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When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 7:41:28 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		In the USA land of the free and home of the brave, more and more U.S. citizens are having to battle out with there Home Owners Association to have a simple patriotic display of the American Flag on there own property. The argument is that the american flag makes the place look tacky. Flag poles are not allowed because they are obscenely gross to these Home Owner Asses. Does anyone think that someone shouldn't display there patriotisim in there own country on there own land?

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 7:47:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think they should read their community standards before signing that they have...smiles.

I do not like communities that tell others what color to paint their house, whether they can park an RV or a boat in their yard, or what sort of shrubbery they are permitted to have.. that to me is crappy yuppified bullshit. I do not care what people have in front of their house, but if they buy property they should know the community standards they agreed to abide by and quit trying to change them. If you do not like it, do not buy a house there

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:03:49 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		      I have to go with Julia on this one.

      Personally, I wouldn't wish to live in a neighborhood where I can't fly the flag on holidays or turn on the Christmas lights when I wish or put up a scary Halloween display.

      Let the buyer beware.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:07:30 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should read their community standards before signing that they have...smiles.

I do not like communities that tell others what color to paint their house, whether they can park an RV or a boat in their yard, or what sort of shrubbery they are permitted to have.. that to me is crappy yuppified bullshit. I do not care what people have in front of their house, but if they buy property they should know the community standards they agreed to abide by and quit trying to change them. If you do not like it, do not buy a house there


I quite agree, julia. When I was hunting for my condo I wanted a place I could plant my own garden, decorate my door as I pleased, use my porch as I pleased, hang festive things on my door, etc and not micro managed into " little pink houses".
We have general rules of courtesy and cleanliness in our association, with much latitude and allowance for personal choice.  Alot of people never read the docs before they buy,  it was a must for me.
                       mbmbn

                             mbmbn

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:13:02 PM   
joyinslavery


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Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

In the USA land of the free and home of the brave, more and more U.S. citizens are having to battle out with there Home Owners Association to have a simple patriotic display of the American Flag on there own property. The argument is that the american flag makes the place look tacky. Flag poles are not allowed because they are obscenely gross to these Home Owner Asses. Does anyone think that someone shouldn't display there patriotisim in there own country on there own land?


Hi Fangs...I don't think anyone was saying the flag makes the neighborhood look tacky - just a debate about how it is displayed.  A flagpole isn't the only way to display Old Glory.  Personally, I understand the resistance in some neighborhoods to flagpoles.  Couldn't the homeowner display the Stars and Stripes from a pole attached to brick, wood, etc. on the exterior of the home?  I doubt they would encounter much resistance to that.  From what I've seen, this guy is just dead-set on a flagpole and the HOA is resisting that. 

I've seen those news reports too and they do tend to run a bit over the top but honestly, I don't think this is about someone's right to display our flag as much as how it is displayed. 

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:21:54 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

     I have to go with Julia on this one.

     Personally, I wouldn't wish to live in a neighborhood where I can't fly the flag on holidays or turn on the Christmas lights when I wish or put up a scary Halloween display.

     Let the buyer beware.


I love gawdy christmas stuff, the more the better... I love the plastic santas and the plastic sliegh thing on the roof with the reindeer that light up. Mexican Nativity sets are the best. I do not like tasteful Christmas decorations (God I hope my Daddy does not read this and think I am a a Christmas nutjob, but since he has this Ren and Stimpy picture on his foyer wall I do not think he will care).

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:23:26 PM   
Bluebird


Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		I can almost guarantee the issue was over the pole and not the flag.  And it's not "tackiness" as the issue.  In Las Vegas, most new homes are in HOA communities - and yes, you do get a big fat book of rules that you SHOULD read prior to signing a contract on your house.  Of course, few people do, hence the issues.  It may shock people in a lot of places, but the average "yard" size here is only 5 feet all the way around your house.  Now, stick a 20 foot flagpole in your 5 foot deep backyard - how does that look to the rear and side neighbors, do you suppose?  We CAN and do have many flags flying in our neighborhood (including mine) that are on angled poles that come off the front of the house.  We can even light them at night so long as the overall display is appropriate to a home rather than say, a McDonald's.  If you want to have total freedom to do what you want with your yard/house/driveway/etc., then you really should not live in an HOA.  But if you see your house as an investment as well as your home & your castle, then you may want to forfeit a few minor rights (like being forced to take down your Christmas lights prior to Memorial Day) to help maintain the property values in the community.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:38:38 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		My personal favorites are:

1)  It being considered un-American to wear the american flag on or as clothing, which was popular to rant about hippies who made shirts and jackets with the American Flag on them.

2)  The nitwits who want to make flag burning a crime.  Considering the normal way to retire / get rid of a flag is by burning it.

Dont these people put their brain in gear before ranting?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:47:42 PM   
Bluebird


Posts: 384
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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My personal favorites are:

1)  It being considered un-American to wear the american flag on or as clothing, which was popular to rant about hippies who made shirts and jackets with the American Flag on them.

2)  The nitwits who want to make flag burning a crime.  Considering the normal way to retire / get rid of a flag is by burning it.

Dont these people put their brain in gear before ranting?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy


Actually, wearing a "pseudo" flag is against official protocol.  As is its use in advertising, and a whole lot of other uses that are common.  I agree, people make more out it than is needed, but there are actual laws associated with the proper use & display of the American flag.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:52:20 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My personal favorites are:

1)  It being considered un-American to wear the american flag on or as clothing, which was popular to rant about hippies who made shirts and jackets with the American Flag on them.

2)  The nitwits who want to make flag burning a crime.  Considering the normal way to retire / get rid of a flag is by burning it.

Dont these people put their brain in gear before ranting?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy


Actually, wearing a "pseudo" flag is against official protocol.  As is its use in advertising, and a whole lot of other uses that are common.  I agree, people make more out it than is needed, but there are actual laws associated with the proper use & display of the American flag.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html


I am aware of the laws.  I am also aware that these include the proper way to retire (burning) a flag.

Sinergy

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:53:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I live in a fairly small condo development of 64 units with an H.O.A.
Our HOA is pretty cool here and you can decorate your front porch pretty much anyway you want, halloween stuff, Christmas lights, flags, you name it.
Some of them can be pricks though.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 8:55:41 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		I love seeing the flags on the cars and the Harleys its ..well......just so dashed American you k now old chap.......just not the done thing where I come from......!!

But our neighbours found it strange that we had never owened a Union Jack.......

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 9:23:36 PM   
Bluebird


Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My personal favorites are:

1)  It being considered un-American to wear the american flag on or as clothing, which was popular to rant about hippies who made shirts and jackets with the American Flag on them.

2)  The nitwits who want to make flag burning a crime.  Considering the normal way to retire / get rid of a flag is by burning it.

Dont these people put their brain in gear before ranting?

Just me, could be wrong, etc.

Sinergy


Actually, wearing a "pseudo" flag is against official protocol.  As is its use in advertising, and a whole lot of other uses that are common.  I agree, people make more out it than is needed, but there are actual laws associated with the proper use & display of the American flag.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html


I am aware of the laws.  I am also aware that these include the proper way to retire (burning) a flag.

Sinergy

Believe me, I agree, the proposed laws/amendments that crop up at election time each year are asinine.  They are (much) more about politicians than respect for the flag and the country it represents.
 
I'm not arguing with you, Sinergy, I just figured in a discussion like this it was possible that someone might *not* know that there is an actual Code associated with the whole issue.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 9:54:16 PM   
Saratov


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Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am aware of the laws.  I am also aware that these include the proper way to retire (burning) a flag.

Sinergy


Are you also aware that there are very specific requirements associated with the retiring of the flag.  They don't include spitting on it, stomping on it or kicking or urinating on it before or while burning it. 

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 10:18:54 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think they should read their community standards before signing that they have...smiles.

I do not like communities that tell others what color to paint their house, whether they can park an RV or a boat in their yard, or what sort of shrubbery they are permitted to have.. that to me is crappy yuppified bullshit. I do not care what people have in front of their house, but if they buy property they should know the community standards they agreed to abide by and quit trying to change them. If you do not like it, do not buy a house there


Yup.... definitely driven by snobby yuppie /urbanites. I hate to sound cruel...... but it's gonna be a field day watching all the equity drained out of those homes after the first group of dominos start to fall.

Run with the dogs get bitten by the fleas.


 - R

PS - In rural Southern Oregon.....some live like Fred Sanford but are never judged in so way.



< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 9/26/2006 10:20:30 PM >

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 10:25:41 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		A similiar thing happened in Scottsdale Arizona with a place called Westworld. It has a large semi permanent building that is white. They decided to have an American flag painted on the side of the structure. Well the uproar was absolutely ridiculous as to whether they had the right to paint it there and whether it was not a proper display of the American flag. This went on for weeks with Westworld having to defend themselves and thier brand of patriotism. I say people should be allowed to fly the flag in their front lawns or on thier house if they want to and it should be against the law to say they cannot do it.  

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 11:03:31 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		It became tacky when the blood from torture victims starting splashing on it.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/26/2006 11:44:52 PM   
Bluebird


Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild1cfl

..... and it should be against the law to say they cannot do it.  


Since moving into an HOA community is voluntary, why should there be a law that says anything about the height of a flagpole?  Do you really think that is the best use of the limited legislative session time?  If the rules don't appeal to you, just live someplace else where you can do whatever you wish.  Or, if you "accidentally" (?) moved into a community where you don't like the rules, do the old-fashioned thing - get involved, get on the board, and work to make some changes.

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/27/2006 1:58:09 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Looking from the UK, I can say you definitely, definitely need rules for who can fly your flag, where, why and how. We lost the British Union flag and the English Cross of St George to the nazis over here for a long, long time. They used them in their marches and activities, and they became associated with naziism when used anytime that was not a state occasion - ordinary citizens couldnt use them at all. What didnt help in that situation was the multi-cultural policy environment of the UK, which whilst the nazis stole our flags, seemed to encourage the use of immigrant communities' flags even when they had become British citizens, and saw our flags removed from many public buildings for fear of causing offence.

The situation is now improving, and a lot of that is I believe down to soccer and support for the England team in international tournaments which has taken the flags back from the extremists and united multiple communities behind it and the team, if even for a short time every now and then. Flags fly from cars, are hung in windows and waved in the streets for positive reasons. Still, we're a reserved lot really and they all come down afterwards - apart from the one next to my PC monitor of course!

I think it would be a bit odd to have a flag on every house and building, but maybe one flag in a prominent focal place in each community would be a good thing. A flag is a lot more than simply a piece of coloured cloth - it represents that which binds a nation together, and certainly in Britain that's a good thing that's definitely needed.
E

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RE: When did Old Glory become tacky? - 9/27/2006 2:22:26 AM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Looking from the UK, I can say you definitely, definitely need rules for who can fly your flag, where, why and how. We lost the British Union flag and the English Cross of St George to the nazis over here for a long, long time. They used them in their marches and activities, and they became associated with naziism when used anytime that was not a state occasion - ordinary citizens couldnt use them at all. What didnt help in that situation was the multi-cultural policy environment of the UK, which whilst the nazis stole our flags, seemed to encourage the use of immigrant communities' flags even when they had become British citizens, and saw our flags removed from many public buildings for fear of causing offence.

The situation is now improving, and a lot of that is I believe down to soccer and support for the England team in international tournaments which has taken the flags back from the extremists and united multiple communities behind it and the team, if even for a short time every now and then. Flags fly from cars, are hung in windows and waved in the streets for positive reasons. Still, we're a reserved lot really and they all come down afterwards - apart from the one next to my PC monitor of course!

I think it would be a bit odd to have a flag on every house and building, but maybe one flag in a prominent focal place in each community would be a good thing. A flag is a lot more than simply a piece of coloured cloth - it represents that which binds a nation together, and certainly in Britain that's a good thing that's definitely needed.
E


I love the fact that the Union Jack and St. George are no longer in the possession of the extreme right-wing.  It's especially good to watch Amir Khan appearing in the boxing ring and on his website http://www.amirkhan-boxing.com/ draped in the flag.  Imagine that happening here in the seventies.....

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