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RE: Why??? - 9/25/2006 2:05:26 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERRocker

Always do what is in the best interests of BOTH parties = to give a safe word is NOT a negative  thing; it is safe, sane common sense and open communication. To discuss afterwards why and how can things be done better increases the trust and intimacy


Sir this isnt about a safe word me and Master dont even use one anymore as I have no limits with him and trust him this is about those who cant use a safe word when given one even when they are needed and those that say they are ok to please Master even when they arent.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to MASTERRocker)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Why??? - 9/25/2006 2:18:40 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		OK I feel the need to clear some things up here mosty cuz of what Mons said... Please dont blaim my Master he did everything he could he asked me over and over if I was ok and then finally desided even though I said I was ok I wasnt actually ok and stoped the scene... The thing that is odd to me is he wasnt doing anything to me and maybe that is what the problem was. i was simply tied up with a blind fold and ear plugs nothing at all really knew about it I love bondage Master knows Im good with it but the difference was I had never befor been bound and left... all the times befor I was bound and then Master did things to me this time he just let me be there not doiung anything to me at all.. I even knew befor hand this was what was gunna happen. So I dont know what heppend in my head that stated the panic atac and me and Master discussed many different reasons why it could have happend.. so please my Master is not to blaim here he is only human and lets face it I wasnt telling him someting was wrong even when he was asking... And that is what this thread is about, us slaves that cant use safewords cant speak or communicate distress during a scene... I trust Master with my life (and hopefully all you other owned slaves feel the same) And yes Masters and Mistresses should ultametly be able to read their sub/slaves but they are human and dont we as slaves owe it to them to be able to communicat honistley with them even in a scene?? I dont know I guess its just been bugging me a great deal.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 3:36:29 AM   
D1961wildchild


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		Hi MagiksSlave,

Yes it does not have to be heavy play or even pain with me either, it can be something small and insignificant and it will hit a trigger, often one I did not even relise I had, and in a slpit second I am gone. Sensation all but gone, unable to communicate, unable to make my mind work ... shut down on so many levels ... it scares me and I can understand Sir's concerns about me playing with others and I agree with Him ... but I also trust Him, I know in my heart that He will do all He can to ensure my safety and that should there be failures we will talk them through and find strategies to overcome the problem ... it is all one great learning curb.

And on a positive note, these triggers (for want of a better word) have often led me to a deeper understanding of myself and some wonderful healing that enhance my life and who I am. As painful as it can be to bring things out into the light, it is so much healthier than letting them hide in the dark like unpredictable time bombs ready to shread your life and your sainity. It is also a nice experience to have someone in my life I do not have hide things from ... someone who helps me to understand that sometimes shame and guilt can not only be self destructive in some cases but also misplaced.

So easy to get lost and confused looking at things from a dark prospective within yourself .. yet so much trust and fear in sharring them with annother ... espeaciallly things from childhood ... to remove yourself from the disabling emotions of the child in pain that was and see them rationally with an adults view and understanding is not always possible without help.

I find that this is part of the inability to use a safe word sometimes, the inability to say hey I am in trouble STOP...
an emotional overload ... there are so many ways to explain it and it can be so different from one example to annother ... in someways i feel sorry for Doms, it must be so hard, such a fine line to thread sometimes. I strongly believe as a sub I have a responsibility to consider the possible effects of a scene and if I am not prepared to give the Dom all pertanent information for my safety then I have no right to enter that scene with him ... It is like sending a knight into battle with broken weapon or a gimpy horse and then blamming Him for loosing the battle ... responsibility may be different for all parties involved but it is shared just the same.

Just my thoughts

warm smiles to all

_____________________________

formally redheadedfire4u ...
Driver1961's redheadedfire now lol ...
warm smiles to all

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 4:17:01 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Yeah, I also shut down and once the scene goes past a certain point, am incapable of stopping it.  I don't think its about wanting to please the person I'm playing with in a conscious, obvious way but more of a sense of  temporarily losing the ability to feel what kind of state I'm in and gage my reactions so I become very compliant. (I don't know if this makes sense.)


This makes complete sense to me, as it's exactly how I feel. As soon as we begin 'playing' (on any level whatever) my ability (or desire?) to decide whether I do or don't like something, or want or don't want something, goes away completely. So that him asking, 'how is this?' is pointless... I don't know, or don't care to know, or feel I don't need to know (I can't say which it is, exactly).

That kind of state can go on for a long time, depending on what is happening... until something hurts so that a little cry will come out (or an enormous scream), or an involuntary movement (bearing in mind I'm usually trying not to make a sound or move... ) and then he will have to make a decision himself about whether or not he's pushing me too far. I'm sure he knows far more about this than I do, because I'm not making decisions at that point, and I've never asked him about how things feel from his end.

That is the problem, for me, with a 'safeword'... I wouldn't use it even if I had one, because I'm not in a mindset for decision-making then. And I know that I feel the same as many on this thread... in a way it's not wanting to disappoint... but it's also a personal challenge... I don't want to give up or be weak (my competitive nature..?). And I also don't want to be in control.

To me (and I know some people will disagree), I feel using a safeword puts me in control of things. When I'm playing, I want him to be the one making the decisions, not me. How can I enjoy myself if I'm supposed to keep half an eye on whether he's going 'too far'?

I should add that we don't do anything that is particularly life-threatening or dangerous, so I'm sure that this makes a difference.

--
eta: that the mindset (for me) when playing is all about 'bearing it'... and trying hard to bear it, and letting go more and more... going deeper... overriding the discomfort... deeper deeper... losing the desire to resist... etc....

... to keep half a mind on whether or not I am going too far is so "anti-" this that I don't see how it can happen at the same time.

Not sure if that's comprehensible, or so obvious that I didn't need to say it.

< Message edited by ElektraUkM -- 10/8/2006 4:31:53 AM >

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 4:24:51 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

And that is what this thread is about, us slaves that cant use safewords cant speak or communicate distress during a scene... I trust Master with my life (and hopefully all you other owned slaves feel the same) And yes Masters and Mistresses should ultametly be able to read their sub/slaves but they are human and dont we as slaves owe it to them to be able to communicat honistley with them even in a scene??


No, I don't think we owe it to them to be able to communicate 'honestly' (or as I would say, fully) at that time. As you have said, some of us evidently go into a mindset in which verbal communication (or even any deliberate communication, such as dropping something we're holding..?) becomes 'impossible', and decision-making is very limited.

On the other hand, is it 'fair' to put everything in Master's lap and say, well, you should have noticed something is wrong even though I made no conscious effort to let you know.

I think you've raised a very important question here.

I think the answer probably lies in ongoing communication between the dom and sub, and is something probably only possible in an LTR..?

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 7:06:13 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a fairly clear communicator when I'm getting distressed - I never manage to safeword (because I usually forget it in a crisis) but he knows if I'm at my limit and not coping.

The problem isn't when I'm pushed to the limit, it's when I'm having a wonderful time.  When I hit subspace I could go on forever, and sometimes, with certain activities, I really want to.  He always stops before real damage is done, no matter how much I'd love to keep going.

I trust him completely, he looks after my interests when I'm past the point of caring.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 8:43:57 AM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline 		<Fast Reply>
Here is a thought.. and keep in mind please that I too suffer from this affliction as well..

Perhaps the "Masters" should start punishing us for NOT indicating a problem if there is a legitimate concern.  Maybe if we start associating NOT communicating these things with punishment, we will start doing what we should to protect both ourselves and our Masters.

Just a thought.

PS>. for us who go "non verbal" lets start keeping something in our hands to drop for a signal or some other form of indication. While I may not be able to speak during these times, I certainly think I could open my hand to let go of something if needed be.

< Message edited by RedSavageSlave -- 10/8/2006 8:46:20 AM >

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 9:56:20 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I guess it isn't totally *safe*. The fact is that my Master DOES have that responsibility. It's a huge responsibility. I appreciate that but it is the case. I AM in his hands.

agirl 

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 10:05:03 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		There is no substitute for experience, observational skills, discretion and discernment on the part of the dominant - a submissives first and most important choice is in the choice of that dominant.

It sounds like you chose well.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 10:10:47 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		My Dom knows that when i stop answering questions during a scene i am too far gone and must stop.  It might be even a good subspace that i don't want to come back from but if i fail to respond and He asks for a response He will lightly slap me until i respond.  All that time He is also releasing me from the bondage so that after care can begin immediately.  There again He is extremely safety conscious which allows me to go deeper and deeper and know i am safe.  Then on the other hand it is my responsibility to keep me safe also and if i fail to use the safe words or talk to Him then it is my fault and i need to figure out what went wrong at my end. 

We have also had to learn that i sometimes talk to myself during a scene and if i am saying no, no, no, no, i am talking to me not Him.  Trust me that one was something that had to be understood up front by Him so that He did not think i was telling Him no which is not acceptable and that i was not rejecting whatever pleasure/pain was going on.  It is kind of like a mantra that perhaps i should learn to control/stop however it is a comforting thing for me to say and do and actually allows me to play deeper.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 10:34:14 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Knowing someone well helps........

*Are you ok?....Yes*
*Is your leg numb? Yes*

If you know someone well you know what to ask and how.

He has to be responsible for someone that isn't fully *aware*..He is responsible for putting me there.

agirl


< Message edited by agirl -- 10/8/2006 10:36:49 AM >

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 11:04:31 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedSavageSlave

Perhaps the "Masters" should start punishing us for NOT indicating a problem if there is a legitimate concern.  Maybe if we start associating NOT communicating these things with punishment, we will start doing what we should to protect both ourselves and our Masters.


Oh, i know definately He's been angry with a bottom who failed to tell Him she has just broken up with her Dominant,  in His mind, any emotional new thing is need to know info.  she got to some place in the scene that triggered her grief and anger and He was blindsided.   Stopped the scene and found out and nearly went flippo. 

i'll never forget the fire in His eyes when He said something to me akin to "if you EVER..."   hoo-buddy.  i know placing the Him in a position of not being able to make sound decisions because i withheld information would not be tolerated.  my opportunities to scene would be on the line, truly.  

Now, to address HOW we can do this when we go someplace we want to go and cannot discern our own state well enough to communicate it?   i really want to go to that non-verbal space and travel around in there, but the Him brings me out of it.  Reading on thread "Stingy or Thuddy?"  i realised a lot of that is because we're just more entertaining bottoms if we're still animate, but He says it's also because important to keep communicating.  DAMN

i think for me it's because i really want to not have to worry for my own safety, i want to leave that in the hands of the top, which is realise is unfair.  :: stomps wee foot :::  more Damn.

(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 11:16:35 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Everyone makes great points and this is something me and Master have been working on. Unfortunetly I ahvent really been able to get into subspace since my panic attack a few weeks ago (though that hasnt lessend our enjoyment of our scenes they are still great) so this really hasnt been a problem and i have been striveing to communicate better, though I dont know how that will translate when I am finally able to get back into subspace...

I guess there is no REAL cure for this and maybe just needs to be exepted as something that comes with the teratory we are in, I just always want to be good for my Master and somehow haveing this problem makes me feel like not a good slave :( an I dont like that feeling!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 12:03:44 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

So yeah I know while in reality we are able to STOP the play some of us really arent so able to stop things!!!! Its dangerouse so why do we do it???


We assess the risks with rewards and we make a judgment if the reward is worth the risk.. we all have different answers for that question

quote:

Why cant we look out for our own safety?? I mean ok I know those of us who are lucky enough to be owned aspecailly by Masters that read us well we take for grantid that they will know and stop things befor they go to far... but really they are just human and make mistakes so really we do need to have our own safety in our hands as well so why dont we...


I have a safeword, we use direct communication, and I was once on the brink of being totally unable to communicate... at one time I worried about these things, but I really do not anymore. I have to have trust that he will watch out for me and take care of me if things go wrong. I do trust that implicitly. If something goes wrong he is going to have my ass in a hospital so fast and that is all I can ask of him, that he takes care of me first and always when we play.

It is like getting on a plane, or in a car, or water skiiing/snow skiing.. shit happen.. people hit trees when they ski or break bones... accidents happen... and yet many people take risks.

That is my answer anyways.. hopefully I understood the question

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 3:49:33 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I trust my Master with my life that isnt an issue as much as I feel like a bad slave by putting all that on him in a scene and not takeing some of the waight off his shoulders by looking out for myself a little

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 4:44:25 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		To me anyway, if a sub or slave can intentionally "release" themselves from "bondage" it's not bondage.
I mean why bother in the first place?

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 5:04:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I trust my Master with my life that isnt an issue as much as I feel like a bad slave by putting all that on him in a scene and not takeing some of the waight off his shoulders by looking out for myself a little

Magik's slave


I did not mean to infer that you did not trust your master, I was trying to relate my view according to my situation. I apologize if you took my words in a way that I did not intend.

Basically I know how my Daddy feels about this issue because he has told me if he chooses to put me into subspace (notice I said it is his choice, not mine), then he is responsible for me on every level. He enjoys this or he would not ever do it, and it is doubtful I could get him to do anything he did not want to do, or be responsible for anything he did not want to be responsible for. In his mind since I am in an altered reality state, such as being high on drugs, he has taken this on... I do not know how I could lessen his responsibility for me, and to be frank I never have thought about how I could take that "burden" from him.. he doesn't seem to feel burdened by it as far I as I can tell.. I will have to ask him about that.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 5:25:05 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

To me anyway, if a sub or slave can intentionally "release" themselves from "bondage" it's not bondage.
I mean why bother in the first place?


LOL usually I cant get out he uses pad locks but this time he didnt I dont know the reason why and I dont question my Master on it, sides he knows he doesnt even have to tie me down if he tells me not to move I dont move no matter what he just likes it as do I

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 5:26:07 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I trust my Master with my life that isnt an issue as much as I feel like a bad slave by putting all that on him in a scene and not takeing some of the waight off his shoulders by looking out for myself a little

Magik's slave

We often speak of how important it is to be able to trust our dominant/master, but I believe it is just as important that they are able to trust the submissive to tell them if things have gone awry.  From your OP, it sounds to me as if you were able to communicate to him, yet you persisted in communicating that you were fine when the opposite was true. Trust is a two-way street. 

< Message edited by catize -- 10/8/2006 5:27:05 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Why??? - 10/8/2006 5:26:26 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh and julia I understand about the miss comunication no worries that happens a lot here in the written word world

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 40
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