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RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 3:29:46 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
One knows they are truly in control of their sub when He/She/It can fit the submissive into their ear.
Sinergy


I have spent a considerable amount of time in my Daddy's pocket, but never his ear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure
...Ummm, Julia.... I know you don't mean this how it sounds. You wouldn't walk out on a friend who might be in trouble, would you?


While I don't have permission to speak for Julia, I think that what she was trying to say was that she would hope that the people in whom she and her dom choose to invest their time would not create this kind of drama and act in such an irresponsible manner, not that she would walk out on a friend who was "in trouble".

I'm wondering who, in this situation, you are identifying as "the friend in trouble"? The guy who could not control his feelings of jealousy and acted out selfishly against someone who trusted him or the woman who refused to safeword even though she was having limits violated left and right?

I want to be clear in that Im not placing blame. I do see quite a bit of responsibility resting on the shoulders of both the man and the woman involved in the scene. And I agree with Julia. I don't want to hang out with people like that either.


while I dont like the entire walk away thing I am ashamed to say that if i were in that place i would probubly have falen apart watching this... I have never been a voyer and honestly while you can beat me all you want I cant stadn watching others get hurt.. Master found this out the hard way the first time he took me to paddles!! I prolly would have interupted the scene myself if not directly indirectly wiht my own cries I deffinetly would have pleaded with Master to let me at least leave the scene if not ask him to get the DM or something but that me IM hyoersensative and it sounds as if this would have been way to intence for me to sit by and watch!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 5:50:03 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

I'm wondering who, in this situation, you are identifying as "the friend in trouble"? The guy who could not control his feelings of jealousy and acted out selfishly against someone who trusted him or the woman who refused to safeword even though she was having limits violated left and right?


I truly don't understand your confusion... PlayfulOne described the woman as, "a very close friend of ours" and "a female swtitch (sic) who has become vbery (sic) close to us"; I thought it was fairly clear who I might identify as "the friend in trouble".

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

I want to be clear in that Im not placing blame. I do see quite a bit of responsibility resting on the shoulders of both the man and the woman involved in the scene.


I may be wrong, but I don't believe placing blame on or assigning responsibility to any of the parties was either requested or warranted.  It was my impression that PlayfulOne merely asked for opinions on whether he "should hacve (sic) acted, or just waited till the end".  Perhaps others might feel it necessary to make some kind of judgement on the people involved before deciding what their own actions might be; that is, of course, their right.  Personally, I stick to evaluating my own actions with the intent to decide whether or not I can respect myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

And I agree with Julia. I don't want to hang out with people like that either.


I can't possibly fault you for having your own standards of friendship.  Perhaps I erred in my question to Julia by projecting my own values onto her and PlayfulOne.  As a habit, I don't abandon people with whom I've developed friendships, simply because they might make foolish decisions occasionally or periodically behave in ways that I personally might not approve... and I certainly don't do so at a time when they might need my help most.

But, as I said, that is how I treat the people that I care for.  I do apologize if I've assumed incorrectly that Julia or PlayfulOne might behave similarly.

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 5:59:39 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If I cannot interupt a scene and I am under certain rules to never do that. I must ask my Daddy to do what he feels is right, if I feel emotionally like I cannot take a situation I am going to want to leave it. It is up to my Daddy to vocalize his feelings to a dominant, not me.

If I know the submissive intimately like my best friend who is also a submissive, well I am going to plead with my Daddy to stop it because I KNOW where my friend's limits are. If I am not close enough to know what is going on I do not feel it is my place to interupt... does that make sense? It is one reason I am a little scared of public play, as I have mentioned on another thread that it would be hard for me to watch if i thought someone was being harmed and I would want to leave. I trust my Daddy, other doms I do not know I am less sure of.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/25/2006 6:00:33 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:05:14 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
I am certain that Julia and owned both value their friends and loved ones.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:13:26 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


I am certain that Julia and owned both value their friends and loved ones.


My best friend was involved with an alcoholic insanely jealous dom, it scared the shit out of me for her, but I could not stop her could I? Believe me, this man hated my guts for encouraging her to dump him, he was an abusive psycho who ended up stalking her and me too.... I have taken care of friends that were beaten by their significant others. I have helped them leave abusers. I am totally compassionate, but I cannot overstep my bounds at a play party when I am with my Daddy whom I have promised to obey in such a setting.

I did not catch in the OP that he knew this woman intimately or well enough to know what she had agreed to.. he was not privvy to their negotiations... my best friend knows all my limits and I know all hers.. so if someone was carving her up with a knife I think I might break my vow of silence because I love her like my sister, but if I do not know someone well enough to know their limits they are probably little more than an acquaintance to me...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:15:06 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Well.. knowing me.. and if i wasnt with my Daddy.. but on my own..

i'd of said to hell with whats right or wrong or what ppl think.... and i'd of stepped in.  I'd of walked over to her face, looked at her and said "are you ok"??  I'd of asked questions, i'd of jumped in and i'd of gotten massively involved and if i looked like a retard who has no clue of formatilies so be it. 

but then thats just me.  I dont really care what others think is right or wrong, i follow my own right and wrong and if i had read her body langauge saying she was in distress - i'd of said screw it and jumped in.  If i ended up wrong, so be it, atleast i was RIGHT for me. 

If my Daddy was there.. i'd of mentioned or showed him that i thought there was something that needed to be done and then waited for what he thought was best.  Cant actually answer what he'd do.....

But then this is right for me and what is right for me isnt always right for others.  Dont feel guilty because you did what is right for you.  Which is all that matters.   If what you did wasnt right for you.. then eh - live and learn, its all you can ask of youself, we all make mistakes. 

As far as drama goes.. drama is only what you make it.  If you dont make it drama, its not drama.  We all have the option of walking away from so called drama any moment we wish.  Your participation and how you participate makes it drama.  IE walking up and asking her if she's okay.. is not drama (in my book) walking up to him and screaming at hiim what the F is his problem is drama.  Drama really is all what you make it.. and unfortunetly folks.. life is drama.. duhhhh.. the best you can do is simplify situations and tone them down the best you can. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:21:20 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


I am certain that Julia and owned both value their friends and loved ones.


I assumed from the beginning that PlayfulOne does as the option of leaving his friend doesn't appear to be one that he even considered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

...Do you think I should hacve acted, or just waited till the end?...


I also presumed that Julia does, as well... hence my requesting clarification on her choice of words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

Ummm, Julia.... I know you don't mean this how it sounds.


I'm glad that we agree. 

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:31:17 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		LT, are you or is your dom going to address this situation?

If your dom does not address it then do you go over his head to do so?

Im speaking from that vantage point, I have no power to do anything in such a situation, perhaps your dynamic works differently than mine... one on one I say what I want to a sister submissive, but I have no right to say anything in that situation according to the rules set forward in my dynamic. You have insinuated I am a less than caring individual for not wanting to feed this show by remaining in its presense. In my mind if I do not know what was negotiated the person is probably not a close friend I am abandoning.. I would never abandon a close friend

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:45:06 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


I am certain that Julia and owned both value their friends and loved ones.


I did not catch in the OP that he knew this woman intimately or well enough to know what she had agreed to.. he was not privvy to their negotiations ...  if I do not know someone well enough to know their limits they are probably little more than an acquaintance to me...


While PlayfulOne didn't specifically describe his relationship as "intimate" such as a best friend, his description of "a very close friend of ours" and "a female swtitch (sic) who has become vbery (sic) close to us", and the fact that he was willing to drive 3 hours just to meet her friends, seemed to imply that she was more than an "acquaintance".

He and his little one also appeared to know her well enough to sense something was wrong...

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

...From the moment we walked into the door things felt off.   There was an immediate tension in the air between us.  I was rather confused and didn't know what the hell was going on...

...My little one and I were both uncomfortable.  It seemed half way through that things had taken a bad turn there were times when both of us had thoughts that we should interject...

...But within 5 minutes of it being over, when we were giving her the after care ... and details started to fall we knew that we had been right in what we were thinking and feeling.


But this is just how I perceived what he wrote.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 6:49:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Like I said, I would never leave a friend, but I would not interupt their scene as a submissive either.

I did not catch your answer about whether you would take it upon yourself to interupt the scene or would your dominant? It is not my place within the rules of my dynamic. Your rules may differ from mine, but I respect my rules and it is really up to him what is done.. read his reply, he posted on the subject..

Edited to say I do not mean to sound short, but there is really no other reply to be had.. this is one of the few ways I feel restricted as a submissive, and that is in protecting other submissives. it is my inclination to do so, and it bothers me that I may one day be in this situation which is unfair to everyone involved... These are the rules I agreed to

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/25/2006 6:52:14 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 7:03:16 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LevelWhat a horrible situation to be in, K. I totally understand what you did (and did not do), and what you're feeling. I think Fire said it well, their baggage is not yours, and she ultimately had the responsibility to speak up. I hope she learned from it, and I do not mean that harshly.


It is funny that people here are quick to say I'm not okay, and bad mouth me any
number of different ways,  Yet, it it is my position that the top has full responsibility
to make sure a scene does not go wrong.  Submissives want to please, that is
their nature.  I would never do anything that scars a submissive, even if she
agreed to it.  To my viewpoint that is not sane.  Moreover, as a top it is my
responsibility to make sure I understand what my partner is willing to accept, and
what she is not willing to accept and what she is willing to consider.  If things
progress gradually enough, with enough discussion, there is little chance for
things to go wrong.  I may even stop during a scene to make sure things are
okay.  I would rather destroy the mood one evening than risk doing something
that might upset my sub.  I would never depend upon a safe word to end a
scene.  Many subs go into subspace, and can't use their safe word.  Subs
often place there emotional, physical, and mental welfare in your hands, 
and place their soul in your hands.  I am not going to violate that trust, I
am going to earn that trust, and never make her feel like she made a mistake.
 
Cheers,
Michael
 

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/25/2006 7:05:09 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 7:15:54 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

LT, are you or is your dom going to address this situation?


If FirmHandKY is with me, then I trust he will take appropriate action.  His comment to this thread should give a good indication of how he would approach such a situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If your dom does not address it then do you go over his head to do so?


Though it is doubtful that he would take no action, should that happen, I would still stand by my own principles and do what I felt needed to be done.  After all, I still have to live with myself.

That does not mean that I would rudely interject myself in the middle of the scene.  I could very politely request a moment to check to see if my friend is alright.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Im speaking from that vantage point, I have no power to do anything in such a situation, perhaps your dynamic works differently than mine... one on one I say what I want to a sister submissive, but I have no right to say anything in that situation according to the rules set forward in my dynamic.


Perhaps a slight difference in dynamics, then. 

FirmHandKY's comments to me, "...you certainly have my permission to speak up, especially in the absence of my actions to "take care of a moral issue or dilemma".  In the case under discussion .... I'd prefer you discussed it with me first, but ... I'd more prefer that you not compromise your own moral principles..."

Of course, as I said, it is doubtful that he would not take appropriate action.  I doubt even that I would have to make any request of him to do so.  My faith in him is based on our compatibility in moral and philosophical ideas. 

Because you appear to be a very intelligent woman, I assume that in your choice of dominant, he reflects your own personal beliefs, as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You have insinuated I am a less than caring individual for not wanting to feed this show by remaining in its presense. In my mind if I do not know what was negotiated the person is probably not a close friend I am abandoning.. I would never abandon a close friend


I was not the one to insinuate that you are a less than caring individual. 

On the contrary... because your postings have shown you to be a thoughtful and caring person, I felt certain that your comment here did not accurately represent you.

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 9/25/2006 8:11:06 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 7:30:35 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

...I did not catch your answer about whether you would take it upon yourself to interupt the scene or would your dominant?


Forgive me... while preparing my comment, I did not see that you had posted further and had asked your question.  I trust that my subsequent response was adequate.

Though for clarity's sake, I will add... though doubtful but within the realm of possibility, should FirmHandKY made a decision that I disagreed with, I would still abide by it.  That is the dynamic that I agreed to, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Edited to say I do not mean to sound short, but there is really no other reply to be had.. this is one of the few ways I feel restricted as a submissive, and that is in protecting other submissives. it is my inclination to do so, and it bothers me that I may one day be in this situation which is unfair to everyone involved... These are the rules I agreed to


I have not taken your comments as short, Julia.  I can see that you feel very passionately about this subject, and may feel hesitant about how you may have to live within the constraints that you've agreed to.

If you will forgive my unsolicited advice... as I said, you appear to be an intelligent woman; trust yourself.  If you've chosen wisely, Sinergy won't let you down.

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 9/25/2006 7:59:39 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 8:34:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's amazing how quickly we let the idea of consensual responsible adults fly out the window and turn it into "what *I* say goes."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 8:44:49 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Julia Master would have my butt iffin i steped out of place our relationship is I am slave he is Master however Im not so sure Id be able to controll my fight or flight instincts if i thought another was really getting harmed and this is why Master prolly would never have me in that situation I dont handle stress or conflict well. But also master allows me my opinion and has told me I owe no one submition save for him and a select few that he have viewed as earning my respect... There for while Master wouldnt be thrilled if I interupted a scene that was going well and that I just didnt like(which I would NEVER EVER do), if the guy was really acting as he PO (and im not doubting that he was) had said Im not really thinking Master would have had a problem with me protecting my friend because with me its instinct and in a situation Im not sure how much I would think befor I acted.. Like I said fight or flight would over come me in need to protect my friend!!

I hope that makes sence

Edited to add now why does this all make me feel like a bad slave?? :(

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 9/25/2006 8:51:46 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 8:46:13 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Sigh, no wonder victims get so celebrated and coddled in the scene.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 8:48:28 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have taken care of friends that were beaten by their significant others. I have helped them leave abusers. I am totally compassionate, but I cannot overstep my bounds at a play party when I am with my Daddy whom I have promised to obey in such a setting.



Hello A/all,

If something can be done it will be done.

If nothing can be done, we will leave so as not to be party to an injustice.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 9:09:22 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Sigh, no wonder victims get so celebrated and coddled in the scene.

So in your opinion how far would it have to go before it is appropriate to step in and check the status of the submissive? The OP said the woman was bound to a cross, flogged and a knife was used. I'm pretty sure a strong blow from a flogger could break a rib, so would bloody froth at the lips be enough?

The scene the OP described was neither Safe nor Sane nor Consensual and that is shameful. I hope that if any of my sub friends are ever in such a position and I'm not present someone has the courage to stand up and stop such a scene.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 9:23:30 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "It is your responsibility!"

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Help Please - 9/25/2006 9:26:31 PM   
HollyS


Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i'd of said to hell with whats right or wrong or what ppl think.... and i'd of stepped in.  I'd of walked over to her face, looked at her and said "are you ok"??  I'd of asked questions, i'd of jumped in and i'd of gotten massively involved and if i looked like a retard who has no clue of formatilies so be it. 

but then thats just me.  I dont really care what others think is right or wrong, i follow my own right and wrong and if i had read her body langauge saying she was in distress - i'd of said screw it and jumped in.  If i ended up wrong, so be it, atleast i was RIGHT for me. 

But then this is right for me and what is right for me isnt always right for others. 


I would suggest rethinking directly interrupting a scene, no matter how you think it's going.  You may feel better approaching your friend directly, but it might not help the situation and might make it worse. If you're genuinely worried about your friend's safety, it matters far less what's "right for you" and far more what's right for your friend.  Jumping into a scene as you describe would get you in real trouble in many clubs/play parties.  Personally I would look for the owners of the space and speak with them quietly, since the safety of the participants falls directly on their shoulders.  And as someone else said, if the two people in this scene own the space, then I can't see any way to intervene until the scene is over. 

You don't have to agree with others about what may be right or wrong, but when you enter someone else's playspace, you agree to behave in certain ways.  Just because this top broke his covenant with his bottom doesn't mean you can break the house rules and inject yourself in someone else's scene (assuming, of course, that the bottom isn't in imminent danger of physical harm, maiming, death).  As for the OP, it sounds like you regret not honoring your "spider sense" when it warned you that something wasn't quite right.  No one can know all outcomes and I think you did the best you could under the circumstances.  You were there for her when she needed you...that's the real measure of a friend. 

Be well,

~Holly



< Message edited by HollyS -- 9/25/2006 9:31:26 PM >

_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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