The history of mankind

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SirKenin -> The history of mankind (10/1/2006 12:26:55 AM)
I just started delving into a book called "The Arcana of Freemasonry" by Charles Woodward which was originally published in 1915. I do not know if any of you have ever read it, but it is quite the fascinating, albeit highly controversial, book. I do not know if any of you know anything about Freemasonry, but it is a secret society of wealthy, orthodox Christian men. At least that is how it started. The first Lodges were started in the early 1700's over in Portugal, England, Scotland, etc, and had a lot of royalty as members, including the Duke of Kent, Queen Victoria's father. Members of the sect were highly persecuted in the 1300's by the Pope and others. Anyways, the idea of this book is to challenge the Masonic way of thinking, which has origins based back to the original descendants of the first man in Africa, the Nylotic Negro, and some symbols even dating back to the Pygmy. Amongst the interesting points raised: The Chinese have writings dating from the 900's BC that they were doing trade with North America. That rather blows away the modern history book. Christianity appeared long before the Jews. In fact, it had references painted out in heiroglyphs and symbols in Egyptian tombs and pyramids (if you are interested, I can outline some of the facts behind the theory). He draws parallels between Egyptian beliefs and Christian beliefs through symbolism and suggests that the Egyptians were in fact worshipping the same God as the Jews. He also presents an ancient Egyptian drawing of a crucifiction, including the crown of thorns, the sword in the side, the whole deal. The Christian faith apparently, according to him, came from the Masai group, from Middle Africa, who came in and conquered Egypt. The first cult in Egypt that he makes mention of was the Stellar Cult, followed by the Solar Cult and the Christian Cult. The Solar Cult branched off and travelled the globe. North and South America, etc. He contends that this took place about 300,000 years ago. What he uses to back that up is that the standard of measurement in Egypt was the cubit, which Moses later took with him and it was sanctioned by God. The unit of measurement used to build the pyramids was the British inch. This is the same unit of measurement used to build the pyramids in South America. They are also built based on the same religious symbolism of the temple. He also makes reference to the fact that the earliest skeleton found at that point in time was 600,000 years old. Anyways, he says the inch is far more accurate than the meter, because the inch is based on the radius of the earth around the pole, the meter based on the circumferance around the equator, which he states is not round anyways. He suggests that the invasion of the meter is part of an attempt to destroy the Christian's faith and weights and measures. Interesting. I always knew those French were up to no good. The signs and symbols on the heiroglyphs demonstrate the Egyptians practicing Freemasonry in temples and they also depict many of the concepts presented in the Bible. He gives references, but for the sake of keeping this OP as least technical as possible I will save them in case you are interested in them later. The twelve thrones, or divisions of Heaven, in the Stellar Cult were brought over by the Israelites in the form of the twelve tribes of Israel. Both of these were based on the Zodiac. Just this stuff alone shakes the very foundations of our thinking. This book is fascinating and I have only read the first chapter. I would be curious to hear your thoughts.

NorthernGent -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 12:51:10 AM)
I do not know if any of you know anything about Freemasonry One of the key objectives of the freemasons was/is to protect each others' interests. There was a recent (about 10 years ago)inquiry into freemason links in the police force and they concluded that, in terms of promotion, police officers were being treated favourably according to freemason links.

SirKenin -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 1:00:10 AM)
Yes, that is why they are inducted into the Lodge and swear an oath to secrecy. An interesting fact. In ancient Egyptian times, the right of induction included being led around the temple wearing a veil to keep the inductee from seeing where he was going. He was led around a very specific path based on tradition and asked a series of questions. If the inductee wimped out, his throat was cut and his head cut off after his heart was ripped out. Eww. But yeah, considering the involvement of such powerful people it doesn't surprise me that anyone involved with Freemasonry would be treated favorably.

meatcleaver -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 1:17:14 AM)
Since the Vikings got to North America a 1,000 years ago and they knew from older stories of land being in that region, it doesn't surprise me the Chinese were trading at such a time. The skeletons of nine different human types, including European have been found in the Americas so it has been known for sometime that a single migration across the Bering straights was not how the Americas was populated. Since it is recorded that religions assimilate older religions it is no wild theory that originally Egyptians and Israelis worshiped the same god. Many of the stories in the bible were around previous to their apparent happening in the bible, many from the Indus vally. The tricky part is producing empirical evidence that many myths actually happened and for a chronological order to them. There are many facts about the ancient world that have yet to be answered. German mummies several thousand years old have been found with traces of nicotine in them which suggests trade with the Americas but we have no hard evidence. Roman paintings of pineapples. My memory fails me now but there are many of these tantelizing conundrums that suggest ancient people got around much more than we thought but empirical evidence is thin on the ground.

KatyLied -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 4:29:21 AM)
I don't know a lot about them, but I do know there is a group of them (The Shriners) who have hospitals that assist disabled and burned children, free of charge, including transportation for the kids and their families.

Arpig -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 7:05:03 AM)
Smiles sadly and shakes head....... quote: The first Lodges were started in the early 1700's quote: Members of the sect were highly persecuted in the 1300's by the Pope and others. quote: Yes, that is why they are inducted into the Lodge and swear an oath to secrecy. An interesting fact. In ancient Egyptian times Hmmmm...which is it? 1700's, early enough to be around to be persecuted in the 1300's, or were they around in ancient Egyptian times? It may interest you to know that the Freemasons themselves claim to have their origin in the masons who built the temple of Solomon, nothing to do with ancient Egypt really. quote: Anyways, he says the inch is far more accurate than the meter, because the inch is based on the radius of the earth around the pole, the meter based on the circumferance around the equator Interesting, but unfortunately untrue...the inch is based on the Roman uncia, which was literally 1/12th of a pes, or foot. The inch we use today was defined in the 14th century as being the length of 3 grains of barley laid end-to-end...hardly very precise. The metre was originally defined as 1/10,000,000 of the distance between the north pole and the equator, nothing to do with the circumfrence of the equator...by the way, 1 inch is 1/250,265,727.36 of the polar radius of the earth...hardly seems likely that somebody would define a unit of measure as a decimal fraction of the basis of the measure now does it? quote: The unit of measurement used to build the pyramids was the British inch I find this rather hard to believe, given that the great pyramid is not precisely measurable in terms of whole inchs....for example it was originally 481.4' tall...which is in fact 5776.8"...I doubt that it would have been ???.8" tall if the inch was the unit of measure used to build it. check all of its measurements, and you will find that not one of them is actually measurable in whole inchs, which really makes it doubtful that it was built with the inch as its basis. I would be interested in hearing how the hell the author determined what unit of measure was used to construct any ancient building. quote: They are also built based on the same religious symbolism of the temple. Completely and utterly untrue, and disproved so often as to make me amazed that anybody would be able to read this without chuckling and tossing the book aside. quote: The Chinese have writings dating from the 900's BC that they were doing trade with North America Untrue..the earliest dates for which the chinese have even fragmentary evidence for any contact with north america is some vague references from 499 AD ( a vague and imprecise reference to a visit to a land some 8000 nautical miles east of china)....a damn sight later than 900 BC!! Sorry SirK, but your book is full of an astounding amount of psuedo-science and just pure good old-fashioned bullshit, not uncommon back then, or today even....you know what they say, don't believe everything you read.

WhipTheHip -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 8:12:31 AM)
Freemasonry started in the middle-ages. They created myths about themselves like they were involved in building the temple of Soloman. Every signator of the Declaration of Independance save one was a Freemason. They had very enlightened views.

Mercnbeth -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 9:21:40 AM)
SirKenin, this slave was raised in a "Masonic" household--as in, every close male relative on both sides of this slaves family were Masons, their precepts were ones this slave's father taught us as ways to be good folk, their youth groups were the only ones this slave was allowed to participate in, and this slave was encouraged at 17 to marry into another heavily Masonic family...when the church this slave's father had belonged to for 25 years gained a youth pastor that insisted Masons worshipped the devil in secret and that this slaves father must leave (demit) from the Masonic Lodge or step down as an elder of the church and his voice would no longer be allowed to be heard in the church...he left the church. He died with a 50 year pin in his bureau and a Masonic funeral was the only one he wanted and received. all that being said and with all due respect, for the love of everything holy, if you genuinely want to know about Freemasonry, ASK ONE. ring up the secretary of your local lodge and tell him of your interest--they are a wealth of accurate information about their practices and principles. they also hold public ceremonies several times throughout the year that this slave is sure you would be welcome to attend. if you find you have an interest in joining the Brotherhood of Freemasonry, don't wait for an invitation because you won't get one--you have to ask (petition) to be a member, they never recruit. oh, and one more thing, your wife won't be allowed to join~they have other social groups for her to participate in, such as Eastern Star, etc. but the ladies aren't allowed into the "inner sanctum". here's a link to the local Lodge in your town: http://www.corinthianlodge.com/ and an excerpt from the site: As a fraternity, Freemasonry provides an opportunity for men to meet and enjoy friendly companionship. In the spirit of helpfulness and brotherly love and guided by strict moral principles, it encourages goodwill toward all mankind. Freemasonry is of a personal nature in its private ceremonies. Its ritual dramatizes a philosophy of life based on morality; it promotes self-improvement. The tools of operative masons are used to symbolize and teach the basic principles of brotherly love, charity and truth which Masons are encouraged to practice in their daily lives, Charity is tangible way in which Masons help those whose circumstances in like fairly warrant it.

Rule -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 9:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth a youth pastor that insisted Masons worshipped the devil in secret The pastor was correct.

cuddleheart50 -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 9:38:55 AM)
My dad is a Mason, and he does not worship the devil

Rule -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 9:51:56 AM)
Possibly he believes that he does not. Satan is the Lord of lies, though.

sissifytoserve -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 10:13:40 AM)
The real problem is ILLUMINIZED Freemasonry......dating back to Adam Weishaupt' Bavarian Illuminati secret society in 1776, (ironically the same date of the "Birth"of America.). In faact...Madame Blavatsky warned that this cult was penetrating itself into Freemasonry. People who are Blue Degrees are harmless.Theere is aabsolutely NOTHING wrong with common Freemasons. Its like a fraternety. But when you start getting into the 33rd degree and higher degress in Masonry..wether it be Scottish Rite, Royal Arch masonry, etc. There is where you have the people who are behind the conspiracy. Those people have been initiated into Illuminized freemasonry. Thosepeople tend to be either Luceferians or Sun Cult (AkkenAton) worshippers). Watch this documentary. Its quite facinating. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1299222488652468125&q=illuminati

sissifytoserve -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 11:27:35 AM)
The illuminati's tarnished Crown http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEPouzMnzQ Part two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUjNuwB_mn0&mode=related&search=

SirKenin -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 12:48:53 PM)
I find all this shit really fascinating. I am not willing to discard this book, because I believe that the author is entitled to his opinion and I want to find out what it is. I knew before reading it that parts of it would be innacurate, but amidst all the innacuracies there is a ring of truth.. He put forward the theory of mankind originating in Africa before excavations in the 70's (I believe that's when it was) actually proved it. Oh, about the history of the Freemasons: Perhaps I did not explain it properly. The first practices were recorded in Egypt. The first symbolism back to Africa. They did not build Lodges until the 1700's. They used to meet elsewhere, one recorded meeting was in a circle of 12 rocks surrounded by shrubs. The first Lodges popped up in the 1700's, but the Lodges were stormed by the authorities, the members thrown in prison or scattered to other countries where they started up another Lodge. It is not bullshit about the religious symbolism in Aztec temples being similar to Egyptian temples. I wish I had a way to reproduce the symbols. They have barely evolved from the symbolism used by the Nylotic Negro. Fortunately there are a lot of illustrations in the book reproducing the symbolism and the significance of squares, triangles, double crosses, etc. It is really neat. Arpig, let us say for argument's sake that you are right and his timeline is wrong with the Chinese. That still destroys the history the education is trying to cram down the American public's throat. I am comfortable believing that writing existed even earlier, though. I am also comfortable believing that all men are descendants of African tribes, including the Israelites. I have seen a documentary to this effect before. This is not the first time I have seen this theory put forward. A lot of facts support this. I do not know, but I find this stuff fascinating none the less, however accurate it might be. I am not sure I want to join a Masonic Lodge, though. This author's contention is that they have a lot of their facts and symbolism wrong and produces very compelling evidence that it is. Even the passwords they use are wrong. A fabrication he suggests. Mayhaps they is, mayhaps they ain't, but it is a cool book to read. When he released the book, he was scorned by Christians and Masons alike and pretty much held in contempt, that he could not possibly be a true Christian. However, when he died the Masonic Lodge issued a eulogy that he was a true Mason. Intewesting. I wonder, though, why they never stepped forward and responded to much of the questions that were put forward in his book, as it was written as a challenge directly to them.

Lordandmaster -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 2:18:13 PM)
Well, unless you believe the Gavin Menzies bullshit, there are no Chinese records of the New World until after the Jesuits arrived in China. There certainly are no Chinese records from 900 B.C. about trade with North America. quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: The Chinese have writings dating from the 900's BC that they were doing trade with North America Untrue..the earliest dates for which the chinese have even fragmentary evidence for any contact with north america is some vague references from 499 AD ( a vague and imprecise reference to a visit to a land some 8000 nautical miles east of china)....a damn sight later than 900 BC!!

KatyLied -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 2:38:29 PM)
What I'm curious about is any possible similarities between the Masons and the Knights of Columbus. They both have degrees of membership and women auxilliary groups (because they do not allow women to participate in the organizations). Thoughts? I think that Catholics are highly discouraged from becoming Masons.

SirKenin -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 2:48:13 PM)
They are... You have to be an Orthodox Christian to become a Mason, and that is probably why the Pope had them burned at the stake in the 1300's.

Mercnbeth -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 3:34:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin ...You have to be an Orthodox Christian to become a Mason... False. Nowhere in Masonic dogma is there a mandate such as this. quote: ...and that is probably why the Pope had them burned at the stake in the 1300's... False again. The Knights Templar was an organization sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church in 1128 to guard the road between Jerusalem and Acre, an important port city on the Mediterranean Sea. The Order of Knights Templar participated in the Crusades and earned a name for valor and heroism. They answered only to the Catholic Church and attracted the attention of powerful lords, who were interested in obtaining their wealth and power. In 1305, Philip the Fair, King of France, set about to obtain control of the Knights Templars. To prevent a rise in the power of the Church, and to increase his own wealth, Philip set out to take over the Knights. The year 1307 saw the beginning of the persecution of the Knights. Jacques DeMolay, along with hundreds of others, were seized and thrown into dungeons. For seven years, DeMolay and the Knights suffered torture and inhuman conditions. While the Knights did not end, Philip managed to force Pope Clement to condemn the Templars. Their wealth and property were confiscated and given to Philip's supporters.

SirKenin -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 7:10:46 PM)
Actually that is not true, beth. Pope Clement V issued a bull on April 2, 1314 following the execution of the Masons in France that was published May 2, 1312, abolishing Freemasonry altogether. In 1738 the Church of Rome was once again persecuting them under the authority of a Bull issued by Pope Clement XII on April 28, 1738. In May 1751 Pope Benoit XIV renewed the order. So as you can see the Masons did not have the support of the Roman Church at all.

Mercnbeth -> RE: The history of mankind (10/1/2006 9:50:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Actually that is not true, beth. Pope Clement V issued a bull on April 2, 1314 following the execution of the Masons in France that was published May 2, 1312, abolishing Freemasonry altogether. In 1738 the Church of Rome was once again persecuting them under the authority of a Bull issued by Pope Clement XII on April 28, 1738. In May 1751 Pope Benoit XIV renewed the order. So as you can see the Masons did not have the support of the Roman Church at all. actually, everything this slave stated IS true, SirKenin. this slave never said the catholic church supported the Masons. it is a fact of catholic history that they supported the Knight's Templar...and eventually turned their backs on them when King Phillip decided to take everything, even their lives, away from them. A Knight's Templar was not a Freemason. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor a substitute for religion. There is no separate 'Masonic god', and there is no separate proper name for a deity in Freemasonry. The main problem the catholic church has with the Order is that the Freemasons don't require a belief in "one, holy Roman Catholic Church"...a belief in a "Supreme Being"---as defined by the person petitioning the Lodge---suffices. A number of Papal pronouncements have been issued against Freemasonry, since the institution of the first Grand Lodge of England in 1717. The first was Pope Clement XII, April 1738; the last was Pope Leo XIII, October 1890. In 1983, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (who becamePope in 2005) as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued Quaesitum est. This states that "...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion" For its part, Freemasonry welcomes Roman Catholics as members. this slave is wellllllll aware that the feeling is not mutual and on that note, will be staying out of this thread from now on.

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