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M/s vs. D/s - 9/26/2006 10:49:06 PM

BD123

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On several recent postings in the forms, the terms M/s and D/s where use. Is there a distinct difference between Master/slave and Dominate/slave? Or are they the same?

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/26/2006 10:51:51 PM

SadistCpl4fslv

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BD123 I believe you read my thread concearning my thoughts on this subject.......but simply put in my opinion there definately is a difference. However, you will find that with the lines so blurred these days you are likely to find many that don't see or know a difference at all.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/26/2006 11:08:40 PM

OhReallyNow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BD123

On several recent postings in the forms, the terms M/s and D/s where use. Is there a distinct difference between Master/slave and Dominate/slave? Or are they the same?

this slave is owned property; she has given total control over to Master

if this slave had not given up total control, then her relationship would be that of Dominant / submissive

this is not the general agreement, only what this slave uses to describe her own relationship with Master

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/26/2006 11:17:41 PM

DiurnalVampire

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The difference is usualy Dominant/submissive, and Master/slave. When someone acknowledges the difference, it is the difference between the perception of a Master and slave relationship and the usualy less intense (in other's views) of that of a Dominant and a submissive.
My boy and I have a M/s relationship, since I am his owner now. However, I would also describe what we have as a D/s relationship... it al deends on how you view it.

DV

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 4:43:44 AM

Dnomyar

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I will agree with OhReallyNow on this one.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:23:44 AM

zumala

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OhReallyNow's definition disturbs me a little bit. Probably because I just heard from a slave on the other side who decided to tell me out of the blue that her Master sold her to her current Mistress as a sex slave and that her Mistress demands sex constantly. She said it was hard but she /had/ to serve.

I pointed out that actual slavery is illegal in the States and that my understanding of the difference between slavery and BDSM was consent. I told her she actually had a choice. She can stay and serve, or she can leave. It's up to her to decide what is in her best interest.

If you have the CHOICE to leave, you cannot truly be owned property. Or can you? I guess you own your dog and it can run away. Bah, don't mind me. Not enough coffee yet, obviously.

zuma

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:31:25 AM

OhReallyNow

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zumala

OhReallyNow's definition disturbs me a little bit. Probably because I just heard from a slave on the other side who decided to tell me out of the blue that her Master sold her to her current Mistress as a sex slave and that her Mistress demands sex constantly. She said it was hard but she /had/ to serve.

I pointed out that actual slavery is illegal in the States and that my understanding of the difference between slavery and BDSM was consent. I told her she actually had a choice. She can stay and serve, or she can leave. It's up to her to decide what is in her best interest.

If you have the CHOICE to leave, you cannot truly be owned property. Or can you? I guess you own your dog and it can run away. Bah, don't mind me. Not enough coffee yet, obviously.

zuma

yes, if you have the choice to leave, one can just leave.

however, when this slave offered herself to Master, she did so knowing ( in her mind and in her heart ) that there would be no release unless Master decided to end the relationship. She also knows that although she is just property, Master would never do anything to harm his property intentionally.

Now, one thing that was discussed between this slave and her owner, prior to her offering herself, was something along these lines. It was accepted by Master that this slave would not be 'sold'. Master has the right to loan out his property at his whim and will and this slave accepts that, but, with our agreement in place, Master can not 'sell' his property to another.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:40:54 AM

LadyMorgynn

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There are slaves out there who consider themselves "real" slaves, and owners who consider themselves "real" owners and can sell their slaves as their option if they so choose. This is still consensual of course because the slave chooses to enter into "real" slavery with these terms. Of course she can leave, legally speaking. But even if she does not like what she has to do for her current owner, she is living the life she wants, that of being owned. She may even be enjoying her "martyr" attitude and gets a thrill out of telling people her situation (which she would not dare to voice, very likely to her owner). Fact is, she does have a choice, and this is hers. There is at least one website and forums that I know of for people who live this lifestyle. It's certainly not for everyone... but it is still a lifestyle that people are living consensually.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zumala

OhReallyNow's definition disturbs me a little bit. Probably because I just heard from a slave on the other side who decided to tell me out of the blue that her Master sold her to her current Mistress as a sex slave and that her Mistress demands sex constantly. She said it was hard but she /had/ to serve.

I pointed out that actual slavery is illegal in the States and that my understanding of the difference between slavery and BDSM was consent. I told her she actually had a choice. She can stay and serve, or she can leave. It's up to her to decide what is in her best interest.

If you have the CHOICE to leave, you cannot truly be owned property. Or can you? I guess you own your dog and it can run away. Bah, don't mind me. Not enough coffee yet, obviously.

zuma

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:33:50 AM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

Probably because I just heard from a slave on the other side who decided to tell me out of the blue that her Master sold her to her current Mistress as a sex slave and that her Mistress demands sex constantly. She said it was hard but she /had/ to serve.

You got that email too? So did twicehappy and I... when it was all said and done we were both told that we were male pigs that couldn't read or write and we never heard from her/him/whatever again... lol

And I think that OhReallyNow summed it up beautifully.

Jewel

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:52:01 AM

MasterFireMaam

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In the end, the difference is what YOU see it to be. What you are getting is a set of opinions. Take was works for you. I subscribe to the definitions that Merc put forth from the presenter at Folsum (spelling?). Top/bottom = physical roles, Dominant/submissive = mental roles, Master/slave = spiritual roles. Not everyone agrees with this...it just so happens that I'm apart of the crowd that does.

Master Fire

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 5:43:44 PM

diamonddreamlove

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Levels of committment is how i see it. In the beginning i talked with a Dom, then my Dom and we plan if all continues as it is to make it Master in the next few months. By agreeing that He is my Master i am giving Him more control of my life than anyone has ever had of me, myself included. He will make the decisions and i will obey as set forth in our agreement. Every relationship has some agreement between the two that sets it apart as being special. We are negotiating that agreement now. LOL kind of like a prenup only more intense and yes have had a prenup before and like this agreement they are only as good as the honor of both parties. He will be Master only when i am offered His collar and i accept it. Then and only then does He have IMO the permission to rule my life as the Master. Until then i have the right to make my own decisions including whether i will give Him submission. Would He be less if i just called Him my Dom. I think not and since He wishes me to refer to Him as My Dom now without a collar, i believe we both are able to see the distinction between Dom and Master in our relationship.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:02:54 PM

BrutalAntipathy

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I see the master/slave relationship as one of the seemingly paradoxical consensual non-consent. By this I mean that the slave has willingly given up their choice in the matter of their relationship, holding the belief that their owner(s) will remain true to the negotiations and discussions prior to collaring. Sure the slave can walk out if s/he chooses, circumstances governing restraints permitting of course, but it really is not a question of legality in that slavery is illegal. Since when did legality stop things from happening? Did prohibition stop the sale and consumption of alcohol? Does a submissive's consent bear much weight to a police officer or judge inclined to classify their bruises as abuse? Legality is irrelavant here. While most BDSM'ers will agree that slavery is consensual, not all of us agree that consent is at the underpinning of slavery. This is where consensual non-consent comes into play. I think that this is one of the areas that coherent definitions are most needed. If the person in question thinks that they should have the right ( regarding the relationship, not in the legal sense, as each person that swings a flogger is breaking some law concerning abuse and domestic violence, regardless of consent ) to walk out at any time, they probably should define theirself as a submissive, not a slave. To dub oneself a slave in this area only leads to misinterpritation, hard feelings, and possible jail time for the person that is left wondering how things could have been so badly misinterprited.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:40:43 PM

Lashra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zumala

OhReallyNow's definition disturbs me a little bit. Probably because I just heard from a slave on the other side who decided to tell me out of the blue that her Master sold her to her current Mistress as a sex slave and that her Mistress demands sex constantly. She said it was hard but she /had/ to serve.

I pointed out that actual slavery is illegal in the States and that my understanding of the difference between slavery and BDSM was consent. I told her she actually had a choice. She can stay and serve, or she can leave. It's up to her to decide what is in her best interest.

If you have the CHOICE to leave, you cannot truly be owned property. Or can you? I guess you own your dog and it can run away. Bah, don't mind me. Not enough coffee yet, obviously.

zuma

For the life of me I cannot understand why a person would allow themselves to be *sold* off like that. I definitely don't understand the slave mentality, I will admit that, but why would a person allow that to happen? Particulary if they were unhappy with the person they were sold too? It makes no sense to me.

~Lashra

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 6:59:34 PM

wild1cfl

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D/s is the contraction for Dominant/submissive.
M/s is the contraction for Master/slave

D/s is where the Dominant and submissive have a relationship that is usually based either on an Safe, Sane and Consensual power exchange, this is another contraction SSC that you will see used often. Another form that has become popular lately is RACK or Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Basically this involves the negotiation between the Dominant and the submissive. Many of these relationship have limitations on play as well as general agenda of a relationship as far as how far the submissive will allow the Dominant to go. Each D/s relationship is unique unto itself as it is an individual relationship. This definition is a basic general guideline.

M/s is the relationship that is more based on what many consider the complete giving up of control by the slave to the Master. There may be negotiated limitations on the relationship prior to the slave entering the relationship completely that would limit the Masters ability to do such things such as selling the slave, or permanent damage or markings for example. Each Master/slave relationship is unique unto itself in that it is an individual relationship. This Definition is a basic general guideline.

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My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:01:43 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

For the life of me I cannot understand why a person would allow themselves to be *sold* off like that. I definitely don't understand the slave mentality, I will admit that, but why would a person allow that to happen? Particulary if they were unhappy with the person they were sold too? It makes no sense to me.

~Lashra

The games people play...

This kind of thing is not common, I don't believe, and goes on usually within the confines of a local community - I've heard of it once or twice through the grapevine, and presumably requires a relatively clueless - or bored - submissive.

If it isn't all fun and games, it's unlawful prostitution (not sure about Nevada) or felonious slavery.

The right of course continues the fight to preserve marital slavery in the name of religion, it's handy 'cause you only have to consent once, and never have to worry your pretty head about it again!

http://www.fairness.com/resources/one?resource_id=5384

Can't find the source article, but it sounds like one of those clever backdoor statutes like being required to tell your husband if you're having an abortion, so he isn't unfairly cheated of the opportunity to beat some sense into you.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:09:16 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:09:30 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BD123

On several recent postings in the forms, the terms M/s and D/s where use. Is there a distinct difference between Master/slave and Dominate/slave? Or are they the same?

Where I find it to be problematic is that there is really no graduated steps from submissive to slave, and some people define submission as such a watered down version of slavery that I could not identify with either.

I think what I have noted from watching people here that call themselves slaves is that it goes beyond a submissive mindset. I have read things like they have no will to leave their master no matter what, they have no desire to assert themselves to be independent from their master's will. They have the slave mindset. It is a different animal than trying to define a set of actions. Two people can be engaged in the same actions within dynamics but have completely different motivations....

Does that make sense to some slaves and submissives out there? I am trying to quantify what I have read... and I maybe totally off base.

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/27/2006 7:39:00 PM

OhReallyNow

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quote:

I have read things like they have no will to leave their master no matter what, they have no desire to assert themselves to be independent from their master's will. They have the slave mindset.

this slave can not answer for others, only for herself; but in regards to the first part where you say that slaves have no will to leave their Master no matter what:

IF this slave was being abused, then this slave would leave in a heart beat. IF this slave's unmentionable was placed in harm's way, this slave would end the relationship in a heartbeat.

Outside of those two, this slave has no desire ( notice she said DESIRE and not WILL ) to end the ownership that Master has over his property.

In regards to the last part of your statement; that slaves have no desire to assert themselves to be independent from their Master's will:

this slave IS independent. She does not live 24/7 with Master. She pays her own bills, and raises her own child. Yet, when this slave offered herself to Master, she ALLOWED him to accept partial responsibility of this slaves responsibilities. Master keeps track of what this slave spends, etc. In regards to the raising of her unmentionable, Master has no control in that area at all. This slave will often ask for his advice on something in regards to her; but ultimatly, it is this slaves own decision on how to proceed.

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CONFUCIUS ~

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/28/2006 12:21:26 AM

leakylee

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Juliaoceania,
When I was property I did not reside with my Owner, but I was an complete entity within myself. I had my own home. I maintained my own bills. I did all the things that women are supposed to do. But, I was his. My mind, heart, and body floated for his will. It was a completely voluntary process. My progress to slave was actually step by step. It took alot of soul searching, alot of inner reflection, but this was not something that could happen with just anyone. This was a state that He inspired in me. It was something that He drew out in me. It was a level of devotion that I have never expericed with any other individual.

On some levels I could almost have claimed to have had no limits. None but his, of course. But it was a mental, and spiritual connection that pulled that out of me. I felt Him no matter where or when I was. But when the needs arise property is capable of being true to the responsibilty that they have to themselves. To ensuring thier own welfare. It can happen. I guess alot just depends on the person. I dont know if any of this makes sense. Just my thoughts.

Love and light
Lee

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RE: M/s vs. D/s - 9/28/2006 12:28:48 AM

Frank01

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The difference is what it means to the individuals involved. Nothing has any validity beyond that.

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