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RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 1:37:16 AM

joyinslavery

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

Here's an opinion on this most tiresome of threads...

If you 'demand' tribute, then you're a whore.

I think that's simple enough.

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 41

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 2:55:57 AM

SirKenin

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

I wonder about the people who pay tribute. Never mind the Mistresses that think they are all that and a bag of chips and that some poor sucker should have to pay them to get off (in the vanilla world that is a prostitute). I wonder about the dire straights the person finds themselves in that actually falls for that nonsense. Are they that desperate? Or what are they hiding that they have to pay someone for something that the greatest majority of people give away for free.

She better give a mean blowjob if she is worth more than a dozen roses. That is all I have to say.

Even a Master should not expect anything in return. You can not demand money, sex or other gifts. You do not have that right. Or are you a gigolo?

The whole concept of BDSM is based upon the notion of giving of one's own free will. DEMANDING something defeats the purpose and perverts the scene.

That is how I look at it anyways. So I will just leave it at that.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to joyinslavery)

Post #: 42

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 4:09:05 AM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

The whole concept of BDSM is based upon the notion of giving of one's own free will.

Can you tell me what page in the manual that is .... I can't find it.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 43

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 4:30:23 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Some guys really have what I term a "tribute fetish" -- (a profile on here is SubItal....see for yourself that he has a thing for buying things from people's wishlists.) It's a very niche fetish, and it's something that they do from the safety of their home. The only thing they have to do is worry about their CC number being phished off of their own computer. They get their jollies with the woman in whatever way, and I guess he's happy and she's happy and that's that. More and more, women online feel this sense of entitlement and honestly think that this weeds out the wheat from the chaff. I totally disagree, because an abusive narcissistic asshole who has money to toss around will buy things because he can -- that makes him no more worthy of serving me than the guy who barely makes minimum wage but would give me the shirt off of his back.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 44

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 4:33:41 AM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

Here's an opinion on this most tiresome of threads...

If you 'demand' tribute, then you're a whore.

I think that's simple enough.

I can't say that this harsh judgement is correct.

A woman who is a legitimate pro dom who is providing a domination service and requires a fee (aka tribute) and does not accomodate sexual services (as legally defined in your jurisdiction, mine it's penetration of an orifice or sexual gratification to release) is not a "whore" by dictionary definition.

I'd go out on a limb to say that women who take what's not rightfully theirs (sitting in their housecoat on the computer taking Amazon gift certificates because she talked on YIM with a dude about his weenie) is awfully grabastic...but even she's not a whore.

In either case, it's not like anyone's being strongarmed or even bribed for the money, eh? The male is consensually engaging in the exchange. She's not thieving his dollars, his plastic or paper. This is not the 87 year old blind granny in FL having some creepy guys come into her house and take $10K for a roofing job they didn't do, or charging old Uncle Al down the street $5K for the imaginary alarm system the gypsies installed on his windows with thumbtacks and fishing line.

It might not be your thing. You might find it disgusting. But that doesn't make it any more wrong than coprophiliacs or roman shower fetishists or whatever else might be to the outer limits. *shrugs* I can't say it really affects me, as guys who are into tributing aren't usually seeking a relationship. It keeps them otherwise occupied and out of my mailbox!

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 9/23/2006 4:40:17 AM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to joyinslavery)

Post #: 45

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 5:00:17 AM

degradess

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline

Interesting issue. I have recently been setting up to go pro domme with tributes and gifts, that sort of thing. I see nothing wrong with someone paying for what they want. The way I figure it, if they aren't paying me they are paying someone else and I need them money. Besides, it's fun raping wallets.

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 46

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 9:46:33 AM

ShyEyesM

Posts: 2
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

It's surprising to find such intolerant attitudes on CollarMe. Have any of you self-righteous types ever paid to play? It is a hell of a lot of fun. Some of us need discretion, others want to be able to get their needs taken care of without having to worry about the other person. Still others find someone who is extraordinarily attractive and find out she's a pro after they're already hooked on her. Who are you to call her a whore, a prostitute, or anything else? If pay-to-play is not for you, don't do it. But don't go around the boards all high-and-mighty, condemning those of us who want to have some simple fun. Christ, this isn't the John Birch Society.

(in reply to degradess)

Post #: 47

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 9:50:39 AM

joyinslavery

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

Here's an opinion on this most tiresome of threads...

If you 'demand' tribute, then you're a whore.

I think that's simple enough.

I can't say that this harsh judgement is correct.

A woman who is a legitimate pro dom who is providing a domination service and requires a fee (aka tribute) and does not accomodate sexual services (as legally defined in your jurisdiction, mine it's penetration of an orifice or sexual gratification to release) is not a "whore" by dictionary definition.

I'd go out on a limb to say that women who take what's not rightfully theirs (sitting in their housecoat on the computer taking Amazon gift certificates because she talked on YIM with a dude about his weenie) is awfully grabastic...but even she's not a whore.

In either case, it's not like anyone's being strongarmed or even bribed for the money, eh? The male is consensually engaging in the exchange. She's not thieving his dollars, his plastic or paper. This is not the 87 year old blind granny in FL having some creepy guys come into her house and take $10K for a roofing job they didn't do, or charging old Uncle Al down the street $5K for the imaginary alarm system the gypsies installed on his windows with thumbtacks and fishing line.

It might not be your thing. You might find it disgusting. But that doesn't make it any more wrong than coprophiliacs or roman shower fetishists or whatever else might be to the outer limits. *shrugs* I can't say it really affects me, as guys who are into tributing aren't usually seeking a relationship. It keeps them otherwise occupied and out of my mailbox!

I agree. It's not just women though (although most 'tribute dominants' seem to be women due to the desperate nature of men) and it's less a judgement and more of a statement.

Btw, I'm not talking about legitimate Pro Dommes. I think real Pro Dommes are great and serve a very useful purpose. Yes you pay a fee but you are paying for their expertise (hopefully) and the overhead so to speak. I view that as a straightforward business transaction and quite legitimate. The trick of course is seperating the real-deals from the overnight Pros such as the post below You that talks about how much fun it is "...raping wallets." Scary.

< Message edited by joyinslavery -- 9/23/2006 9:51:30 AM >

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 48

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 9:58:22 AM

joyinslavery

Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShyEyesM

It's surprising to find such intolerant attitudes on CollarMe. Have any of you self-righteous types ever paid to play? It is a hell of a lot of fun. Some of us need discretion, others want to be able to get their needs taken care of without having to worry about the other person. Still others find someone who is extraordinarily attractive and find out she's a pro after they're already hooked on her. Who are you to call her a whore, a prostitute, or anything else? If pay-to-play is not for you, don't do it. But don't go around the boards all high-and-mighty, condemning those of us who want to have some simple fun. Christ, this isn't the John Birch Society.

LOVE the John Birch Society reference! :)

See my post above...I don't view a Pro Domme and a tribute 'goddess' as equals. The Pro Domme is (hopefully) skilled and provides a legitimate service. This is not a Pro Domme bash nor is it a bash on women. I've actually met one guy in my life that only dated women (they tended to be older than him) who would buy him things, take him on trips, etc. He was a whore.

Again, not so much a judgement as a statement.

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to ShyEyesM)

Post #: 49

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 10:04:34 AM

Lorelei115

Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline

Frankly, if someone is silly enough to give a Dominant (male or female) "tribute" of ANY kind, monetary or otherwise before being in a steady relationship with them, they get what they deserve. I mean, does anyone out there NOT know that you shouldn't trust everyone you meet online?

_____________________________

A sucessful life is not measured by what we do
But by the realization
Of who we are.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)

Post #: 50

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 10:56:21 AM

jesskitty

Posts: 185
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: jesskitty
okay. i understand but i definatly do agree with that. people are not gods and never are going to be, otherwise we would be caled gods instead of humans, which from my perosnal perspective just proves how the whole thought doesn't equal two and two..but as usual to each their own and i respect those that do so. just not my personal thing.

It's an analogy Jess, not meant to be taken literally.

Some subs worship their doms, treat them as royalty (often thought to be ordained directly by the gods), and generally consider them in their lives almost if not exactly as they would consider their gods.

Whether your dom demands tribute of blood, money, sex, animals, first born child, time, or clothes- it can be a sacred and submissive act.

you never know la, there are all types of people in the world. :)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 51

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 11:11:33 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

yes, there are people who do not know not to trust a screen name or persona online. If there wasn't scams and phishing wouldn't happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorelei115

I mean, does anyone out there NOT know that you shouldn't trust everyone you meet online?

(in reply to Lorelei115)

Post #: 52

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 12:06:11 PM

CherieP

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

Throwing in my $2 (inflation, don'cha know) on this endlessly discussed subject...

I'm one of those "tribute" dommes that some subguys seem to get so upset about. I have a bunch of reasons for demanding tribute, including:

1) It RAPIDLY weeds out the guys who are only interested in wanking off while chatting and/or exchanging naughty emails with me. My actual job is running my own homemade-(vanilla)porn paysite and in my time in the adult industry (1.5 years now, and counting) I have come across hundreds of these guys. If I took the time to correspond or chat with every guy who messaged me looking for a free wank I would have no time to do anything else...and I would be letting myself be used for their pleasure, which is the complete opposite of what I want as a dominant female. I'll message or email back and forth with a prospective sub for nothing, so long as I don't think they're using me, but I will not chat with anybody without an upfront payment because, in my experience, the guys who plead for chats want to wank.

2) 80% of the men who contact me (especially the ones who are full of wholly unrealistic bs along the lines of "I want to serve you 24/7...I'll do anything you say...yaddayaddayadda) are men who I can't see ever developing a real, long-term relationship of any kind with. Take the most recent one to get huffy with me about the tribute issue (this was on another fetish-dating site, not CM)...he was twice my age, married with no intention of leaving his wife or ever revealing to her that he was playing outside his marriage, had absolutely no experience in BDSM or skills which might be actually useful to me, and really only wanted to be "ordered" to eat my pussy. It's like, hello...I have a husband who'll do that (and do it very well) every night if I want, not to mention guys from my vanilla work offering me $200 an hour for the privilige, why should I let you do it for nothing? He told me it was "an insult to BDSM" to accept tribute, called me names, and accused me of lying (my profile made it quite clear what my requirements are, and I quoted it back to him in case he'd neglected to read it the first time around, as so many of them do - he was the one who repeatedly said "I'll do anything you ask" then got upset when I asked for cash). It's been a week since this exchange, meantime I've got dozens more replies from subguys (including a few promising ones)...good luck to him finding a woman so desperate for cunnilingus that she will put up with his crap.

3) I need money. My paysite probably won't turn a profit for another year or so, meanwhile my family is living on one inadequate income and the cost of living has gone waaay up in Florida over the last year. I would expect anybody who truly cared about me (be they a part-time lover or something more) to do what they could to ease my burdens, whether that be chipping in for my skyrocketing insurance bill or pulling weeds in my negelected garden. Just as I would do my best to ease the burdens of anybody *I* really cared about. Am I not supposed to expect this from a love relationship simply because that relationship involves spanking & bondage? If I wasn't actually in need of money I might be more interested in different sorts of tribute, but I would certainly still insist on some kind of concrete evidence that I was valuable to a sub. Pretty words and the willingness to let me do things that fulfill your fantasies don't prove anything to me.

4) I get a real erotic thrill out of it. I guess this makes me the female counterpart to the subguys who are actually into this as a fetish. Money is a potent symbol of value, most guys hold tighter to their wallets than anything else they have, and I get a huge sense of POWER & of being powerfully desired when a guy forks over his hard-earned $$ to be with me.

There's more, but those are the biggies.

I insist on tribute, but if I think a guy has the potential to develop into a real relationship - friends, lovers, or possibily even, at some point in the future, an addition to my polyamorous family - I am willing to accept tribute in the form of USEFUL service. (Ditto if the guy truly wants to serve me but has no money.) Which means gardening, housework, carpentry, etc and so on, NOT performing cunnilingus or bending over for my strap-on. And yes, I insist on tribute being payed before I play, otherwise how likely do you think it is that I would do my part and deliver the whipping (or whatever) and then be left hanging? (Be honest with yourselves here guys!)

Now with all that said, I will point out that my profile makes it completely clear what I'm after, and I have absolutely no need to go "fishing" by contacting subguys myself. There are certainly women on here who lie about what they're after; I think it's not so hard to spot them if you pay a little bit of attention to their WORDS and not just their enticing pictures. FWIW, there's just as many (if not more) of those women on vanilla dating sites too...you may not have realized it but a big percentage (I'd guess 30-40%, could be higher) of the female profiles on those sites are either "escorts" or women who're looking to sell webcam chats, phone sex, or pornsite memberships. Is this a crappy thing to do? Yes, but there's still fewer of them than men who're looking for a free cyber-wank, so what does that tell you?

It tells me that it's a good idea to actually pay attention to what your prospective Dom/sub says, not only in that first message but also in their profile, in forums, and in any other area you can to learn about the person you're considering meeting. Which is just good, common-sense advice for cyber-dating anyway, isn't it?

-Cherie

*edited to say this is not specifically in reply to Lorelei115, but to the original poster and the community in general

< Message edited by CherieP -- 9/23/2006 12:19:48 PM >

(in reply to Lorelei115)

Post #: 53

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 12:19:43 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

I still have absolutely no sympathy for cheapskate wankers who want to use people to get thier jollies for free. It's a bit like walking up to a movie theater, and telling the cashier that they are 'fake' for not letting you see the movie for nothing.

Get a life, or bugger off.

(in reply to CherieP)

Post #: 54

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 12:29:03 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

tribute

WriteDictionaryPronObjectTag("152", "21", "http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/audio/pron/a56/A5612300.mp3", "tribute");

trib·ute [ tríbbyoot ] (plural trib·utes)

noun

Definition:

1. expression of gratitude or praise: something said or given to show gratitude, praise, or admiration

2. evidence of good: something that is indicative of a value, benefit, or good quality in somebody or something

His success is a tribute to his determination.

3. extorted money: payment exacted or extorted for protection

4. history payment by one ruler to another: a payment made by one ruler or state to another as a sign of submission

5. history payment to feudal lord: in medieval society, a payment made by a vassal to a lord, or an obligation for such payment

[14th century. Directly or via French < Latin tributum < tribuere "give out among the tribes" < tribus (see tribe)]

edited to remove a whole bunch of unnecessary spacing.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/23/2006 12:30:52 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 55

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 12:45:48 PM

Noah

Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

I still have absolutely no sympathy for cheapskate wankers who want to use people to get thier jollies for free. It's a bit like walking up to a movie theater, and telling the cashier that they are 'fake' for not letting you see the movie for nothing.

Get a life, or bugger off.

Wow.

On a fine Summer day I often want to get my jollies by taking a friend out on my boat, or accompanying him or her on his or her boat. Sometimes I get my jollies by meeting friends out for dinner or a drink. I guess you have no sympathy for me using my friends in such manners without insisting to pay them.

As to your example, we aren't offended when a professional actor expects pay, Frank, when he calls himself a professional actor. If he decides to call himself instead: "a Pure Artist, something far removed from the lowly professional actor" yet still demands a paycheck for his work then we might well point out the discordance, and laugh in his face. We might call him what he is, a professional actor.

The standard term for someone who does what is under discussion here is prostitute. There is nothing gray in the picture. It is all cut and dried.

And don't the dominants under discussion get their jollies from what transpires? So if the bottom is a cheapskate for wanting to get his jollies for free, how can the top be anything less than a swindler for not only wanting jollies for free but wanting beyond that to get paid for taking them?

I don't consider paid tops swindlers--though some individuals might be. They are prostitutes plain and simple.

I don't give a crap if consenting adults exchange money for such services. I'm here to say that your reasoning is shit, Frank.

Choose what line of work you prefer, but call it what it is. Or or become a garbage man and call yourself a Sanitation Engineer if you bear such a burden of shame over your work than you have to lie to yourself about it.

I'm not saying either line of work is to be looked down upon (professional garbage handling or professional penis handling.) But when someone finds his or her calling and is ashamed to admit its name I tend to suspect that they themselves in some important sense find what it is that they do distasteful.

"Tribute" What a fucking joke.

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 56

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 12:59:18 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

So where does the line between professional and amatuer lie Noah?

I have no issues with prostitution, I think it should be legal. What I DO think, is that the supply side should get a realistic expectation of what the MARKET is about. And the fact is-they are a glut-and a pretty poorly educated consumer.

And most of these idiots don't even make very good FRIENDS-much less customers. How many males subs have YOU had do deal with?

(in reply to Noah)

Post #: 57

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 1:10:52 PM

Misstoyou

Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

And most of these idiots don't even make very good FRIENDS-much less customers. How many males subs have YOU had do deal with?

Nah, that generalization might apply to the "submissives" who unsolicited offer me "tribute", as they obviously are consumers who see me as a commodity, but overall here on CM (the only site I've been on) submissive males have made very good virtual and real-life friends. (Not to mention the two that I own who are so much more.

)

_____________________________

~ Miss Marie

a.k.a. "mean Lady"

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 58

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 1:21:13 PM

Frank01

Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank01

And most of these idiots don't even make very good FRIENDS-much less customers. How many males subs have YOU had do deal with?

Nah, that generalization might apply to the "submissives" who unsolicited offer me "tribute", as they obviously are consumers who see me as a commodity, but overall here on CM (the only site I've been on) submissive males have made very good virtual and real-life friends. (Not to mention the two that I own who are so much more. )

Exactly. They aren't submissive in any stretch of the imagination. They are selfish bottoms seeking service Tops.

And that is the root of this whole thing. The dishonesty and self serving attitude. It shouldn't be surprising that like seeks like.

(in reply to Misstoyou)

Post #: 59

RE: Question on tribute - 9/23/2006 6:00:47 PM

CherieP

Posts: 25
Joined: 9/15/2006
Status: offline

Frank, I think you hit the nose on the head...and in a much less verbose fashion than my attempt.

The guys who are complaining about "tribute", and loudly proclaiming that the women who insist on it are "nothing but whores" (like that's a bad thing) are (usually) guys who are looking to have THEIR desires met, with as little effort/expense as possible on their part, by the domme.

***please note that I don't claim this to be true 100% of the time!***

They are, therefore, being JUST as dishonest, deceitful, and selfish as the dommes who don't disclose the tribute requirement until after the "mark" is hooked.

Both sets of people make it a lot harder for we who are trying to be honest about what we want to connect with like-minded others, and the resulting bickering makes it hard for all of us to play nice with one another.

(in reply to Frank01)

Post #: 60

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