RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (Full Version)

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MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:22:03 PM)

To sweet raiken; I appreciate your candor and insights ... excuse Me for My ignorance - but I just looked at your profile and realised you were a woman....'sheepish grin'



charismagirrl -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:22:26 PM)

IMO atleast within my relationship with my Daddy/Master...we are very much in love with eachother and we love and like eachother.
We are also in a TPE realtionship.

That being said, he's explained to me that because he loves me so very deeply and has taken the time to earn and command my trust it will make it that much easier for me to endure the nasty things that  he will put me through...

He's also made it abundantly clear that even though he finds me beautiful and is more than proud to own me, that he is not so afraid of losing me that he could be manipulated by me in any way. It is also due to this love that he will do as he pleases with me.

These things add to our relationship, our love and my deep and growing respect for him. He is a man who says what he means, does as he pleases and doesn't budge from them regardless of what i say. He also never feels as if he has to hold back on anything.

Maybe (and i'm only surmising here) it's different since we are in a Daddy/girl relationship.(?)



Lashra -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:30:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Whatever works for you.

To me, seeing someone locking themself in that mindset shows they are fearful and insecure, afraid to give their heart. In my opinion, giving love makes us stronger. I certainly would not judge a Master that was strong enough to love and still master his slave. Rather I would aspire to be more like them.


I agree wholeheartedly, it sounds like the inability to give of oneself is because they are dominated by fear. I realize not all Owners want to love their property but I think when they do it makes the bond even deeper. Just my opinion.

~Lashra



juliaoceania -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:32:47 PM)

I am sorry I misunderstood the post, it is just that the words "watered down" and "politically correct" seem to imply something negative to me, since that was not to insult others who do it differently, no offense taken...

My Daddy says he wants a dynamic in which both people are the more than they are alone...Everyone's path to get there is different

I do not know why you posted this though unless you wanted to disagree with masterrocker's worldview, which you did in bold-faced type... I do not know what his words have to do with the way anyone else feels, he was posting in the first person too, wasn't he?



MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:36:10 PM)

No Juliaoceania - I was just acknowledging someone who was in agreement with Me. Nothing personal - this is the net - never take anything here personally -
HUGS
MASTER Rocker



Voltare -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 2:47:55 PM)

Lashra,

not sure where I said I didn't love my girl?  Rather, the key is that I love her enough to be strong with her.  That I don't fear holding back, or treating her roughly, or simply being myself, out of fear that she will be harmed.  Instead of 'submitting' anything for her approval, I give her all I have, and take all she has to give.  There's no compromises in the amount of our love, because there are no compromises in who we are.

Julia, the bold faced type was actually part of the quote posted by Rocker - I just cut and pasted it the way he typed it.







TNstepsout -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 3:09:18 PM)

quote:



Obviously, the rough play is balanced by more mundane gentle kisses, holding hands, dancing slow, and the morning "mmmffppp... baby.. mm.. coffee... zzzzz."  As a slave, she submits utterly.  As her owner, I own, utterly.  Watering it down might make it more politically correct.  Fuck politically correct.

Stephan


 
Sorry, but I disagree. If you can't give your heart away and be vulnerable you aren't a master of anything. And I don't understand what giving your heart and loving someone has to do with "watering it down". I do not see these things as mutually exclusive. I don't see why you can't both give your heart AND be structured and strict. Parents do it all the time.



Celeste43 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 4:35:10 PM)

Firstly, sadism and dominance are not synonyms. Many sadists are dominants but many have no interest in power relationships. Additionally there are dominants who don't get off on dishing out pain. So when you say that if you loved your sub, you couldn't pull her hair you have a whole mixed bag of mistakes. Secondly, you forget that loving someone means giving them what they need and if your sub needs her hair pulled to become sexually responsive, then not doing it would not show love, but the converse.

Overall, some subs need love in a relationship and so do some doms. Cookie cutter sentiments are rarely true for all and everyone.



MagiksSlave -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 4:43:17 PM)

Personaly agree with the part about a Master submitting his heart though I think the trust and communication are VERY importent as well ( I dont know if I read the quote right but it sounded like he was saying that those arent importent though Im not sure he may have left out some ponctuation which changes the meaning) But I think giveing your heart is a very importent part of any intamet relationship even if it is only a friendship... shore you become more volnerable to get hurt and stuff but it makes the relatioshiip so much more rewording its worth the risk in most cases... thats my opinion.

Magik's slave



RedSavageSlave -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 4:53:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Whatever works for you.

To me, seeing someone locking themself in that mindset shows they are fearful and insecure, afraid to give their heart. In my opinion, giving love makes us stronger. I certainly would not judge a Master that was strong enough to love and still master his slave. Rather I would aspire to be more like them.



He is not saying that he does not give his heart or that he does not love.. what he is saying is that in a D/s relationship this kind of statement CHANGES the entire dynamic of the D/s.. and I do totally agree.. I was in that situation.. I walked away from a marriage and someone I considered my best friend.. because his love for me caused this shift in thinking.

Tossing in my nickel for My .02 cents worth and extra to subsidize the low income.



gypsygrl -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:06:01 PM)

Call it what you will, but I'm not a romantic, and I've never desired a D/s relationship that involved love.  Concern, care, structure, discipline, the sense of distance and even indifference, are all things that attract me to whatever it is we do.

I was involved in a long term relationship that floundered precisely because he, the Dominant, wanted to be my lover and my best friend.  It just doesn't work for me.  And, yes, I agree with Frank01 that there's an element of 'bait and switch' when the Dominant falls in love.

And, in all honesty, I don't know if I can or want to fall in love.  Its not what I'm looking for.  I use a vocabulary of attachment and bonding rather than love. Basically, I think of myself as a barnacle and the Dominant a ship. :)



Lashra -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:14:11 PM)

I never said that you didnt I merely replyed to the OP.[:)]

~Lashra



MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:18:44 PM)

ahh..... this is the problem ladies.... to love a slave is NOT to fall in love with her..... Once you fall in Love = it is better to make a wife or mistress than to keep as before.....
MASTER Rocker



mstrjx -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:37:46 PM)

About a month ago, I had as part of my tagline, the following quote (mine) was included.  Nobody asked about it, and it certainly requires a bit of thought, but it applies here.

Shadow puppets are the perfect metaphor for life.

Possibly should be amended to read 'the life we lead'.

These sorts of disagreements could use looking at things a different way.

Jeff



twicehappy -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:42:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
 Rather, the key is that I love her enough to be strong with her. 

 

I believe this is the crux of the matter that most are not grasping.

My Master and Mistress love me; Are they in love with? I think they are falling in love as well.
 
What needs to be said is that to me, both are possible, both are desired in any relationship i am in.
 
Here is the key; they must love me enough to be strong enough not to let this interfere with their ownership, with their domination of me.
 
Too often i have seen a dominant allow love to interfere with the D/s or M/s dynamic, there is no faster way to end this type of relationship than this.
 
We are friends, we are playmates, we are lovers but underneath this the Owner/slave dynamic is the foundation on which the rest stands.



CreativeDominant -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:44:48 PM)

There have been some interesting replies on here.  The most interesting thing to me is the variation in viewpoints.

You have those dominants and submissives who feel that they cannot let the "being in love" have too strong a place in the relationship for fear that it will disrupt the D/s dynamic.

You have those dominants and submissives who do not want to be in love at all with their dominant or submissive.  They want to dominate someone or submit to someone out of respect/caring/maybe even loving  for/of them but they do not want to be in love with them, again because of the fear of loss...which may or may not come from actual experience but rather from what they've observed with others...of the structure.

You have those dominants and submissives who believe that they can be in love with their dominant or submissive and still maintain the structure of the D/s relationship as long as each party recognizes it and uses the love to enhance it as well as using the D/s structure to enhance the love relationship.

And of course, I've seen posts from those professionals who of course would not want to be in love with those they dominate.

Have I dominated someone without being in love with them?  Yep.  Have I dominated someone while being in love with them?  Yep.  The end of the relationship in either of these cases had nothing to do with the presence or lack of love either in terms of "loving" someone or "being in love" with them...the reasons existed outside of the "love" relationship and the D/s relationship. 

I guess my point here is not to agree with any one viewpoint stated on here but rather to thank all of you for all the varying perspectives.  As for me, I know what I want and what I don't.  I'll spend the rest of my life single before I compromise on what is truly definitive for me and will sacrifice what I feel is worth sacrificing in the desire for something greater than me or her alone..and that would be me and her...whoever she is...together. 



wild1cfl -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:52:09 PM)

Very interesting thread here. I feel that while I can love a submissive that does not mean that I submitmy heart to her. It means that I love her enough to know what she needs from me and she loves me enough to know what I need from her. If you want to call this submission of the heart that is fine for you, but not for me. Love and submission are two totally different things. I can have a submissive that submits to me but does not love me or I love her, I also can have a lover that submits to me or does not as is the case with my wife and my pet. I love both, one is my partner as my wife and also as a Dominant. The other is our lover but also our submissive. She is like a second wife to me in a sense and also a wife to my wife, but she is definitely a submissive to both of us.



MASTERRocker -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 5:53:53 PM)

Along the same thoughts...... A Master Molds and creates this..............
YOUR Subspace

 



 

Heavy blindfold
and the outside world goes dark.
Centered, her world leaps to life
as other senses fill in the gap.
Nerves alive
super-sensitized
and taking it all in,
she quivers
with the heady intoxication of his presence
and shivers
at the thrill of his touch.
Ropes bind limbs
as his will binds her heart
and her mind.
Her spirit soars
in the subspace
he frees her to enter.


From the MASTER's Desk

MASTER Rocker



Frank01 -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 6:02:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Call it what you will, but I'm not a romantic, and I've never desired a D/s relationship that involved love.  Concern, care, structure, discipline, the sense of distance and even indifference, are all things that attract me to whatever it is we do.

I was involved in a long term relationship that floundered precisely because he, the Dominant, wanted to be my lover and my best friend.  It just doesn't work for me.  And, yes, I agree with Frank01 that there's an element of 'bait and switch' when the Dominant falls in love.

And, in all honesty, I don't know if I can or want to fall in love.  Its not what I'm looking for.  I use a vocabulary of attachment and bonding rather than love. Basically, I think of myself as a barnacle and the Dominant a ship. :)



I get people terribly upset when I tell them that I am basically aromatic. They simply cannot understand a person not wanting to have some gooey love attachment in a relationship. I've stopped trying to justify how I am, I simply am wired that way.

I have a sense of valuation in it's place- how much someone can bring to the table and help with a mutual enhancement of our quality of life. And the more someone can offer, and do-the more that sense of value increases. So I guess that you might say that my relationships are based on performance-rather than emotion.

Which is why I am big on things of merit being EARNED-rather than being given away willy nilly from emotion........if a girl has something of value from me-she will damned well know she deserves it.



new2encounter -> RE: A Master is only a Master if His heart can submit.... ... ... ? (9/26/2006 6:19:29 PM)

Hi i am totally new here but this topic struck a cord.
My Master and I were married 5 years before BDSM entered our lives. We were both in love as well as loved on another. I feel we are both still in love and I still love him and he still loves me.
Are you all saying that we can not have a productive M/s relationship becuase of our complete love for one another? Can't a Master who Loves his slave control her just as well as a Master who is just attracted to his slave?
I think when you are in a completely loving and devoted relationship there are more hurdles to cross in the BDSM area. Yes we have to watch ourselves...him giving in or I trying to sway him but I dont think those things are not only found in the "in Love" M/s couples but in ALL M/s relationships. Every slave will try the ropes and see how tight they are... so to speak.
Our orignal LOVING Husband wife relationship was and still is the foundation of our M/s relationship. Everything has been built from that place becuase that is what came first ...for us.



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