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Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 8:36:14 AM   
CrappyDom


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Our Hollow Army
by [link=http://leevank.dailykos.com/]leevank
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Tue Sep 26, 2006 at 07:56:24 PM PDT
This is a day old, but I don't see that it was diaried yesterday, and I definitely think it's worth knowing about.  Yesterday, the New York Times had an excellent article entitled Unit Makes Do As Army Strives To Plug Gaps, dealing with the situation of the 3rd Infantry Division, which is now preparing for a likely third tour in Iraq.  It paints a very sobering picture, and fleshes out, in more detail concerning a single division, what the 3 retired officers testified to in yesterdays hearing held by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee

  • leevank's diary :: ::
  • Although they can't legally criticize the administration, the senior officers of the 3rd ID were surpisingly open about the problems they are having, and the effect on their readiness.

    Col. Tom James, who commands the division's Second Brigade, acknowledged that his unit's equipment levels had fallen so low that it now had no tanks or other armored vehicles to use in training and that his soldiers were rated as largely untrained in attack and defense.


    Think about that for a moment:  The Army's doctrine since shortly after Vietnam has been that units need to train together, and that it's not enough to take a soldier who has been through basic training, plunk him into a unit, and expect that unit to function effectively.  But these guys CAN'T train together, because their equipment is in Iraq, and they really can't effectively train without equipment.
    And not only is the Second Brigade without equipment, it is seriously short of men, and much as the Army is trying to make do with computer simulations, it's hardly the same thing:

    The enormous strains on equipment and personnel, because of longer-than-expected deployments, have left active Army units with little combat power in reserve. The Second Brigade, for example, has only half of the roughly 3,500 soldiers it is supposed to have. The unit trains on computer simulators, meant to recreate the experience of firing a tank's main gun or driving in a convoy under attack.

    "It's a good tool before you get the equipment you need," Colonel James said. But a few years ago, he said, having a combat brigade in a mechanized infantry division at such a low state of readiness would have been "unheard of."


    Is this an isolated situation in the Second Brigade of the Third ID?  Not exactly:

    Other than the 17 brigades in Iraq and Afghanistan, only two or three combat brigades in the entire Army -- perhaps 7,000 to 10,000 troops -- are fully trained and sufficiently equipped to respond quickly to crises, said a senior Army general.


    Apparently, two of the four brigades in the Third ID are in pretty much the same situation of having no equipment and far short of their full complement of troops, while the other two have received nearly all of their required equipment and nearly all of their complement of troops, but many of the troops are very raw, having just completed basic training.  The overall picture isn't a pretty one:

    Since this summer, 1,000 soldiers a month have been arriving at Fort Stewart, 400 of them just out of basic training. As a result, the First and Third Brigades are now at or near their authorized troop strength, but many of the soldiers are raw.

    The two brigades started receiving tanks and other equipment to begin training in the field only in the last month, leaving the division only partly able to respond immediately if called to Korea, General Lynch said.
    "I'm confident two of the four brigade combat teams would say, `O.K., let's go,' " General Lynch said in an interview. "The Second and Fourth Brigades would say, `O.K., boss, but we've got no equipment. What are we going to use?' So we'd have to figure out where we're going to draw their equipment."


    And the Third ID is an active duty unit.  The situation in the National Guard is even worse.  The New York Times had another excellent article on the situation in the National Guard yesterday in an article entitled Strained, Army Looks To Guard For More Relief.  The difficulty is that the National Guard is in even worse shape than the active duty Army.  

    Given the lengthy lead time required for calling up, training, equipping and deploying Guard forces, Pentagon officials said that if more Guard members were mobilized, it would probably be for a rotation that begins in 2008.

    Even so, Pentagon and military officials said that it was unlikely that any decision on a Guard mobilization would be necessary for several months or even into next year, which would place any announcement beyond the November mid-term Congressional elections.
    To take on a greater load in Iraq and remedy existing equipment shortfalls, the Guard needs $23 billion over five years, Guard officials say.
    "There is no brigade in the United States Army active, Guard or reserve that is completely ready back at home," General Blum [the head of the National Guard Bureau] said. "That is to ensure that every brigade overseas is completely ready. And by ready I mean completely equipped. Right now, the key to readiness of the total force is equipping it, resetting it and modernizing it. It is a function of time and money."


    If you doubt the seriousness of the equipment shortages, I suggest that you drive past the closest National Guard armory to wherever you live.  Last week, I happened to drive past our local National Guard armory for the first time in quite a while, the parking lot of which has normally been at least half full of Humvees and trucks.  The lot was completely empty, which I assume means that the equipment is in Iraq, even though the unit isn't currently deployed there.
    It's about time for those on the right who give lip service to "supporting the troops" to begin REALLY supporting them -- by either reducing our military commitments to a level that can be sustained with our present level of spending, or by telling their wealthy supporters that they're going to have to forego a few of those tax reductions in order to spend the money to build a much bigger, well-equipped military that can sustain the current level of military activity
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 8:51:04 AM   
    pahunkboy


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    does this mean we bring back the draft?

    (in reply to CrappyDom)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 8:54:05 AM   
    CrappyDom


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    The wimpy anti-war leftist have been trying to do that for some time.

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 9:47:24 AM   
    LadyEllen


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    Not a happy situation, but then this has ever been the lot of the soldier from what I understand - never enough equipment.

    On this subject, it may interest you to know that of the British troops sent to Iraq for the invasion, very few had the NBC suits which the theatre was deemed to require, and even now the British army is so short of helmets and body armour that they have to be shared, many having to do without.

    Meanwhile, the army is on a desperate recruitment drive, because the interest in joining has been evaporated by the likelihood of being a participant in the ongoing Iraq conflict. A conflict to which the British public and many of its elected representatives said no, but in which we got involved anyway.

    E

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 10:04:37 AM   
    meatcleaver


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    Don't forget LE that soldiers in Helmond province in Afghanistan are short of equipement and desperate for reinforcements and are fighting at close quarters and even hand to hand on a daily basis and Blair and Co say everything is fine! The officiers say it is only their training that is getting them through. Blair says are soldiers are doing great. Well yeah, they are doing great because of what they have to deal with but doing great shouldn't mean coping with a fucked up policy and no equipement.

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 10:46:22 AM   
    popeye1250


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    The last time I heard we had Troops in 130 different countries!
    In S. Korea now for what, 55 years?
    Bush was right; "Mission Accomplished."
    We got Saddam now it's time to hand over the keys to their new country to the Iraqis.
    We need about 30,000 of those Troops stationed along that Mexican border.
    Troops are never good at being "Occupation Forces."
    They're too vulnerable to sporadic attack.

    (in reply to meatcleaver)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 1:08:47 PM   
    DomKen


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    We need about 30,000 of those Troops stationed along that Mexican border.

    I asked you this before, what are those troops supposed to do? They can't be used for law enforcement and unless I've missed something Mexico does not seem to be about to invade the US.

    (in reply to popeye1250)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:06:41 PM   
    popeye1250


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    Domken,.....ahhhh securing our border with Mexico?
    And they could be used for law enforcement if Mr No-balls Bush would declare Martial Law along that border.

    (in reply to DomKen)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:21:51 PM   
    NastyDaddy


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    pssst.... we also have another border with Canada. If you put 30,000 troops along a marshal law line bordering Mexico, what will stop the Mexicans from going around to the Canadian border? That border is only about three times as big as the Mexican border. Maybe we can cover the Canadian border if we don't have the troops hold hands while standing along the marshal law border line up there?

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:37:23 PM   
    popeye1250


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    Nasty, and how would you handle the problem of 3 million illegals pouring over that border every year?
    It's easy to criticize but what about a solution?

    (in reply to NastyDaddy)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:40:18 PM   
    Lordandmaster


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    You're really getting to be a one-string fiddle, popeye.  Is there ANYTHING you ever talk about other than illegal immigration?

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    We need about 30,000 of those Troops stationed along that Mexican border.

    (in reply to popeye1250)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:55:11 PM   
    NastyDaddy


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    My point was to illustrate that as long as there is a way in.... it will be exploited.  My suggested solution would be to do away with the bait that attracts them, make it harder to use illegals as lowest paid labor sources.  What's happening is literally outsourcing from within, and it's inviting the illegals here... and will continue to do so as long as it is permitted. 

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 2:55:20 PM   
    popeye1250


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    L&M plenty of things, seems though that for whatever reason this topic upsets some people.
    I thought this was a "discussion" board.

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 3:11:12 PM   
    WyrdRich


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          We don't need 30,000 troops Popeye.  All it would take would be:  A;  A Presidential finding that illegal border crossings represent a clear and present danger and B;  About 100 sniper teams with Barrett light .50's.  The word would spread quickly.

         It isn't going to happen.  

    (in reply to popeye1250)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 4:08:51 PM   
    CrappyDom


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    Rich,

    I bet we could hire a bunch of east german border guards really cheap and they are quite good at shooting civilians, it would be a great win win for everybody.

    I notice none of the neocon butboys are posting and where is my dear friend Caitlyn who loves claiming how great the army is doing.

    (in reply to WyrdRich)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/28/2006 9:44:46 PM   
    DomKen


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: popeye1250

    Domken,.....ahhhh securing our border with Mexico?
    And they could be used for law enforcement if Mr No-balls Bush would declare Martial Law along that border.

    Sorry, the President cannot do that. Some governors have the power to declare martial law inside their state but the President does not have that power. Furthermore the Posse Comitatus Act prevents using US troops for law enforcement inside the US even if the President could declare martial law.

    If the border states are really that concerned with illegals entering the country they are free to declare martial law themselves and use their state's National Guard troops which would be perfectly legal if an utter and complete waste of time.

    As long as construction companies, landscaping companies and assorted industrial plants can get away with hiring undocumented workers the illegals will find ways to get in. If you want to force the illegals out find a way to stop employers from employing them and they will most certainly go away.

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/29/2006 2:55:53 AM   
    Kedicat


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    Surely a few 100 billion dollars in privatization will solve the problems. As long as they can hire an all immigrant military that will work for beans or rice.
    Even better, the dead will not be white americans, so the war can go on forever.
    As they scrape the bottom of the barrel, and make it ever more a corporate business endeavour, it becomes ever more a mercenary force.
    It's all, don't ask, don't tell now. How long is my tour? We'll get back to you on that. Do I get a flack jacket? It's on order from China. What's in that needle? What's in that pill? Do you have a manual for this missile with more pictures?
    Shut up and shoot. Who? Who cares!

    (in reply to CrappyDom)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/29/2006 3:24:50 AM   
    LadyEllen


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    A UK perspective - the UK has only one land border, with the Republic of Ireland, which also is an island. The only ways to get here other than swimming, is on a boat or through the Channel Tunnel, or by plane. Limited options to be sure.

    In short, all the means of entering the UK are possible to strictly control. If you try to swim, then unless you're a really good swimmer you wont make it even the shortest route (about 25 miles I believe). If you come by plane, then you will have to go through passport controls and be picked up - thats if youre permitted to board a plane without the relevant travel documents in the first place. If you come by private boat, then you might just have a chance of finding somewhere to land which is not a port and just have a chance of not being seen - what with us being so overcrowded that even at the top of a mountain you can rarely ensure youre going to be alone. If you come by commercial boat (ferry from the mainland) you also have to go through passport control and since the ferry company gets fined for bringing illegals in, they wont let you board in the first place - same thing with the Channel Tunnel. The next best bet is to gain access to a truck which is going to Britain by ferry or the Tunnel - but then you'll find that the heartbeat and CO2 detectors at the mainland ports will pick you up long before youre on or under the sea.

    And yet - they come, they get in, they disappear and no one knows how many are here. My brother is now an immigration officer dealing with this stuff every day - before that he did deportations, and was always working all hours along with hundreds of others like him, and the numbers were never dented. I work in European transport, so I too am familiar with it - confiscated trucks, jailed drivers, wrecked cargos etc do not make for a happy view on illegal immigration. And yet these people remain people, coming from desperate circumstances for the hope of a better life.

    The point being, that even if the US pulled all its troops from around the world (which would result in a very dangerous vacuum in many places) and put them as border guards - these desperate people would still find a way in. Worse, the instability in some countries that would result from a US pullout, would prompt an even greater flow of them. Theyre not bad people in the main - many are the best and brightest of their families, sent abroad to earn money to send back to impoverished relatives. I'm not sure that more than a few who complain dont understand that, and also have no idea of what poverty is.

    And until our own citizens will knuckle down to the jobs these people will do, but which for our own unemployed are beneath them, theyre pretty much an essential part of society. Scrubbing public toilets might not be the ideal aspiration of US or British school leavers, but hey, if you fucked up all through school and there's nothing better you can do, then you'd best get them rubber gloves on!
    E




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    In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/29/2006 3:32:34 AM   
    Kedicat


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    Even if everyone is an engineer or PHD, there will still be dirty toilets and the need for someone to clean them.
    And there must be some percentage of engineers and PHDs who piss on the seat and the floor, and take some bizzare pleasure in plugging up the toilet then flushing.

    There is some sort of truism to a sort of communistic concept of equality of pay for cleaning up after the slobs who suppose they are your betters.

    (in reply to LadyEllen)
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    RE: Our worn out army - 9/29/2006 3:34:36 AM   
    meatcleaver


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    The best way to stop illegal immigration is for the west to allow development in under developed countries instead of dumping our subsidized food and products on them or exploiting them for raw materials we should allow fair and free trade. Forget giving aid, it has so many conditions attached it is pointless.

    (in reply to LadyEllen)
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