RE: The problem with pro femdoms (Full Version)

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zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 8:29:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
what we were discussing originally wasn't women that seduce men, it's women that charge them.


Shall we also discuss authors that charge for their books?   Surely if you were a Real Writer, and truly loved the craft of being a writer, you would not be so shamefully charging money to your readers?  [:D]

Now what was that you were calling pro dommes?  Two bit whores?  What, then, is an author who sells his creative erotic work?



your analogy fails. women that have their picture taken, for whatever purpose, be they sandra bullock or tara reid, are one thing. akin to them, writers selling their work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
So I take it we are to just be in awe and bask in the male's glory and go home.  He is not to expect us to care about him or desire him for sex.. interesting concept.  That's what you sort of make it sound like.. Please be more specific.  Give me an example of your "perfect date"  Where no one expects anything.


you take it the wrong way.

consider someone going to study philosophy. they start with their own fixed ideas and try to work what they read around that. they will never get anywhere, other than tired, frustrated and drained.

expectations are really the equivalent of fixed ideas. i never said don't have ideas, just don't have them beforehand.




zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 8:31:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare
Without going into the why, there simply are a lot more submissive men seeking the company of dominant women, which is no different than men seeking sex without love.  The role of dominant women, thus, is often turned into a 'supply/demand' interaction - there is nothing emotional about it, nor should there.  Many of the men who are seeking the services of a dominatrix are doing so to fulfill a fantasy that their lover or spouse will not, cannot, or (in their minds) should not.  This interaction may fall under the heading of BDSM, but it isn't even remotely related to the relationships that we tend to discuss, analyze, and tear apart on these forums.  Quite simply put, Domination Professionals relationships are no more similar to Ds than an escort is similar to a girlfriend.  The facade of lumping Professionals and their issues with those in committed relationships is pretty thin.


ditto.



WhipTheHip -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 8:38:07 PM)

> there simply are a lot more submissive men seeking the company of dominant women,
 
There are simply a lot more men seeking sex, then women seeking sex.  So there
are women willing to sell sex.  
 
The difference is this.  Some men get pleasure by giving pleasure.  If the
Pro Domme does not get any pleasure from what she is doing, these men
don't get what they crave, and are being cheated.  If most ProDommes
told the truth that all they care about is the money, they would have
no clientelle.



Najakcharmer -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 9:14:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
your analogy fails. women that have their picture taken, for whatever purpose, be they sandra bullock or tara reid, are one thing. akin to them, writers selling their work.


Exactly.  And a pro domme selling her work is different, how?  It's still a fair and honest exchange of one person's time, skill, creativity and energy for another person's money.  One is live and the other is Memorex, but the principle remains. 

I love the work I do (it's academic, not adult oriented), and I am quite dedicated to this field.  I certainly do expect to get paid, though it's also true that I also do a fair amount of pro bono and volunteer work.  It would be pretty ludicrous not to be paid for what I do, not to mention logistically impossible.  But it doesn't make me selfish or greedy or morally bankrupt to expect a salary for my skills.  It does make me a professional.  I genuinely enjoy using and sharing my skills and experience in this field, and getting paid to do it doesn't make me love it any less.

My primary career field has nothing to do with sex work, but when I did dabble in owning a dungeon, I felt the same way about that profession as I do about my mainstream one.  Any exchange of someone's money for my time and skills must be fair, honest, ethical and positive for everyone involved.  That is my basic work ethic. People tend to have a lot of negative knee-jerk moral judgements as soon as sex and sexuality enters the picture, and they don't always make logical sense. For me it doesn't matter which industry I'm working in, adult or academia.  The same on the job ethics still apply, and they work equally well in both places.



zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 9:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
I love the work I do (it's academic, not adult oriented), and I am quite dedicated to this field.  I certainly do expect to get paid, though it's also true that I also do a fair amount of pro bono and volunteer work.  It would be pretty ludicrous not to be paid for what I do, not to mention logistically impossible.  But it doesn't make me selfish or greedy or morally bankrupt to expect a salary for my skills.  It does make me a professional.  I genuinely enjoy using and sharing my skills and experience in this field, and getting paid to do it doesn't make me love it any less.

there are two elements that make a whore. not one, but two.

the first is pretending to be sexually interested in someone you are not.
the second is being paid for it.

now, your work, be it in the academia or in lolipop quality control, or whatever else it is you do for a salary, satisfies the second condition. you get paid. it does not satisfy the first condition. you don't pretend to be sexually interested in someone you are not.

if tomorrow your job description would change to include stripping for the dean's poker game, i dare imagine you would quit, and likely sue.

quote:


My primary career field has nothing to do with sex work, but when I did dabble in owning a dungeon, I felt the same way about that profession as I do about my mainstream one.  Any exchange of someone's money for my time and skills must be fair, honest, ethical and positive for everyone involved.  That is my basic work ethic. People tend to have a lot of negative knee-jerk moral judgements as soon as sex and sexuality enters the picture, and they don't always make logical sense. For me it doesn't matter which industry I'm working in, adult or academia.  The same on the job ethics still apply, and they work equally well in both places.


knee jerk anything is really not my thing. the distinction does make logical sense, and any ammount of hiding behind words (like "industry") won't help.

first off, selling sex is not an industry, for the whores. it's an industry for the pornographers, maybe, and possibly even for the high tech pimp, but untill they come up with the sex-line which the whore operates by use of levers and buttons, she's not part of an industry. at most industrially exploited.

now, i do not claim that being a whore is morally corrupting, or that it will necessarily blacken your eternal soul or condemn you to an eternity in burning brimstone. that's ridiculous.

in fact, im pretty sure there are ways you can get things worked out so as to maintain your sanity, and every other positive quality. you can call it work ethics or anything else, but it would at the minimum include some honesty.

and it wouldn't include claiming the sun moon and stars about "female supremacy" and blurting out half digested yet obsolete feminist quotes in an [pathetic and] desperate attempt to conceal what you're doing. especialy when what you're doing is jacking off some schmuck for a few bucks.



Sunshine119 -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 9:37:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

In the past, I ran a Dominatrix business.  I handpicked a half-dozen
Dommes.  I interviewed hundreds upon hundreds.   I placed want
ads in legitimate publications.  Very few had any interest in bdsm. 
Those who did have an interest, actually preferred to be subs and
bottoms in their real relationships. 


So let me get this straight.  You interviewed hundreds and hundreds of Dommes in order to run a Dominatrix business but very few had any interest in bdsm.  [sm=ugh.gif]


quote:

The vast majority would rather suck and fuck than whip a guy.   They
all just cared about money, and nothing else, unless they had a
drug or alcohol addiction.  They all had selfish, miserable personalities.  
A few were gay.


So....if you ran this service, basically you are now trying to tell us you were just a pimp?

quote:

The fact that Pro Dommes are only interested in torturing
men they care about, like and love speaks volumes.  If your main
interest was in causing pain and being a sadist, you wouldn't
care who the sub was.   If Dommes really got pleasure from
sexual sadism, it is my opinion they would rather inflict severe
unwanted pain on child molestors and sex offenders than
someone they really cared about. 


I thought the vast majority of these miserable women just wanted to suck and fuck for money or drugs?  Sadists, just in case you still haven't picked this up yet, like to inflict severe pain.  Why you think they would prefer sex offenders and child molesters is beyond me.

You've been a professional pimp, a rocket scientist, a lawyer (another post) a person trying to found his own church on peace and love, a computer expert, a carpentry expert, woodworking expert, and professional investor (all from your profile).  Let me just ask one question:  How long have you been suffering from delusions of grandeur?

 




Voltare -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 9:41:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> there simply are a lot more submissive men seeking the company of dominant women,

There are simply a lot more men seeking sex, then women seeking sex.  So there
are women willing to sell sex.  

The difference is this.  Some men get pleasure by giving pleasure.  If the
Pro Domme does not get any pleasure from what she is doing, these men
don't get what they crave, and are being cheated.  If most ProDommes
told the truth that all they care about is the money, they would have
no clientelle.


That there are more men seeking sex should go without saying, but surveys have shown that submissive males outnumber dominant females by roughly 4 to 1 (will be happy to dig sources if you like.)  This isn't because all submissive males are seeking sex-only relationships - especially if you consider the amount of competition, and the fact that often Dominant women do not engage in sexual relationships with submissive men... well, you get the picture.


Only a slightly more complicated aspect - ProDommes don't get paid to be pleased, they get paid to provide a fantasy.  Escorts and prostitutes generally do not enjoy sex with clients, but they aren't being paid to enjoy it - they're being paid to provide a fanatasy.  Either way, if the client isn't getting his money's worth, that's really his problem.  Considering the number of repeat customers professionals have, I would say that the fantasy is sufficiant enough to pay the Pro's rent.  And, of course, you used the correct term 'some' - a man who visits a Dominatrix might not always know what he's in store for, but he knows darn well that he's not going to be exchanging Franklins for love.  Like it or not, he knows up front that he is paying for a service.





WhipTheHip -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 10:04:11 PM)

> That there are more men seeking sex should go without saying,
> but surveys have shown that submissive males outnumber
> dominant females by roughly 4 to 1 (will be happy to dig sources if you like.)
 
Males seeking sex outnumber females who want sex 4-1.  What a coincidence.  
 



zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 10:05:24 PM)

the argument can be carried still.

not to be prescriptive as to what constitutes "proper" submissiveness, it can't be denied "giving pleasure" or "being of service" is a part of the puzzle. if the dom has no use for your effort, and no enjoyment out of it, that's i guess sad, or frustrating. but if the dom pretends to ... isn't this like going to a brothel only to find out the girls simulate sex from a yard's distance ?



Najakcharmer -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 10:05:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
there are two elements that make a whore. not one, but two.

the first is pretending to be sexually interested in someone you are not.
the second is being paid for it.


A good doctor does not necessarily love her patients and is not always personally or emotionally involved with their well being.  Since she is effectively "pretending to care" or at least giving care without actually caring and she is also charging money, is the doctor a whore? 

Sex doesn't change the dynamic.  In all aspects of our lives, professionals who give personal services from cooking your food to cutting your hair to giving you professional counselling are taking care of your personal needs for money.   Introducing sex brings in a ton of moral judgement baggage, but really doesn't change the fundamental transaction of personal caretaking - of  "pretending to care" - for money. 


quote:

now, your work, be it in the academia or in lolipop quality control, or whatever else it is you do for a salary, satisfies the second condition. you get paid. it does not satisfy the first condition. you don't pretend to be sexually interested in someone you are not.


No, but I do focus my time and energy on paid projects that I would not be pursuing on my own time.  In effect I do "pretend to be interested" in another person's needs and agenda in exchange for money.  Most people do this at some point if they work for a living.

quote:

if tomorrow your job description would change to include stripping for the dean's poker game, i dare imagine you would quit, and likely sue.


Poker games are not part of my job description.  Now if it was part of my job to arrange entertainment, I would arrange it as requested to the best of my ability.  I don't have negative moral judgements about adult entertainment, and the folks who want it are welcome to hire some from the folks who are marketing those skills.  I don't happen to be marketing those skills, but I'm sure I could network and find somebody who was.  Not a problem.



quote:

first off, selling sex is not an industry, for the whores. it's an industry for the pornographers, maybe, and possibly even for the high tech pimp, but untill they come up with the sex-line which the whore operates by use of levers and buttons, she's not part of an industry. at most industrially exploited.


I think you have a remarkably creepy and negatively judgemental view of women in the sex industry.  Yes, it is an industry, and in some areas women own significant chunks of it.  I won't deny that there *are* bad places where pimps beat up their drug addicted prostitutes, but there are also safe, fun, pleasant, woman-owned and operated places that are staffed by remarkably well educated and together ladies who like what they do.  I used to own one.  It was a genuinely nice place to be.


quote:

and it wouldn't include claiming the sun moon and stars about "female supremacy" and blurting out half digested yet obsolete feminist quotes in an [pathetic and] desperate attempt to conceal what you're doing. especialy when what you're doing is jacking off some schmuck for a few bucks.


My extended leather tribe/family includes people of all genders and D/s orientations, so any "supremacy" talk that insults and invalidates people I respect and care about does not sit well with me.  I am a dominant genderbent female who likes men to be submissive because I personally happen to be wired that way.  My buddy over there is a male dominant wired to love and master other men, and my other friend here is a heterosexual female submissive, and some more of my friends over there are transgendered.  We all respect each other and learn from each other, and it's a very sad waste of a community's resources to argue about who should be doing what and with which and to whom based on your genital configuration. 



zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 10:16:36 PM)

well, i don't see that there's actually any real disagreement we can discuss.

we can certainly refine definitions indefinitely, i suppose it's my turn to say now that it's not "pretending to care about what interests others" in general, but very specifically sexually, or at least erotically. i could further point out that your position claiming on one hand that "by necessity you do things you don't care about" contradicts the shitting butterlfies stand later on. in short, i suspect your upbeat outlook is firmly rooted in denial, but since it's all taking place over in your head, i lack the tools to show it, and the patience to build them, and even the venue, public and rough as it is seems inappropriate.

however a good doctor necessarily loves their patients, even if it's not terribly personal.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 10:41:47 PM)

Your post and thoughts are a wonderful springboard for submissives who seek to connect with female dominants, especially for those who are indeed open to learning what it is that works for us in terms of initiating contact, or establishing something outside of a professional relationship.
Unfortunately, most of the ones who desperately need to learn this wont read it, and the other ones will respond like they can't stand women in general, but especially all our godamned rules of engagement, lol.   M



WhipTheHip -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/29/2006 11:39:13 PM)

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119
> So let me get this straight.  You interviewed hundreds and hundreds of Dommes
> in order to run a Dominatrix business but very few had any interest in bdsm.  [sm=ugh.gif]

I interviewed hundreds and hundreds of women who wanted to work
as Pro-Dommes.

> So....if you ran this service, basically you are now trying to tell us you
> were just a pimp?
 
What pimp pays for want ads in legitement papers for legal activity,
hires women to work for him, then gives the women all the profits,
and allows them to beat him, if they want?  I hope your brain doesn't
always work this poorly.
 
> I thought the vast majority of these miserable women just wanted
> to suck and fuck for money or drugs? 
 
This is true.
 
> Sadists, just in case you still haven't picked this up yet, like to
> inflict severe pain.  Why you think they would prefer sex offenders
> and child molesters is beyond me.

 I hope your brain doesn't always work this poorly.
 
> You've been a professional pimp, a rocket scientist, a lawyer (another post)

Never said I was a pimp.  Never said I was a lawyer.  I hope your brain
doesn't always work this poorly.  

> a person trying to found his own church on peace and love,

Something like that.  

> a computer expert

I never made this claim.

> a carpentry expert, woodworking expert,

That would be the same thing twice.  I hope you know
a carpenter is a wood working expert.   I hope your brain
doesn't always work this poorly.  

> professional investor (all from your profile). 

True.

> Let me just ask one question:  How long have you been
> suffering from delusions of grandeur?

You want delusions of grandeur, I will give you delusions
of grandeur.   When I was a kid, I thought I would invent
a time machine, or at least succeed where Einstein failed
in unifying gravity with the other forces in physics.

I've sailed to the Bahamas many times on a 37' Tartan. I'm a
registered member of Mensa, and belong to other high IQ
groups with much stricter IQ requirements.  I graduated high school
top in a class of 500.  Over a dozen students from my graduating
class were accepted to Ivy League Schools or equivalent like
University of Michigan.  My high school was one of the top
high schools in the country.  It was rated up there with the Bronx
High School of Science.  We had our own planetarium. I still
remember a sign a fellow student from my German class put
on it: "Keepen zie cotton picken handz off die controlzen"
or something like that, only more witty.

I am also a nature photographer who pioneered the use of Hollywood
movie techniques in nature photography.   I managed a low rent hotel,
and a moderately priced hotel on the ocean.  I operated an A/C repair
business.  I have ADD.  I am in the process of patenting a half-dozen
inventions.

I took a second year college chemistry course, Inorganic Qualitative
Analysis, under Professor Hahn at Wayne State University the summer
following 9th grade, and took "Quant," the summer following 10th grade. 
I was the youngest player to show up at University of Michigan to play
Wff n' Proof.   Professor Layman created the game to teach propositional
calculus to his law students.  The instruction manual was a text book.  
It used to be advertised in Scientific American.   I read it in 9th grade for
fun.  So did another one of my classmates who was much smarter than 
me. 

I majored in mathematics and physics.   My parents were Detroit
socialites.  They had the longest divorce in the history of Michigan,
which caused my father to go broke.  I've lived in Romania, Thailand,
China, and Hong Kong.   I help the homeless, the mentally ill, and
those with substance abuse problems.  I studied in a seminary
for many years.  My first relationship was with two gay females.
One was a stripper.  I helped a failed commodities trader I met
in Mensa make his first million dollars trading S&P 500 futures.

I've played countless games of chess, but can't break a chess
rating of 1800 which is pretty bad.  For the most part, I have been
a failure in life.  All my high school teachers and university
professors thought I would leave a big mark on the world.  So
far my life has been one disaster after another.  I'm a big nerd
who has never had much success with women.  I've helped
a lot of people become very rich, but this hasn't helped me
much.

I made friends with a 10 foot alligator, and used to feed him out
of my hand.  Today is my birthday.  I am about to inherit a quarter
of a million dollars which is really nothing.  Next year I will use
a good portion of it to buy "calls" on companies that have a
lot of oil holdings.  I will do this on the supposition that Bush
will invade Iran sometime between July 2007 and July 2008 to
stop them from aquiring the atom bomb.   

My real delusion of grandeur comes from my belief that I
rediscovered Hugh Everett's MWs theory in the late 1980s
after popular writers had all ready written about it.  I don't
expect anyone to believe this far-fetched claim.   No matter
what happens in my life from this point onwards, it won't 
change the fact that I am a pathetic loser.  

Delusions of grandeur.  I always had them.  They just never
materialized.  And if they do now, it won't matter much.  I am
pretty much sick of people.  There is no one anymore I care
to impress.   All the people I have cared about are dead or
lost.   The rest of the people in the world are various shades
of you.  No offense, but I'd rather be dead than live in the
world with the kind of superficial people who inhabit it now.

It is is all delusions of grandeur.  I made it all up.  Don't
believe a word of it.  How foolish could anyone expect
others to be?  You nailed it on the head.  The nail that
stands out will be beaten down.  Everyone has got to
take a shot at that nail and pound it down like all the
other nails.  We can't have any outstanding nails.  You've
won.  You know the truth.  Silly me.  Shake your head
back and forth.   Who am I trying to kid?   Everybody
seems to know me better than I know myself.   Yes,
I just go about making things up to entertain people.

A famous priest went golfing alone in disguise on a
Sunday.   It was raining and the golf course was
deserted.  God said, I am going to teach this guy a
lesson.  He hit a hole-in-one the very first hole. 
Then he hit a hole-in-one on the second hole.  He
kepti hitting hole-in-one after hole-in-one. 



 




LaTigresse -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 7:29:14 AM)

Lord have mercy!! You must be Nigel Ray!!! I always knew that boy was a piece of work........



zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 8:16:56 AM)

hehe this thread is getting hilarious.



Najakcharmer -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 10:29:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
we can certainly refine definitions indefinitely, i suppose it's my turn to say now that it's not "pretending to care about what interests others" in general, but very specifically sexually, or at least erotically.


Aha, so it really does boil down to "but if it's SEX, it's just DIFFERENT."  

quote:

i could further point out that your position claiming on one hand that "by necessity you do things you don't care about" contradicts the shitting butterlfies stand later on. in short, i suspect your upbeat outlook is firmly rooted in denial, but since it's all taking place over in your head, i lack the tools to show it, and the patience to build them, and even the venue, public and rough as it is seems inappropriate.

however a good doctor necessarily loves their patients, even if it's not terribly personal.


In a pro session ten years ago or a different kind of professional caregiving situation today, my outlook is the same.  I am not always personally or emotionally involved with the client.  I do have a very strong sense of ethics and a general sense of caring that inspires me to want to give the best care possible.  

I agree that you don't have nearly adequate tools to diagnose or demonstrate anything that's going on in another person's head. I suggest you leave that to the professionals, who are no doubt shaking their heads at what you are revealing about yourself.  [8D]



zenofeller -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 10:37:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
Aha, so it really does boil down to "but if it's SEX, it's just DIFFERENT."  


certainly. you wouldn't propose there's no difference between getting a widescreen tv and getting a bf, would you ?

quote:

I agree that you don't have nearly adequate tools to diagnose or demonstrate anything that's going on in another person's head. I suggest you leave that to the professionals, who are no doubt shaking their heads at what you are revealing about yourself. 


hehehehe. professionals eh ? im pretty sure i got better tools than them].

now, should you feel like dropping the bullshit guard (namely, vague stuff about a strong sense of this or that, and overall hiding behind words that sound important) i'll be more than happy to show you exactly which part of your colon your head resides at. which was the meaning of my previous post, expressed delicately. a shade too delicately, i guess.



joyinslavery -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 10:40:25 AM)

For the love of god, could we please have a moratorium on Pro threads?

All in favor say "I". 




sapphirepleasure -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 11:40:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

The ethical pro domme is not just a sex worker, but a healer, a shaman, a priestess and a counsellor of sorts.  Part of the job is to model a healthy, happy acceptance of alternative sexuality and to send clients home feeling genuinely better about themselves and their sexuality.  


Najakcharmer, I've come to really admire you and your insight and very articulate way of expressing things.

I can so identify with what you said here--for the past five or six years, I've been a pro hypnodomme (www.ladytreesrealm.com is my site).  Although I've come to realize that on a personal level I crave serving, when I engage as a dominant, there is very much a spiritual component to what I do.  I am very selective about my clients and do most of my work by phone, but have occasionally met clients for in-person sessions.  It's very important to me that I do my 'work' with integrity and lead my clients to self-acceptance.  Some have struggled for years with shame over their hypnosis fetish and I am always happy when I can take them to places where they need to go and free them from the negative emotions that have surrounded their desires. 

I didn't read this thread until today so I'm very late in responding but I wanted to thank you for your comments that so deeply resonated with me.

Blessings,
sp



Najakcharmer -> RE: The problem with pro femdoms (9/30/2006 4:41:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenofeller
certainly. you wouldn't propose there's no difference between getting a widescreen tv and getting a bf, would you ?


Certainly.  One is a professional straightforward transaction of money for goods, and the other is a complex interpersonal relationship.  Now if you were comparing an hour's visit to a professional fitness/athletic counsellor with an hour's visit to a pro domme, that would be a much more reasonable comparison since both would be an exchange of money for time, skills, location and specialized equipment. 

quote:

now, should you feel like dropping the bullshit guard (namely, vague stuff about a strong sense of this or that, and overall hiding behind words that sound important) i'll be more than happy to show you exactly which part of your colon your head resides at.


Your personal issues are showing again. 

I'm sorry for whatever you've gone through to make you so hostile towards pro dommes in particular and women in general.  May I suggest consulting a professional to work on some of those hostile feelings?  Your choice as to which kind of professional you prefer.  [:D]

I'm being absolutely and bluntly honest about my personal experiences in owning a dungeon.  It's true that we had some pretty lofty goals, ethics and ideals for the business.  While I won't say we accomplished every one of those goals with every client in every session, we did manage to create a pretty amazing space for the ladies, for the clients and for the BDSM community. A lot of good things for a lot of people got accomplished in those years, and I'll always be proud of that even if I can't exactly put them on my current resume.  Community education and charity fundraisers were as important a part of our mission as the pro sessions that actually paid the rent. 

The hateful, hostile opinions of people like you mean very little compared to the gratitude I will always feel for the chance I had to make a positive difference in so many people's lives.  That much is real and deeply meaningful to me, and always will be.  Bitter, angry little men calling us whores on the Internet are just noise.  I am sorry that your past experiences were hurtful enough to leave you with that much anger towards women.  I hope that someday you will find enough healing and compassion to let go of that anger.  It can't be doing anything good in your life or your relationships.



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