RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (Full Version)

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poplolly -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/21/2007 2:30:39 PM)

I've read this post from the beginning and I think that Solinear's arguements are quite cogent, imo.




demistress -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/21/2007 2:31:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shamedmale

thank you Goddess Mia , at least you have a coherent argument and can see it from both sides ulnlike Solinear who seems to have problems with arguing his point intelligently
shamed



Funny, I thought Solinear made some great points, especially the doctors and psychiatrists comment, that was classic.  Then again, you think I'm criminal for not wanting to invest my time in some internet wanker without compensation for that time spent. 

FYI -- My billing rate for webwork is slightly higher than my pro-domme rate, but domming definitely brings me vastly more pleasure, and brings more pleasure to others.  So really, since every hour I'm dominating is an hour I'm not developing, since I'm charging the less, but providing a MORE valuable service, you might say that when I'm doing pro-domme work, I'm operating at a financial loss, and the client is not paying me what my time is worth. So I'm actually being very generous and charitable.  Oh, and my Domme tools/dungeon/supplies cost VASTLY more to maintain and update than my computer and development tools.




LadyEllen -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/21/2007 2:33:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: womenrule

               I really enjoy being dominated by a women but honestly is something I cant afford. Looks to me that its a fetish just for rich old guys, some mistresses ask for 300 an hour some even 500, come on !! thats a week salary and we dont even have sex.


Hmmm.

1) Not all women are what shall we call it? How about "psychosexually dominant"? ((PD for the purposes of this post) Of those that are, a high proportion are in stable long term relationships, or want such, and refrain from exercising or exhibiting their PD openly. Of those remaining who do exercise and exhibit their PD openly, many are also in stable long term relationships or seeking such and so are not particularly interested in casual scenes. I am assuming from your post, that you are seeking casual encounters, which leaves you at a disadvantage from the start, given the veracity of the above which suggest that LTRs are the way to go to increase your chances - though of course, these require time and commitment to develop. This leaves available, a small proportion who are open about their PD natures and willing to indulge this on a casual basis.

So, if we'd started with a 100 women, we might say that 20 had a PD nature, of which 2 say, were into casual scenes.

2) So, we have perhaps 2% of the female population who might just indulge submissive males on a casual basis. Say on some bizarre grounds that half of those would indulge you on casual basis for free because they enjoy it and arent too picky. That leaves 1% of the general female population, or 5% of all women who have a PD nature who might find their way into offering domination on a casual basis for free. Good luck with finding them. Meanwhile, there is another 1% who offer what youre looking for, in return for reimbursement of some kind - usually money, but not always. They are much easier to locate, since they advertise.

3) Now, you want something and someone else has it available. Welcome to marketing 101. If you want it, then the other person may make a charge for it and in general in life, the more demand there is, either by reason of many clients but more often because of shortage of supply, the person who has it available can charge a price which is comparatively high. If you can pull a woman off the street and get her to tie you up and spank you, good for you, but in general this isnt possible.

4) The charging policy is set by the person offering the sale in this particular market; it is a "seller's market". Like anything you'd like but cant afford easily, you might have to save up and buy it as a treat.

5) If you want sexual intercourse with a domina, then you are going to be disappointed I feel. Alternatively, why not go and find a prostitute, hand her a whip or something and get what you want that way? Also much cheaper.

6) The provision of a venue, equipment et al, not to mention the effort that is required to provide to someone you have little connection with, a satisfactory experience, is costly. The first items in terms of their purchase and acquisition, the latter in terms of personal drain. Its not money for nothing, dear boy - its demanding on the lady concerned. Feeling that all of this should be for free, or cheap is simply being unreasonable.

E




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/21/2007 2:56:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shamedmale
now your being really mature, what is it about some people that they cant even make one intelligent argument for their proposition or whatever it is they believe in, instead they reduce both themselves and their own argument by using insults
shamed
No one here is reducing himself except you for being immature, a big whining baby, and trying to play with adults outside of your league.
Solinear's comments make perfect sense.
quote:

Solinear
Call your mommy if you want comfort.  If you want to have someone perform BDSM activities on you and you can't get up off your ass to find someone willing to do that for free, then you need to pay someone.
   M




shamedmale -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 8:57:01 AM)

well i dont know what you would call this but i certainly think it is in the category of infantile for me
Call your mommy if you want comfort.  If you want to have someone perform BDSM activities on you and you can't get up off your ass to find someone willing to do that for free, then you need to pay someone.   M
And no, im not immature, I just happen to have an opinion, I happen to have the guts to express it and I dont care what any Domme thinks, I believe in my convictions and unfortunately there are not enough of people like me on this site, I believe there are many good Dommes out there, but equally I feel the more avaricious need to be exposed whether its by me or someone else it doesnt matter. Male subs have a voice too and no one should be allowed to ride rough shod over our opinions.  I respect your opinion but I happen not to agree with it
good day to you
shamed




shamedmale -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 9:01:07 AM)

in spite of all this I feel there is no justification to charge a sub $400 or $500 an hour. This to me is excessive. It equals greed to me. If you are not doing this and it sounds by your post that you are not a money grabber, then I applaud you.  There are many good Dommes on this site, there are also avaricious ones.
shamed




MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 9:57:02 AM)

I think you're getting caught up in the concept of the cost per hour = the prodomme only giving you back an hour of her time.

Not so.   You have to factor in cost of setting up a business, getting licenses, having a lawyer on retainer.   Cost of advertising, including professional photo sessions, keeping phone lines, etc.  Cost of getting a website designed, set up, maintained. Cost renting or buying a space in which to set up a dungeon.   Cost of setting up a dungeon with BDSM furniture and regular furniture.  Extensive cost of buying a wide variety of quality toys.   Extensive cost of setting up a professional wardrobe of fetish attire.  Time spent fielding phone calls from prospective clients.  Time wasted on no-shows.  Time spent setting up for your scene.  Time spent cleaning up after your scene.  No vaction pay, no health benefits, so that has to be paid out of pocket. 

But then, we both know you're just arguing for the sake of being argumentative.




shamedmale -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 10:08:09 AM)

you buy into all that when you become a Domme it goes with the territory , cribbing about all the external costs is like an engineer or builder complaining about the fact that he has to buy all these things, the fact of the matter most Dommes good luck to them are making a nice profit, some are making an extortionate, im not pointing to the finger at the honest Domme who wants to make a decent crust, im talking about the ones who would like to see their subs on the streets who are living in huge houses and leaving that aside, because thats not the point, who are incredibly greedy and avaricious and get off on breaking men financially. Thats my point,
regards
shamed




MistressSassy66 -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 10:24:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDoMe

It's not about money to me.  Are you sitting down?
I actually expect "service"!
Imagine that!  I actually expect a submissive that can
WORK.  Do things for me, fix things, etc.
It is a novel idea, but there are actually a few submissive
men that provide a real service.



Amen to that.
While I do often require a Tribute of some form...service can count as payment.
The reason I charge... There are few that actually want to serve just to serve.
They expect some kind of scene well it comes with a price.Just like any other service.
There are a few that I have collared who are truelly submissive,some of them give gifts,some work,some pay with money,some who have been here a lot have a do a 5 pay sessions the 6th one is free deal.

Bottom line is its between the Domme and the submissive...
And everyone else should mind their own business.

Why is it people are always looking for the something for nothing???
Before I went Pro I spent a lot of MY own money to begin with to set up a room for a dungeon.I dont think its much to ask for help from those who wish to session.
If it is then I dont think your looking for submission your looking to wank it.
Just MHO




demistress -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 10:24:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shamedmale
... who are incredibly greedy and avaricious and get off on breaking men financially. Thats my point,
regards
shamed


Shamed, these men, while their kink is repulsive and foreign to you, are giving their money CONSENSUALLY, they sign up for it, are you proposing to criminalize their choices?  For someone in BDSM this is a very close minded attitude.




Zensee -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 10:27:52 AM)

Hmmmm... Ten pages. Three months. One arrogant photo. Zero text in profile. One post in this thread. Zero OP responses. = One Troll.




MistressSassy66 -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 10:43:52 AM)

Trolls...That word makes Me think of those little dolls with the funky hair...LOL




MsVeruca -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 11:50:40 AM)

Here's my take.  MOST Dom/mes take part in D/s because they LOVE it, CRAVE it, and it is an innate part of WHO THEY ARE.  ProDom/mes are a reflection of the society in which we live, in that all things are possible RIGHT NOW, if you just pay enough money and know the right people. Now, I'm not saying ProDom/mes are to be judged, because while it's not something I would personally take part in, I think that they offer a doorway to D/s that is vital for many who are ignorant of how to approach a real D/s interaction but who want to experience it with all of their being. Honestly, I think that the problem here is that "womenrule" doesn't understand that women, PERIOD, don't need his money, and if he's meeting that kind of Domme, than perhaps he's not being selective enough in who he's spending time with. I've met many a youngster who believes that their car, clothes, and status will win my affections, and they get completely perplexed and pissed off when I walk away. if you throw out bait to catch a gold digger, that's what you're gonna get...




LadyEllen -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 1:28:54 PM)

Ok shamed – this is a post I was writing earlier in response to your justification post, but had to cut off because I had a virus alert (damned computer sleeping around again!)

Strangely, MsSonnetMarwood almost posted this same thing as I was writing at the time, but still!

This is how a pro-domme has to calculate her charge – she doesn’t pluck a figure from the air you see? In fact, you could use the same principle if you were say, a plumber or electrician.

We have to start with costs, such as (per week, UK)

Premises rental             150-00
Equipment depreciation            100-00 (based on 10k over 2 years, straight line)
(this includes equipment not necessarily to be used with clients, btw)
Internet connection                      10-00
Phones                                     100-00 (incl mobile)
Assistant (security)                      350-00 (incl National Insurance)
Electric                         50-00
Insurance                                  25-00 (equipment & premises cover)
Disposables                              25-00
Staff welfare                             50-00 (lunch, coffee, tea etc)
The Lady herself              450-00 (incl National Insurance)
Council Tax                              50-00 (if we’re doing it properly)

TOTAL                                    1360-00

So, the weekly cost is 1360-00. Add on 20% profit, makes 1635-00 per week we want to earn.

With simple thinking, then we’d say that in a 40 hour week, that’s only £41-00 per hour, and get excited as to why we’re being charged say £200-00 for an hour!

But, and this is the thing with consultancy of all kinds, and hotels too actually  – we can never assume that we shall have bookings for every hour of every day. So, we make an estimate of likely minimum bookings which will get us what we want.

By charging £200-00 per hour, we need have only 8 hours’ bookings in a week in order to achieve our overheads, and realise a small profit.

I hope this explains why things are the way they are shamed, and that you will now stop this misunderstanding rant at ladies who know how to organise a business and who are not ripping anyone off.

E




ToGiveDivine -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 1:55:36 PM)

Let's go at it from a Supply and Demand aspect.

If there are 200 women (let's eliminate physical attributes, they are all clones) in your area that cater to your particular interests, or even just the generic interests (i.e. CBT, spanking, foot worship, etc.), then the ones that charge less will get the business and the ones that charge more will be lonely.  There is a large supply for the demand.

Now, if there are only half a dozen women in your area that cater to your interests, or provide specialty service, such as toilet; then they can (and should) charge more as the supply is low for the same demand.

With that said, how many Women in your area cater to your interests?  Maybe a dozen or a few more?  All these women have fixed costs (as illustrated by LadyEllen above) and they intend to make a profit. (if you don't think they should make a profit, then there is the root of you problem - you aren't realistic).

There usually isn't a glut of Pro-Dommes as most FemDoms aren't interested in the hoop jumping they'd have to do for a bunch of strangers.  These Women don't provide a required staple; they provide a strictly luxury service.

The other option is to go into town and insult a women; maybe you'll get lucky and she'll give you a kick in the balls for free!  LOL





GuidingLite -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 2:39:36 PM)

This is the most stupid question  ever asked.  How could one person be all about just one thing?  Mistresses are all about money?  Well, so freaking what.  Who doesnt like money.  You mean you dont try to make money whenever you can?  More freaking power to them. 




MistressSassy66 -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 3:52:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

This is the most stupid question  ever asked.  How could one person be all about just one thing?  Mistresses are all about money?  Well, so freaking what.  Who doesnt like money.  You mean you dont try to make money whenever you can?  More freaking power to them. 


As a Pro I would like to thank you for your open mind attitude.

You ask a great question...how can one person be all about just one thing?
I dont have the answer,because I am about a whole lot of things.




Jaded2005 -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 4:13:07 PM)

Money
At one time, I would hope that, most men have paid to take a woman to dinner. Yes, I did say "paid to" not paid for. Now, you took her out and bought dinner for ...... Now, you "refined" yourself and know what you seek. So, skip the flower and candy, skip the drinks, skip the bottle of wine with dinner and skip the after dinner drink to 'loosen' her up even more. Do the math! 
As Cyndi Lauper once sang......'Money Changes Everything'




MistressSassy66 -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 4:27:25 PM)

I like a nice Chinese dinner.
I dont need to be wined,just fed is fine...LOL
Food helps get the energy flowing...and then I finish up the night with a session of bondage and what have you...  [sm=whap.gif] 

Edited to add Cyndi also did a song "Girls just wanna have fun" ...lol




Solinear -> RE: Why Mistresses are all just about money ! (1/22/2007 5:42:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shamedmale

And no, im not immature,


I never implied it, you inferred it.

quote:

I just happen to have an opinion, I happen to have the guts to express it


And this makes your opinion any more valid than everyone else's?  The fact remains that if you want something that you can't get for free, you have to pay for it.  It doesn't matter if it's food, shelter or a good spanking while you're tied to a rack (those are always cheap...).

quote:

I dont care what any Domme thinks


I guess it's a good thing that I'm a Dom.

quote:

I believe in my convictions and unfortunately there are not enough of people like me on this site


You're right, most people think that they should get paid for what they do.  If you don't want to pay for food, go buy some farmland and animals.  If you don't want to pay to get your computer fixed, learn to fix it yourself.  If you don't want to pay for a Domme, then go find a girlfriend that is willing to do those things.

quote:

I believe there are many good Dommes out there, but equally I feel the more avaricious need to be exposed whether its by me or someone else it doesnt matter.


I just don't understand how not getting paid equates to being good and getting paid equates to being bad.

quote:

Male subs have a voice too and no one should be allowed to ride rough shod over our opinions.


Money talks.... you know the rest.

quote:

I respect your opinion but I happen not to agree with it


The fact that you initially stated that I can't argue my point intelligently makes me infer that you really didn't agree with this statement.  You can think what you want to think, but when you start calling other people names and degrading the way they make their living, to me you simply cross a line.

I generally try to lead by example, not by shouting louder than others and more frequently.  I don't always succeed, but I try.




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