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Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 11:58:54 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am having a lot of confusion regarding parts of me I am discovering more and more. I am a nice guy, respectful, caring and compassionate. This is how I define myself.

But as I go deeper and deeper into my own dark rabbit hole, I have been finding out more and more about myself as a Dominant. During a scene, I like the idea of being rough. I like to be stern. I like to pull hair and be forceful. As I devel deeper, I find a part of me more and more that isnt gentle and kind, but cruel and harsh.

This is has been disturbing to me on many levels. I am struggling whether is right or wrong. If this is natural. And most of all why being this way during the course of play not make me an abuser?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 12:38:53 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Sounds like you are struggling with what has been pounded into your head from society and many people, if not most, go through that when they start discovering themselves in this life. I know it troubled me for a while to accept that I was perfectly OK to be on the other end of your desires even though I craved it.

Everyone has to try and hoepfully work thru these issues. For some it is easy for others it is not. The key on my end was just time and realizing I was not changing in a bad way or unhappy by it but I was happier and good things were coming out.

As far as worrying about being an abuser is a good thought and tells me it would be tough for you to become one. As long as you go to great lengths to care about the mental and physical safety of your sub/slave and both of you have communicated what you want, looking for and enjoy then hopefully you can start to see society's politically correct claws loosen their grip. Just looking on this site you will see many people just like you and opposite people looking for people just like you.





(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 12:41:48 PM   
LASub4Real


Posts: 169
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		MadRabbit, I will go out on a limb and say that it may be that all of us human beings are capable of both great compassion as well as great cruelty. So what you are "discovering" is not so much unique to you as it is native to all mankind. Now in a BDSM context, a Dominant must MIX both a measure of cruelty and compassion together for the deired result. If you are finding it difficult to do that, then perhaps you should step back and get some help assessing what your feelings really are and where they are coming from.

You haven't really described anything that sounds so terribly severe or abusive in your post, but the fact that your conscience is pricking you does give me some cause for concern if not alarm. No matter how anyone else replies to your post, remember that no one can get into your head and understand why you are feeling uncomfortable about this. I personally think it's worth a bit of introspection. I think the main thing that you must ask ourself is whether you would act out as a means of bettering/fulfilling your sub or of hurting them.

LAsub

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 12:42:13 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		I'm very primal if I am interacting with someone who is able to engage in a heavy scene. From an outsider looking in it could very well be perceived as abusive. Heavy blows with various tools, biting, scratching, hair pulling, face slapping... bruises, welts & blood is often a possibility from any of the before mentioned actions.

The reason it isn't abuse is because I make damn sure that the one I interacting with is completely ok with my rough handling. I check often & make sure they are ok with what is happening. I always offer safewords & signals even if they don't want them. If at any time I feel the scene has gone far enough I can/will call a safeword.

This is also not an activity I would do with someone that I don't know well. I wouldn't suggest placing a pretty young thang you just met up there to suffer the full wrath of your primal being.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 12:47:29 PM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Well I would say if you were 'forceful' to all then sure, I'd say it would be a cruel nasty persona, if you were doing nothing other than pulling hair and inflicting pain, you would be cruel as well...
I think the key words here are 'balance' and 'consent'...
Not everyone wants to be treated with kidgloves all the time...
If one has a sub or a slave who has a masochistic leaning, then would it not be equally cruel to not inflict pain?

My girl isn't a painslut as such, but with a bit of pain added to the discipline and restraining she slips into her subspace much easier, and it is then that she becomes less reserved about her 'primal sexuality'..
At first like yourself I had reservations about 'hitting' a woman, (it was how I was raised), and I still would not raise a hand in anger at a female... But having seen where a bit of pain can lead to in a D/s situation, I have become quite fond of it and fairly creative in coming up with new 'tortures'.. My little one always gets a concerned look on her face when I discover a new implement, raise my eyebrows and go 'hmmm..'... But if she didn't get a thrill out of it she would have learnt not to give me ideas by now.. *chuckle*




(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 1:44:24 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i think it's very common for a Top or Dom to experience this shock at the inner beast.   it seems to be even more prevalent among bigger built guys.. they've been conditioned by society to go gently so as to not intimidate women, and pulling out that guy who can hit a chick is incredibly hard on males with high personal standards.  my own hubby/ Dom will not do ANy form of impact play for that very reason, it's become His hard limit, He may never be comfortable with being the guy that hits a girl, even at her request.  That said, it doesn't have to effect His willingness to be my dom and take the lead in O/our relationship. The stance on play or no play is just one more decision HE has the authority to make.

You do seem to like it though, so You'll have to learn to like the guy inside and trust He's not going to overtake Your soul and make You some wicked thing.  Just go slowly, and allow Yourself the aftercare of reassuring Yourself that what You do during play is treating her just like the lady asks.  Also, might help to remember that most subs or bottoms do know that Tops sometimes struggle with this.  she can help with that reassurance that You're still the good man she wants to be with, if You let her in on how you feel.  That revelation will not be anything but endearing to her.  (You might feel better if You restrict play to women You have a solid connection with , so You CAN be upfront about the goodman/ badman conflict.)

all i can offer for encouragement is .. remember You're keeping it consentual..  and You wouldn't "feel bad"  if she said "fuck me harder" now would ja?  lol. 

(in reply to Iskander)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 1:49:35 PM   
PONYSEEKER


Posts: 364
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like you are compleatly normal.  now learn how to control and tame it.

(in reply to Mavis)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 1:56:26 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		If your partner is consenting and you are not HARMING them or others (harm is different than hurt), whatever you wish to do is fine. Most people subscibe to SSC but some of us identify more with RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink).

As for the notion of right/wrong, good/evil...Suppose your hands represent good and evil, one for each hand. If you hold your arms out for a long period of time, seperating your hands as much as possible, you will find the pose hard to maintain. If you bring your hands together, so that they exist side-by-side, you can simply rest them in your lap. Integrating ALL the parts of you is much, much easier to maintain than splitting yourself.

I've been through this struggle, so this is why I speak up. I've recently had to embrace a side of me that I really didn't want, to begin with. Now, it is simply a part of me...and, of course, the Universe is showing me MORE sides of myself that I know I need to integrate.

Yin/Yang and all that.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 2:04:09 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm guessing most self aware dominants and sadists go through this. I've been in the lifestyle for a long time and it still comes up occasionally for me.

Some things to keep in mind, are you violating the limits of whoever you're doing these things to? If your partner signals she has had enough do you keep going? If not and keeping in mind what you say you're doing its not abuse and you're not an abuser.

(in reply to PONYSEEKER)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 2:11:11 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I am having a lot of confusion regarding parts of me I am discovering more and more. I am a nice guy, respectful, caring and compassionate. This is how I define myself.

But as I go deeper and deeper into my own dark rabbit hole, I have been finding out more and more about myself as a Dominant. During a scene, I like the idea of being rough. I like to be stern. I like to pull hair and be forceful. As I devel deeper, I find a part of me more and more that isnt gentle and kind, but cruel and harsh.

This is has been disturbing to me on many levels. I am struggling whether is right or wrong. If this is natural. And most of all why being this way during the course of play not make me an abuser?


Rabbit (I don't believe you are 'Mad' at all),
To reconcile what you are feeling you are only lacking two related considerations; time and experience.

You should never lose the "nice guy, respectful, caring and compassionate" you. As you continue on your journey you'll come to realize that these feelings are not in opposition to your "stern, hair pulling forceful" you. These are activities within the dominant/submissive relationship dynamic. You ARE being 'caring' when tapping these desires within a relationship where D/s plays an important part. Your caring will make you empathic with your partner. If your brain is only wired to play from the dominant side you will never mentally process the physical sensation that your submissive is feeling. However, appreciating what they are feeling is a good thing.

The afterglow of an intense physical scene will help you understand. Your confusion will evolve into concern.Time will alleviate some of that concern as you become more confident. Confidence will come from experience and time. However, you should never completely eliminate concern for your partners. Talk to them about your concerns.

And don't forget to laugh and have fun!

Good Luck!

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 2:16:28 PM   
BrutalAntipathy


Posts: 412
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		I struggled with my sadistic side for ages, trying to deny it, then remove it, and finally to overcome it. I sought psychiatric help, turned to religion, and engaged in celibacy in order to make it go away. But finally I came to accept it not as some disease or spiritual affliction, but as an aspect of my personality. Due to society and upbringing, it was not an easy thing to face, but I eventually came to grips with it. I realized that I would either control this thing within me, or it would control me. Better a caged monster than an ignored one. What you need to keep in mind is that you are not alone in this. You are not an isolated freak that needs help. You are a mostly normal person that has desires and feelings that deviate from the norm. There are others that you can talk to about these feelings, people that have been where you are now and have felt the same thing. Collarme has plenty of people that have been where you are, and most of us are more than happy to give advice on the subject.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 3:14:13 PM   
subsa


Posts: 196
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		i believe that having both sides you've expressed are what make great Doms.  the caring compassionate guy will make it easier for the sub to trust you....that you won't let things get out of control and things will stay safe and sane.  that is the part of my Master that allows me the complete freedom to experience the scene and not think about the scene and what we're doing.  the part about being rough, stern and harsh are part of what makes You the style of Dominant that You are (not what another is).  when you find (or have already found ?) a sub that appreciates and enjoys the physical aspects that you enjoy dishing out the two of you will make a great pair.  don't you see satisfaction in your subs eyes and body language when the scene is over?  she/he is probably quite happy that you have that rough, stern, harsh side. 
on the flip side, like you, i'm still struggling with how society would judge me.  the fact that i like not being equal and having all sorts of painful things done to my body is so frowned upon in our society.  but i've made great strides in not worrying about what society thinks and only being concerned with serving, pleasing, obeying, and submitting  to my Master's will.  i wish you luck on your journey through this lifestyle. 

(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 4:07:15 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I believe we all have to face that as we develop in our chosen path in the Lifestyle.  Once we see that it is 'okay', we know it's safe to continue, within our own bounds.

You might wish to check on the 'Self-Control' thread a few rooms up the ladder.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/28/2006 4:14:53 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

As I devel deeper, I find a part of me more and more that isnt gentle and kind, but cruel and harsh.

And most of all why being this way during the course of play not make me an abuser?


If you are doing it as part of a consensual relationship in which your goal may be to hurt but never to harm.. then you are not an abuser..

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Confused about desires - 9/29/2006 3:24:36 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the feedback. I have done a lot of contemplatition on this. This issue disturbed me more because of two things.

One, this whole thing arose mostly because I have been getting to know a sub who is into that kind of play. This, without a doubt, is a good thing to me because I like those desires. But she has had a whole string of abusive boyfriends before entering BDSM and being still new to this, I was struggling with how me doing these things now as a Dom makes me different then her boyfriends. So hence I presented the issue here in hopes of getting perspective as I had to make sure I clearly understood the difference and could also express it to her. The difference of course is self control and intent. BDSM actions are not done in anger, but to satisfy desries and erotic thrills.

Second, the inner Beast is something that I am aware of very much and it is a bit scary to me. Testerone driven primal sexual desires are incredibly powerful and I worry greatly that if I get too much into it, I wont stop if the safeword is spoken. That is a big fear for me. But once again, it comes down to learning self control.

I know sexual desires are not rational. They are simply just there. I also know the light and the dark exist in everyone. But knowing these things and trully realizing just what you are capable of are often two different things. I appreciate greatly everyone's words and support.

(in reply to RedSavageSlave)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/29/2006 5:29:22 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Thank you all for the feedback. I have done a lot of contemplatition on this. This issue disturbed me more because of two things.

One, this whole thing arose mostly because I have been getting to know a sub who is into that kind of play. This, without a doubt, is a good thing to me because I like those desires. But she has had a whole string of abusive boyfriends before entering BDSM and being still new to this, I was struggling with how me doing these things now as a Dom makes me different then her boyfriends........

....... I worry greatly that if I get too much into it, I wont stop if the safeword is spoken. That is a big fear for me. But once again, it comes down to learning self control.



I'd like to comment on this. There is a huge difference between someone abusing me and someone taking pleasure in causing me pain. Now, I'm not a masochist so if I'm submitting to pain it's to provide pleasure to the person I'm with. IF that person is a good Dominant-sadist, then they will not only enjoy causing me pain but they will also take care of me afterwards as my body deals with the endorphins that are released through the pain. I'm not left on my own to deal with all of it. They are involved in the after-care that I need. An abuser just abuses and then leaves or laughs at the pain they've caused. There's a HUGE difference.

Also, it might be helpful for you to only indulge in your deeper, darker desires when there is someone there to help you find your balance. A DM of some sort. I can see where it would be very easy to slip over the edge in play and do real harm instead of good hurt. Having someone there who is observing and can keep track of any problems would help, I would think. Once you've learned where your own inner boundaries are, then you probably wouldn't need the outside assistance. But while you're learning control, and to keep your submissive safe in the process, it might be helpful.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/29/2006 5:58:15 PM   
DomSA


Posts: 19
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		edited to say...i didn't realize my Master was logged on not me -(subsa).


i remembered i'd read something about the differences between sm and abuse.  i found it today in SM101 by Jay Wiseman. i thought it might help you....

1.SM play is always consensual.  Abuse is not.
2.SM players plan their activities to minimize the risks to one another's physical and emotional well-being.  Abusers do not.
3.SM play is negotiated and agreed to ahead of time.  Abuse is not.
4.SM play can enhance the relationship between the players.  Abuse cannot.
5.SM play can be done in the presence of supportive others-even at parties given for this purpose.  Abuse needs isolation and secrecy.
6.SM play has responsible, agreed-upon rules.  Abuse lacks such rules.
7.SM play may be requested, and even eagerly desired, by the submissive.  Nobody overtly asks for abuse - although self-destructive people may sometimes attempt to provoke it.
8.SM is done for the consensual erotic pleasure and/or personal growth of both or all participants.  Abuse is not.
9.SM play can be stopped in an instant, at any time, and for any reason when the submissive uses a safeword.  The victim cannot stop their abuser in that way.
10.In SM play, the dominant always keeps their emotions under control.  An abuser's emotions are out of control.
11.After SM play, the submissive often feels grateful toward the dominant.  A victim never feels grateful for abuse.
12.SM players do not feel that they have the intrinsic right, by virtue of their gender, income, or other external factors, to control the behavior of their partners. Abusers often do.

these are not my words...i want to give credit where it is due.  you might want to pick up the book if you have a chance. 

< Message edited by DomSA -- 9/29/2006 6:00:27 PM >

(in reply to sublizzie)
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RE: Confused about desires - 9/29/2006 7:04:42 PM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		MadRabbit:  Welcome to the club.

I grew up in a small town, with two sisters.  I was the oldest, and my parents constantly told my brother and I never to hit the girls, and always treat them gently.  As a result, our sisters (two years younger) took advantage of the situation, and were as vicious as girls can be, knowing full well we couldn't do anything back.  Even today, as I use a belt on my slave, I can practically hear my step-mother frowning.

More and more, men are taught that their physical and psychological instincts are not just irrelevant, but downright evil.  The impulses that ensured the survival of the fittest today sends millions of men behind bars.  We are told that what we feel is 'wrong' thus there must be something to be ashamed of.  In the BDSM world, this usually manifests itself in one of two ways (this is totally my opinion, btw, if you don't like it...) - men either accept and embrace these instincts, becoming Dominant, or they reject these instincts utterly, becoming submissive, and in some cases trans gendered.  Of course, I am generalizing, and each individual arrives in their own unique way as a result of hundreds of variables, but the point is there's nothing wrong.

I know for myself, there is also the added element of satisfying my woman - I know she is submissive, that she desires to be treated roughly, and that in 'meeting' my responsibilities, I am also keeping her content.  This can be found in almost any male/female romantic relationship, where the 'rough treatment' can be substituted for 'flowers and chocolate', 'big house and a pile of kids' or any other romantic cliches. 

Your girlfriend's past is obviously relevant.  I know exactly what you're going through - most of my girlfriends were abused in one (or many) ways.  A few things that may ease your mind a bit is that

a) if you weren't the one dating her, she'd probably be involved with someone else who was spanking her - she would have sought it out either way

b) many victims of this sort of abuse actually feel that their BDSM activities are therapeutic, permitting them to experience the sources of their pain in a safe, controlled environment, and allowing them to consciously come to terms with the abuse

c) obviously, she enjoys it.

If you're enjoying the activities, and she's enjoying the activities, and you both are adults, and you both have an idea of what you're doing (and making sure that you both keep an eye out for your safeties and reputations) then I'd say go for it.  If after a few months the thrill wears off, and you go back to a normal life - no harm done.  If you find a deeper and deeper desire to learn more and become more 'kinked' - then you can do so knowing that millions of people are right there with you. 

From experience, I will caution you, that most people who come to the lifestyle rarely leave it.  Not because we can't - it's like waking up with a second pair of eyes.  You'll look at your own parents and friends, and think 'ahhh I see why they get along - she's dominant, he's submissive!'  You'll get a better grasp at why you like some people, don't like others, and find some down right boring or irritating.

In the end, you're the one who has to wake up and face yourself in the mirror.  You have to decide if you like who is looking back at you.  Anyone else's opinion is about as valuable as... well... a bunch of strangers writing on a sex-personals website ;)

Carpe Diem!
Stephan


_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to DomSA)
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RE: Confused about desires - 10/1/2006 7:43:24 PM   
domimp


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/27/2006
Status: offline 		It's nice to see this topic as it's something I wrestled with a bit myself as I was learning and it's a real tricky one.  The fear of losing control of that hunger inside, that deep dark need to give pain and revel in dominating someone is something you should face in my opinion if you're a healthy human being.  I worried for awhile about losing control but eventually reached the conclusion that it's empathy that seperates a Sadistic dominant from a textbook sadist.  I derive no pleasure from causing pain, unless the other person wants me to do that.  Who you are is who you are, discovering something new about yourself doesn't make you stop being you.  I think you'll find that as you build trust with your sub and become more comfortable with them and what they are asking you for and what you want from them it will naturally get easier to draw the line between a hard/heavy scene and something that is excessive.  I think sometimes it's overlooked that the dom needs to build a strong trust and comfort level up also.  Enjoy, explore, get comfortable with what you're discovering about yourself and proceed with care and you'll do well.

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Confused about desires - 10/2/2006 10:40:46 AM   
maudite


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline 		I think it's a very good sign that you're self-aware enough to question these desires and really think about how comfortable you are with them. In a way, it's just as difficult for many subs to come to terms with their need to be dominated. As a feminist it was difficult for me to accept the part of myself that wants to be controlled by a man. I was sexually abused as a child, so naturally I wonder whether that's the root of my personal kink.

The conclusion I've come to, after much thought, is that it's because of feminism that I can now *choose* whether to submit, and to whom, and thus it's not a violation of my principles to do so. And even if my kink does have its roots in past abuse, my desires are genuine and I can turn them into something positive by engaging in safe, sane, consensual BDSM that fulfills those desires and makes me happy.

The key, I think, is to understand two things:
  • Your kink doesn't have to define who you are -- your sexual desires and your personal character are two separate things. Whether you choose to let that part of you rule your life is your decision.
  • Some people really do enjoy the abuse you like to dish out. That's what a consensual BDSM relationship is all about -- you like to get rough, and your partner likes you to get rough with them. Obviously it's very important to discuss these things beforehand -- you need to tell your sub what you'd like to do, and she needs to tell you what she's willing to take. You need a mutual consensus on what the limits of your play will be. But within those limits, what you do doesn't have to be a bad thing.
You're right to be concerned about your partner's history of abusive relationships. It may be that her desires aren't a healthy thing for her. It's also possible, though, that the reason she got into those relationships was because she was unconsciously trying to satisfy her desire for abuse but ended up with men whose violent tendencies weren't kinks, but character flaws.

I think it might be a good thing for you (and perhaps her, if she's unsure of her own desires) to have at least a couple of visits with a kink-friendly therapist who can help you come to terms with your inner beast. You're certainly not the only dom who's questioned his own motives. The Kink Aware Professionals site may help you find someone in your area to talk to. There may also be one or more BDSM groups in your area where you can find like-minded people willing to share their perspective and experience.

(in reply to domimp)
Profile   Post #: 20
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