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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/23/2006 11:03:51 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Not to mention, bottoms need to provide aftercare also.


I think this is often overlooked.  A part of his aftercare is the "debriefing" after the play; it reassures him that we enjoyed ourselves. 



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 12:13:20 AM   
Noah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Not to mention, bottoms need to provide aftercare also.


I think this is often overlooked.  A part of his aftercare is the "debriefing" after the play; it reassures him that we enjoyed ourselves. 


Sorry kyra. I'm not buying this idea that Knight's briefs never come off till afterward.


The loveliest comment I've heard on the subject of aftercare was: "Aftercare? Is that the blowjob I give you after you spend the evening beating the crap out of me?"

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 12:49:20 AM   
MysticFireTopaz


Posts: 50939
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So unless you've told the other person what to watch for and what you need, and that they have agreed to it, one can't fault the top.

Not to mention, bottoms need to provide aftercare also.


This got Me to thinking.  Maybe I shouldn't fault the bottom, either, if he is one of those "finish playing, flee the scene as soon as possible types" if I had not discussed beforehand in negotiations that I don't care for this type of behavior.
 
I'm not particularly high maintenance, but do need a small amount of aftercare or I feel kind of empty, used, disconnected, and unappreciated.  Kind of like a "life support system for a whip" as they say.  The way I have been handling this is to track down the bottom, sit down with him, and ask him directly for whatever I need to feel closure, maybe a foot or shoulder rub, maybe just to talk and connect.  Ironically, most of them are more than happy to oblige Me if I just make clear what I expect.  Doing this in pre-scene negotiations would probably make things go better.
 
The first time this happened, after a pretty intense scene, the bottom took off and a fellow Domme seemed to sense I needed something and started rubbing My back and shoulders.  She chided the fleeing bottom for taking off like that and he seemed genuinely surprised and said he would have been more than happy to do that if asked.  I asked the opinion of another sub who was sitting nearby and while he thought the guy was kind of rude and selfish, he also thought it should have been made clear to the guy that something more was expected of him.  So after that, I started asking.
 
I guess this comes naturally to some and not to others, so discussing this in pre-scene negotiations is a good idea.

Lady Topaz

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 3:24:49 AM   
Areflectionofyou


Posts: 258
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline 		Aftercare should be offered in any play environment

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 5:46:14 AM   
kyraofMists


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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I think this is often overlooked.  A part of his aftercare is the "debriefing" after the play; it reassures him that we enjoyed ourselves. 


Sorry kyra. I'm not buying this idea that Knight's briefs never come off till afterward.


LOL

Hmmm.... well.. you know, sometimes he will....  nah, I'm not telling  *w*



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 6:26:55 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm not much of a casual player so most of what I'm saying is based on my experiences with woman I've been in a relationship with.

Aftercare should always be given. After something mild it can be a pat on the head and saying "good girl" but if it was an intense scene we both need some time to come down and a nice cuddle is a good way to do that. BTW aftercare is for Doms too! A sub can tell me she loves being flogged and the tears are not a problem and throughoput the scene she may not use her safe word but I still appreciate her letting me know the pain didn't go too far etc afterwards especially when I'm still getting to know her and her reactions to things.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 6:56:06 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane
For those in LTRs, does the aftercare you receive/give depend on what you did in the scene? Do you have a specific aftercare ritual always done or does it vary?
It does depend on the scene we engage in. If I go deep into subspace he is going to make sure I have a blanket on, water, and anything I want within reason. He will get me sugar at times too. He rubs out bruises whether I am in need of lots of aftercare or not to make sure they do not get really bad also.

I find that I get subdrop if I do not get affection or cuddle time. I am a little more needy feeling for a couple of days after a more heavy scene. I find subdrop can be mostly avoided by being affectionate and rubbing out bruises. Affection is seriously important and I do not know why, but it is.

I think at this point of my life the idea of casual play has no interest for me whatsoever because I do not think that I could receive aftercare in  a way that would keep me from having a severe drop. I love flying in subspace, but not at the expense of crashing without no way back up. I need a romantic connection to the person that topped me, namely the person I refer to as my dominant, and without that I do not know if I could achieve subspace.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 7:04:56 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

"Aftercare? Is that the blowjob I give you after you spend the evening beating the crap out of me?"


Too funny!  




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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 7:13:46 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear SweetSarijane, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eye, a dominant like me is always caring.  So, when there has been a scene/play scene and or somebody who has given their body to the experience for the sake of demonstrations, presentations and or education, I after care these slaves also. 

Some require more after care and some do not.  There is a need to express before hand what the slave needs to come out of subspace/flying and let me know how to best help them get back into the well grounded space and awareness.  A quick check in after the scene is over as to what the slave needs at that moment is often the most true measurement of what the slave needs in after-care.
 
I do agree with, have mentioned it before in a different thread, that all too often submissive and bottoms forget to offer and or give after care to the TOP/Dominant.  It requires a lot of energy to keep the floggers, the other tools, the mind and physically standing for hours as to permit a slave to float away into the land of flying/subspace and to return them safely back.  I find slaves have a keen eye, as to see when there is a need for a Master/Mistress that needs after care.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 9:17:33 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		A sub friend told me that she used to cry out of shameful remorse on the way home from scenes she used to have and that sticks in my mind as a way I don’t want a sub to feel. I want to make sure the sub feels good about herself, happy that she played and is physically alert enough to function in whatever way she has to.

This may require hugs, kisses, talking and time. It comes down to me letting her know that I respect her, and that I love what we do as much as she does. (I fully realize some subs want a different, environment where they are simply used hard and provided with no aftercare.)

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 9:39:40 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

A sub friend told me that she used to cry out of shameful remorse on the way home from scenes she used to have and that sticks in my mind as a way I don’t want a sub to feel. I want to make sure the sub feels good about herself, happy that she played and is physically alert enough to function in whatever way she has to.



I agree.  Be the person Top or bottom... guilt and remorse after the play is not a positive emotion to feel.  I would suggest that there is something very wrong if a person is feeling such emotions after play on a continual basis.  I can appreciate that such an emotion may occur on the rare occassions and should be deallt with quickly.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/24/2006 7:05:19 PM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		In the ongoing discussion that sparked me starting this thread a new twist was added. A friend was at an out of town event and was asked by a female sub to watch over her while she scened. She agreed to and discovered that another Dom and another sub had also been asked to do the same. After the scene they were asked to assist with aftercare. The sub had them running back and forth getting her water, blanket, food, comforting her as she cried and told how much she was hurting from things done to her in the scene and on and on. This went on at least 45 minutes and my friend says she feels very used and manipulated by this situation and it seemed so overdone the actions she was displaying and the things she was saying to draw out the attention. Have any of you run into subs who milk aftercare for all they can get out of it? Who crave the attention and spotlight focus on them? Manipulators in that way?

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 10:04:36 AM   
DelightfulSpirit


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Joined: 11/23/2005
Status: offline 		Lately I've included a request for contact a day afterwards and several days after, for a chance to talk things over after feelings percolated down -- and then didn't actually have any issues to discuss, but still appreciated that they called!  This was much better than a time or two in the past, when I didn't negotiate for such a call and did need it.

_____________________________

Surrendering to the Mother Goddess
is the most sacred form of D/s.
~ Mystress Angelique Serpent

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 10:15:34 AM   
DelightfulSpirit


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Joined: 11/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

(ExSteelAgain) 
It comes down to me letting her know that I respect her, and that I love what we do as much as she does.


As a sub/bottom, this is exactly what I need; thank you for articulating this so well!

Nowadays I am wise enough to choose partners on this basis in the first place, but yes, part of what the cuddles afterwards  are about is an affirmation of this positive attitude -- as well as generally connection and grounding.

< Message edited by DelightfulSpirit -- 9/26/2006 10:16:56 AM >

_____________________________

Surrendering to the Mother Goddess
is the most sacred form of D/s.
~ Mystress Angelique Serpent

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 10:25:41 AM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline 		I generally get contacted within the first couple of days after a scene by the one who topped me. They ask how I'm doing and thank me for playing with them and in general check up on me and I really like that. It makes quite a difference and helps a lot in toning down any sub drop.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to DelightfulSpirit)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 2:28:37 PM   
swtnsparkling


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quote:

Have any of you run into subs who milk aftercare for all they can get out of it? Who crave the attention and spotlight focus on them? Manipulators in that way?


I sure have




_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 7:24:12 PM   
JessicaLashes


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline 		I don't post much. how ever after reading the header I just had to look.

When my ex-girlfriend  introduced me to  this life style she made sure that after care was always given to every slave.  To her and me it's considered a show of respect and the quality of the domme.

Those people who play with subbies and kick them out of their dungeons after wards clearly show just what motivates them.  I've played with guys who have told me that they stopped see pro mistress so and so because they felt the absence of after care showed that all they wanted was their money and cared about nothing about them or anything beyond that.

Let's be real if you take care of your play toys you can have them to play with for a long time.




quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane

A discussion in my local group got me thinking on aftercare. I see between those in an LTR the aftercare at parties and I read here about aftercare practices between those in LTRs.

What about aftercare from casual play? For those who do casual play, do you get aftercare? Do you get it from the Top, or is it another who gives it? Do you discuss it in negotiations before a scene? Does your need for certain types of aftercare vary with the intensity or type of scene you bottom in?

For the Tops/Doms/Masters, do you give aftercare to those you play casually with? Do you discuss aftercare in your negotiations prior to a scene?

For those in LTRs, does the aftercare you receive/give depend on what you did in the scene? Do you have a specific aftercare ritual always done or does it vary?

I know for me what I need in the way of aftercare is dependent on the type and length and intensity of the scene and whether I hit subspace or not and how deep I go into subspace. I get aftercare from the Tops and from others there at the parties. Our group is small and kind of like a family.

Thoughts? Feedback? Opinions?


< Message edited by JessicaLashes -- 9/26/2006 7:27:13 PM >

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
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RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/26/2006 10:14:16 PM   
Rafters


Posts: 266
Joined: 3/9/2006
Status: offline 		Another factor to aftercare is making sure the sub is back in reality.

It's one thing to drive off and leave the subbie in happy puddle, it's quite another to watch her drive off wearing a stupid grin and closing her eyes with each flashback.
Ones a feeling of pride, the others a suspense driven cringe.

So I tend to finish with a half hour to spare, so there's about 25 mins of cottonwool comedown (chatting, cuddling, checking limbs are still attached) then about 5 minutes warning and reaching for the ice cubes if her vocab's still limited to only using vowels.


(in reply to JessicaLashes)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/27/2006 6:50:37 AM   
SweetSarijane


Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafters

Another factor to aftercare is making sure the sub is back in reality.

It's one thing to drive off and leave the subbie in happy puddle, it's quite another to watch her drive off wearing a stupid grin and closing her eyes with each flashback.
Ones a feeling of pride, the others a suspense driven cringe.




Yes that is very important. Not too long ago, I bottomed for a 2 hour very intense s/m session which left marks that stayed for weeks. I was flying and floating, and disconnected, speech impaired, drifting thoughts, definitely not with it afterwards. It was a good hour before I was to the point I could safely drive home that night. I had a lot of aftercare then and really needed it.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to Rafters)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Aftercare in LTR and Casual Play - 9/27/2006 7:00:13 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetSarijane

In the ongoing discussion that sparked me starting this thread a new twist was added. A friend was at an out of town event and was asked by a female sub to watch over her while she scened. She agreed to and discovered that another Dom and another sub had also been asked to do the same. After the scene they were asked to assist with aftercare. The sub had them running back and forth getting her water, blanket, food, comforting her as she cried and told how much she was hurting from things done to her in the scene and on and on. This went on at least 45 minutes and my friend says she feels very used and manipulated by this situation and it seemed so overdone the actions she was displaying and the things she was saying to draw out the attention. Have any of you run into subs who milk aftercare for all they can get out of it? Who crave the attention and spotlight focus on them? Manipulators in that way?


She could have been manipulating them. However she could have had a bad scene. I recently heard of someone who invited friends to join her at a play party and the dominant she had frequently played with before became jealous of her friends and therefore violated many of her limits leaving her hurting. In a case like this, the sub could well need a great deal more aftercare than is usual.

In the circumstance you cite, not enough information is given as to what she normally requires in aftercare, why the dom didn't give it to her (something I find very odd), what the agreements between them were and whether or not he abided by them. But if sub A requires an hour of aftercare usually and sub B only ten minutes, then B would assume that A was a poser. And if they had talked beforehand then B would know whether or not she was up for the hour A needs.

(in reply to SweetSarijane)
Profile   Post #: 40
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