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LadyEllen -> RE: Lib Dem Government by 2015 (10/2/2006 7:19:15 AM)
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NG - where I am really having difficulty with you then, is not that you disagree with the premise of simmering discontent between racial/religious groups in the UK, but that you ascribe this to comparative social deprivation and benefit? Let us then concede for the sake of this point, that such is the case, and that given equal social standing of everyone in every class, group or whatever, would make us one big happy family.
But there is a problem with this. Not everyone and not every group wishes to make the effort to achieve social standing and if it were given them on a plate, those whom we find today to be unable or unwilling to achieve social standing, would within a short time revert to a position of social deprivation by default. Like it or not, we live in a competitive world - even if we were to have equality forced on us by perfect communist principles, some would rise and some fall, because we all possess different quality and we all apply those qualities we have in different ways, and we all want to get as close to being top dog as we can manage. Given that only very few will be able to achieve superior standing even in a perfectly equal society, it is then inevitable that many will find themselves at comparative disadvantage.
I would also like to know why, when I had exactly the same background and educational opportunites as those with whom I started school - the socially deprived masses, but I applied myself and was successful, (to the extent that I was the only working class child in the highest grade class at my high school, and bullied throughout by the middle class kids for being poor whilst those from whom I am drawn bullied me for being an achiever), and have gone on to build a successful life with a decent living - why I should have to feel in any way guilty about it, or be forced to pay for those who failed to apply themselves to subsidise their lives through benefits? What incentive is there in that case, for me to work at all, to employ half a dozen people and raise ever greater tax liabilities wherewith to support those who couldnt have given a fxxk and still dont give a fxxk because someone else will pay their bills and feed their kids? No one, I mean no one, helped me to get where I am now, what I have I have worked for over the past twenty odd years - all the while paying tax to help those less fortunate.
Now as it happens, I feel social provision is the mark of a civilised society and dont actually mind paying towards it. What I strongly object to however, is the way that some people and some groups treat this safety net as their absolute right to milk for all its worth, whilst at the same time not doing a damned thing to get off benefits and into work and repaying via the tax system, that which they drew. Many of these people have never worked at all, many have no intention of working at all. Many of them will gladly take all the handouts, and not only fail to contribute but then indulge their susidized free time to engage in activities that undermine the very system from which they draw their living. This is simply not acceptable.
The undermining does not take place in any single group either - this is not about race or religion - it is widespread and takes myriad forms. But is does all partake of a single cultural idea across all groups - that the British establishment is some awful organisation which bears down on its people with unfair laws and restrictions which should be broken as some form of resistance against its tyranny. In all history though, I cannot think of a single tyrannical regime that pays people money to do nothing and provides them with every conceivable amenity and free healthcare and the opportunity however limited to have a say in how it exercises its powers and to comment thereon.
As for exploitation - yes, this is happening every day of the week, but its not the socially deprived and low paid who are being exploited, its those who applied themselves and have achieved a middle class standard of living. They are expected to shoulder a huge share of the burden of making society work - not only taxes, but keeping business and services in operation. They pay huge costs both financially and personally towards the cost of subsidising those who failed and continue to fail to apply themselves and achieve anything, whilst also being expected to keep the upper classes wealthy by working overlong hours in business. What a great reward for effort and achievement that is.
I repeat my "fascist" call, for some means of uniting this nation under common identity and values. If someone does not like the system, then change it or shut up or leave - its that simple. If someone doesnt think they ought to have to contribute anything whilst taking every thing they can get from the system, then change or leave - its that simple. If someone thinks that they're somehow exempt from the law because of some special difference they claim, then change the law or leave - really very simple. If someone thinks they require special treatment or consideration for this or that special reason, then forget it or leave. Nothing simpler. And that includes a lot of ethnic British people too.
The nation in my view is a collective undertaking for mutual benefit, protection and advancement. In fulfilling that purpose, it clearly requires organisation, which will inevitably mean a hierarchy in terms of who is best suited to making the whole thing work - which will mean some rise to the top and some will not, thats in the nature of any society. But it is not acceptable for a proportion of the nation to complain about their lot, when they have the means in their possession, (made available by the "oppressive" system about which they complain), to change their circumstances. And it is certainly not acceptable for a proportion of the nation to spend its time and effort in undermining the very system which supports them. You're either in this nation and working according to its principles, or you're not and should not expect any of the advantages which it provides.
What we need is some means of communicating this sort of idea to everyone, of refining it to something acceptable to the majority and then some means of ensuring adherence to it. This, after all the social upheavals and immigration of the past 50 years, will provide us with a blueprint for building the just, safe and tolerant society which we would all like, through producing the unity of being and purpose which this nation at present sadly lacks.
E
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