probably convert. I don't have much respect for politicians either way. I would have respect for my Dom, so why not trust his judgement?


(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 5:24:55 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		I vote for the political party i chose, but often me and my Dom is in agreement aboute it.

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 8:12:29 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		It's important to me that anyone i'm in a relationship respect my politics, as the personal is political, I find it is hard to have a sucessful relationship with someone who doesn't share my philosophies, or at least respect then and not expect to change them.

Ms. Eden

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"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to nella)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 8:51:42 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Political ideaology is like anything else that goes into making a relationship. There should be 'some' agreement - even if the two individuals do not share an ideology. that agreement could simply be an agreement to disagree. It depends on how strongly you feel about it. If you feel very strongly about your beliefs, it would probably be a good idea to find someone who had similar interests and beliefs.

(in reply to MaitresseEden)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 10:42:42 PM   
servantnj


Posts: 39
Joined: 3/3/2004
Status: offline 		what?? there are kinky conservatives? almost anyone in the scene i have ever met, had similar political view, and pervy people are traditionally liberal, so now i am confused with all the discussion here.

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Why pamper life's complexity
When the leather runs smooth
On the passenger seat ?
-The Smiths

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/13/2005 10:56:53 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
Oh Servantnj,
There are plenty of conservative kinky people; I've spoken to a few myself, very strange I thought (just as you're thinking).
I don't know what to tell you, because I agree with BeachMystress, in that sometimes you do have to agree to disagree, but as MaitressEden says, polytics are personal, and I do not get along with people who's ideology is extremely different from mine.
I was driven near insanity by some of my discussions with my republican co-workers before last presidential ellection, so oftentimes, I decided to stay quiet and take the "see no evil/hear no evil" approach. Generally speaking, this is not a huge issue for me, because am conservative on some issues and not on others (a moderate); but in a close/intimate relationship, I could definitely see enormous problems in feeling so strongly opposed to my partner's views, that the relationship would crumble under that type of discord. M

(in reply to servantnj)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 12:59:24 AM   
txparanoid


Posts: 31
Joined: 12/31/2004
Status: offline 		I couldn't date anyone conservative. It's a deal killer for me. But the important point is that I *know* that, I'm polite, and I'm not going to waste people's time with thinking it could work out.


(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 9:14:59 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What do you do when your politics clash with those of your sub? or potential sub/slave?


That depends. If they are liberal then you contemplatively consider their perspective; if they are moderate then you realize they are conflicted and show patience; if they are conservative you nail them to a cross in the front yard so the other conservatives can set them ablaze on their next 'boys night out.'



< Message edited by MizSuz -- 1/14/2005 9:15:20 AM >

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to MHOO314)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 1:07:45 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

if they are conservative you nail them to a cross in the front yard so the other conservatives can set them ablaze on their next 'boys night out.'




Need any Matches?.... LoL

Ms.Eden


< Message edited by MaitresseEden -- 1/14/2005 1:08:09 PM >

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 7:05:02 PM   
CTclay


Posts: 123
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

if they are conservative you nail them to a cross in the front yard so the other conservatives can set them ablaze on their next 'boys night out.'


Promises, promises, MizSuz!

Seriously, people on the left have LONG been the most intensely intolerant subset of the population, unless you want to start searching out radical cliques or religious cults.

Some of you can't take a submissive who has different politics? Really?! How UNdominant of you all! Tolerance implies emotional security, not to mention strength of character. Courage is another attribute that tends to burnish the aura of a proper dominant. Why not practice it?

If your submissive can't beat you in an argument about politics, then you should have fun arguing with the submissive. If your submissive CAN beat you in an argument about politics (assuming you would find it pleasing to ARGUE about politics, personally I prefer discussion, and very careful discussion when I've been owned by a dominant), then you should respect that aspect of your submissive.

If you're really emotionally secure, then you might even consider learning from your submissive. Horror of horrors, your submissive might actually have something to teach you.

My politics have always been different from the dommes I've served. I'm scrupulous about expressing my political opinions only when asked, only with politeness, only with utter diplomacy. What good submissive wouldn't? (And don't bother pointing out that I'm not that way in this post -- this forum is obviously a different context.)

Now why the HELL couldn't any of you insist on that from a submissive, and what the HELL would be the problem in any relationship if you had a submissive who acted that way?

Do you have to control all aspects of the submissive's mind as well as behavior? That's not being dominant -- it's being abusive by grossly overstepping the bounds of what one human being should expect of another human being.

Intolerance of the other person's politics is actually just as disgusting in vanilla relationships as in BDSM. It's widespread, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't shock us.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. Intolerance is, frankly, disgusting in anyone, but particularly disgusting in a dominant, not to mention disgusting in someone involved in a lifestyle whose existence as a community is dependent on the tolerance of the outside world.

Be strong.

You've been BAD dominants! Badbadbadbad! Tsk tsk tsk tsk tsk!


< Message edited by CTclay -- 1/14/2005 7:08:28 PM >

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 7:35:31 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline 		It isn't about "intolerance" whatsoever I respect anyone who can defend/argue/support this opinions and beliefs. What it IS about is Self awareness, and personal happiness. Someone who is self aware and knows themselves and thier ideologies well enough to know what they can and can't live with or tolerate is wise enough not to settle for someone who doesn't compliment them. Be it politics, religion, or anything else.

Ms. Eden

< Message edited by MaitresseEden -- 1/14/2005 7:36:07 PM >

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to CTclay)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 7:39:17 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaitresseEden

It isn't about "intolerance" whatsoever I respect anyone who can defend/argue/support this opinions and beliefs. What it IS about is Self awareness, and personal happiness. Someone who is self aware and knows themselves and thier ideologies well enough to know what they can and can't live with or tolerate is wise enough not to settle for someone who doesn't compliment them. Be it politics, religion, or anything else.

Ms. Eden


Amen to that!

Lily


_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to MaitresseEden)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 8:10:22 PM   
CTclay


Posts: 123
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It isn't about "intolerance" whatsoever I respect anyone who can defend/argue/support this opinions and beliefs. What it IS about is Self awareness, and personal happiness. Someone who is self aware and knows themselves and thier ideologies well enough to know what they can and can't live with or tolerate is wise enough not to settle for someone who doesn't compliment them. Be it politics, religion, or anything else.


This reasoning seems circular to me regarding awareness. It's irrelevant to the point at hand whether or not you're aware of your intolerance. And not being able to have a relationship with someone with different politics is simply intolerant.

Politics, even among the most political people, is such a small slice of life that it doesn't involve a noticeable amount of difficult subjects that you need to edge yourself around in order to have a peaceful relationship. I know this from personal experience.

I can understand *practical* inconveniences with differences of religion (for instance, one person needing to attend a religious service), but many, many relationships overcome most of those inconveniences. But you are not inconvenienced by what goes on between your submissive's ears unless that is manifested in the submissive's behavior. I had a hard limit in not participating in Wiccan ceremonies that my first domme desired. We survived that difference, but I would have understood if she'd ended the relationship for that reason.

I can't imagine a political difference creating a serious practical difference. And if it isn't a practical difference that you have with a sub of a different political stripe, then you're being intolerant.

It would be better for anyone, it seems to me, for them to rise above intolerance rather than accept it.

(in reply to MaitresseEden)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 8:58:55 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		HAHAHAHAHAHA

Clay, you are hilarious (if only I could be half as funny).

Although I would argue with you that it's the people on the left (in general) who are less tolerant. I think that's a geographical thing. My experiences in the deep south for many years proved the reverse to me. Perhaps it was just the preponderance of one sort in certain areas. They were abortion clinic bombers and doctor killers where I came from and they were VERY conservative politically. Some of them even wore long white robes with white hoods. Perhaps you've experienced more vandalism for some green cause or the like.

I've got a sneaky suspicion that you might lean a bit to the right. <smile> And that's ok with me, too - until you burn a cross in someone's yard (intimidation) or try to keep a person from being able to make their own decisions about their own body (control). If you're not one of those kinds of conservatives then I have no judgement, but if you are one of those kinds then I have judgement and it's judgement I'm ok with.

As for your shame, you can keep that. I won't be needing it.

I did, however, enjoy your post. It made me laugh. Thank you!

< Message edited by MizSuz -- 1/15/2005 8:01:19 AM >

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to CTclay)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 9:02:37 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CTclay

I can't imagine a political difference creating a serious practical difference. And if it isn't a practical difference that you have with a sub of a different political stripe, then you're being intolerant.

It would be better for anyone, it seems to me, for them to rise above intolerance rather than accept it.


I don't see it as an issue of tolerance, personally. I simply don't choose to spend my time/energy on significant relationships with people who have significant philosophical differences. I don't find enough common ground with people so diametrically opposed to what I believe in to warrant investing in such a relationship.

I have friends who have significantly different political views from my own. A couple of them say that I'm slightly left of Lenin (though I personally consider myself moderate). My boss is a die-hard conservative of the mind that we should "blow them all up and let god sort it out later". We can enjoy spending time together, or work effectively together, but I can't fathom having a *significant* relationship with them because they see the world so differently than I do. It's a significant incompatibility. I'm tolerant of them; I don't want them gone from the planet or even out of my life. I simply don't want them to be an intimate part of my day to day existance.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to CTclay)
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RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 9:03:33 PM   
Mytimetoserve


Posts: 26
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I wish I knew how to put a quote in here, but I think that Ctclay missed one other option in his summary of "If you can't beat a submissive in an arguement". Reference post 1/14/02, 7:05:02 PM.

You can just chain his ass up to the ceiling and tell him how smart he is while you're whipping him senseless. Food for thought?

I am a dreamer.

(in reply to CTclay)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: When politics clash - 1/14/2005 10:42:00 PM   
CTclay


Posts: 123
Joined: 11/6/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, MizSuz, you are such a sly, teasing, imposing, riveting, awesome domina ... but you can't make me say what my politics are. Irrelevant to the discussion. Nope. Not gonna tell. Can't make me.

Of course, you're welcome to try...

In fact, might make an interesting interrogation session...

-- But I'm just not telling. Nope. I'm just so strong willed that no matter WHAT you did, you just couldn't get it outta me. You could torture me and torture me and it just wouldn't happen. Naah. Couldn't do it. No, don't bother trying to throw me into that briar patch.

As for what group wins the intolerance sweepstakes, I defer to your greater geographic experience. I'm not familiar with the South.

Now I was scratching my head when I read this: "And that's ok with me, too - until you ... try to keep a person from being able to make their own decisions about their own bodies (control)."

Ummm. This is coming from a domina?

Sherri:

You write: "I simply don't choose to spend my time/energy on significant relationships with people who have significant philosophical differences. I don't find enough common ground with people so diametrically opposed to what I believe in to warrant investing in such a relationship."

But in *any* relationship you'll find you're diametrically opposed to the other person in *something*. As I say, I just can't see politics as being that important in someone's overall life that it affects a relationship. Unless you spend significant portions of your time traveling to political demonstrations somewhere, I suppose.

You write: "My boss is a die-hard conservative of the mind that we should 'blow them all up and let god sort it out later.'" That sounds to me like it might be more a difference in morality than politics. Someone in my office said a very similar thing. He happens to be pretty liberal. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone with significantly different morals, either.

But political differences are not moral differences. Haven't you known people whose politics are the opposite of yours but who are really admirable anyway? Likeable, too? Even almost kinda lovable?

You write: "We can enjoy spending time together, or work effectively together, but I can't fathom having a *significant* relationship with them because they see the world so differently than I do. It's a significant incompatibility. I'm tolerant of them; I don't want them gone from the planet or even out of my life. I simply don't want them to be an intimate part of my day to day existance."

Well, all this seems very vague to me, so I can't really answer it. We all tend to be with people we work with more than with members of our own households, more than significant others. Are these people at work *likeable* people, despite political differences?

I haven't seen any reason not to call this "intolerance," which to me is very sad because I like and admire most of the people I'm criticising here (and I just don't know the others).

I suppose yours is the most acceptable kind of intolerance, because we all have our preferences in the types of people we decide to have relationships with. I've noticed, though, that I've been attracted to all sorts of people that I never would have thought I could possibly be attracted to. And I find it's particularly easy to be attracted to someone no matter what her politics.

C'mon guys, take a walk on the wild side! ... You know you'll like it...


< Message edited by CTclay -- 1/14/2005 10:53:08 PM >

(in reply to MizSuz)
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