RE: Iraq: For Solutions only

RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 9:00:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx the Japanese started peace overtures in 1943 which the allies ignored. This was the Japanese plan for 'victory' all along. The Allies were quite right to ignore those overtures. It was not until after the second nuclear weapon was dropped that they would accept the unconditional surrender we demanded. In an (probably useless) attempt to bring this thread back towards the OP, the Japanese were guilty of the same error about the US we are seeing today in the ME, that being that the United States is too soft to endure savagery. Consider that being forced to island hop against a death-worshipping army of religious fanatics led us to first build flamethrowers and then the most horrific WMD's ever deployed. Is peace even possible when one side harbors such a critical misperception about the other? Appeasement is only a short-term band-aid, surrender unacceptable to both sides.

meatcleaver -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 10:08:44 AM)
To view today's conflict with WWII is not comparing like with like. With the sheer weight of their military power both technically and in numbers, one would expect the US to win any standing army but occupying land and maintaining a peace is another thing with an enemy that is so fluid and who doesn't seek to hold and maintain occupied of land. Also in WWII, government controled state media and were the sole dispensers of propaganda. Today, the truth of a conflict can't be hidden or smoothed over which was one of the problems the US had in Vietnam.

NorthernGent -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 10:22:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Oh fuck! I agree with you NG. Hey, it's a strange, old world, MC. You know what you are now for agreeing with me don't you...................a communist! Red Cleaver.

NorthernGent -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 10:27:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver To view today's conflict with WWII is not comparing like with like. With the sheer weight of their military power both technically and in numbers, one would expect the US to win any standing army but occupying land and maintaining a peace is another thing with an enemy that is so fluid and who doesn't seek to hold and maintain occupied of land. Also in WWII, government controled state media and were the sole dispensers of propaganda. Today, the truth of a conflict can't be hidden or smoothed over which was one of the problems the US had in Vietnam. Worthy of returning the favour and saying spot on. In 50 years we have made great strides in terms of education of the masses and information available. We really should not be falling for the tired old lines of "fighting for freedom" in this day and age.

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 10:41:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent We really should not be falling for the tired old lines of "fighting for freedom" in this day and age. Spoken like someone who takes the concepts of individual liberty and free expression for granted.

NorthernGent -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 10:43:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent We really should not be falling for the tired old lines of "fighting for freedom" in this day and age. Spoken like someone who takes the concepts of individual liberty and free expression for granted. You know Wyrd, that is such a ridiculous comment. Explain yourself. Why do you think you value freedom more than I do?

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 11:55:21 AM)
Fighting for freedom is a "tired old line?" What conclusion should be drawn from such a statement?

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:12:47 PM)
NEWSWEEK Poll: GOP in Meltdown - Newsweek Politics - MSNBC.comFor the first time since 2001, the NEWSWEEK poll shows that more Americans trust the Democrats than the GOP on moral values and the war on terror. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15167150/site/newsweek/

meatcleaver -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:26:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent We really should not be falling for the tired old lines of "fighting for freedom" in this day and age. Spoken like someone who takes the concepts of individual liberty and free expression for granted. Freedom and liberty are put more in danger by believing the lies our politicians feed us than from any outside force. In that respect, I agree with NG, if I'm not misintepreting him that is.

sissifytoserve -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:30:38 PM)
Fighting for Freedom? Yeah right. If you actually still believe this.....you have been perfectly indoctrinated. We are LOSING our freedoms back at home.....just in case you haven't noticed.

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve Fighting for Freedom? Yeah right. If you actually still believe this.....you have been perfectly indoctrinated. We are LOSING our freedoms back at home.....just in case you haven't noticed. Fighting for profis not freedom Mark Fiore: Behold the Bounty of War Profiteering! http://villagevoice.com/news/0641,fiore,74658,9.html

Sinergy -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I think I mentioned that Hitler, like Napoleon, went to Russia in the winter without his longjohns. I think I mentioned also that the Russians stretched out Hitlers supply line to over 500 miles(which cost land and blood). Hitler attacked Russia in late june of 41 and Stalin realized that he needed to keep the Germans from getting to Moscow before winter so he made the decission to sacrifice thousands of lives to save millions (Stalin was never known for his sensitive heart) I thought June was mid summer in the northern hemisphere. Learn something new every day. The Russians pulled back and used the same scorched earth policy (burning everything behind them) that helped defeat Napoleon, and let winter do the rest. The other thing the Russians did was develop a tank (T-34) which was the most easily produced and effective tank (for it's time) ever produced by anybody, anywhere. I find your statement about Hitler not being incompetent was rather odd. He had some of the best generals in the world at the time, but he refused to listen to their counsel and invaded Russia anyway. Weird, we have a President that is not listening to his generals and sending his military in to fight idiotic and suicidal conflicts. This is one definition of incompetence: Hiring brains and skill and then refusing to listen to the people that actually know what they are saying. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

DominateAndre -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 12:41:11 PM)
What are you babbling about "profits of war?"

NorthernGent -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 1:32:06 PM)
Wyrd, you tell me because without a full explanation you're not making a great deal of sense.

WyrdRich -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 1:44:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Wyrd, you tell me because without a full explanation you're not making a great deal of sense. I'm not sure what you are expecting here, North. Your statement seemed to clearly imply that you do not think Freedom is worth fighting for. Please explain how I should have interpreted your post.

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 2:16:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominateAndre What are you babbling about "profits of war?" I think you know because it's obvious, but in case you really don't know, what I mean is that Bush and his corporate friends like Cheney and Halliburton and that whole crowd are stuffing their faces or should I say wallets with money. It is absolutely disgusting how they are ripping off the American people paying obscene amounts of money to corporations like Halliburton for this war.

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 2:30:26 PM)
Halliburton -- Poster Child For War Profiteering by Evelyn J. Pringle www.dissidentvoice.org January 24, 2005 Of course, by now everybody has at least heard of Halliburton, the all-time poster child for war profiteering. But I'll bet most people don't understand exactly how this company has gone the full financial circle in Iraq. Some background info may be helpful. First of all it helps to know that between 1999 and 2002, Halliburton gave more than $700,000 in political contributions, almost always to Republicans. In 2000, it donated $17,677 to Bush. In fact, the 70 or so companies that were awarded contracts in Iraq have contributed more money to Bush than they have to any other candidate over the past 12 years. For its services in Somalia, Halliburton was paid $109 million and over the next five years; it was paid $2.2 billion for work in the Balkans. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Pringle0124.htm

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 2:35:20 PM)
Despite over eight months of work and billions of dollars spent, key pieces of Iraq's infrastructure - power plants, telephone exchanges, and sewage and sanitation systems - have either not been repaired, or have been fixed so poorly that they don't function. San Francisco-based Bechtel has been given tens of millions to repair Iraq's schools. Yet many haven't been touched, and several schools that Bechtel claims to have repaired are in shambles. One 'repaired' school was overflowing with unflushed sewage; a teacher at the school also reported that 'the American contractors took away our Japanese fans and replaced them with Syrian fans that don't work' - billing the U.S. government for the work. Inflated overhead costs and a byzantine maze of sub-contracts have left little money for the everyday workers carrying out projects. In one contract for police operations, Iraqi guards received only 10% of the money allotted for their salaries; Indian cooks for Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root reported making just three dollars a day. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=War_profiteering

bills944 -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 4:37:27 PM)
"profits of war?" Halliburton Fraud Lawsuit Details Super Bowl Party By T. Christian Miller, Times Staff Writer September 9, 2006 WASHINGTON — Halliburton Co. executives ordered a big-screen television and 10 large tubs of tacos, chicken wings and cheese sticks delivered to Iraq for last year's Super Bowl, then billed U.S. taxpayers for their party, according to a lawsuit unsealed Friday. The Houston-based company also defrauded the government by double- and triple-billing for Internet, food and gym services for soldiers, according to the lawsuit by a former employee for KBR, the Halliburton subsidiary that runs dining halls for troops in Iraq. "The administration is not enforcing the laws against fraud when it comes to contractors in Iraq," said Alan Grayson, the attorney who filed the suit. "When it comes to seeing that the law is executed, the Bush administration is a no-show." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-halliburton9sep09,0,5667570.story?coll=la-home-world more Halliburton Fraud YouTube - President Bill Clinton On The Daily Show (Part 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkLyTG-ranc&NR 3) Iraq contracts: Criminal investigations and rampant waste, fraud and abuse http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/news/guide.htm

Sinergy -> RE: Iraq: For Solutions only (10/7/2006 4:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver To view today's conflict with WWII is not comparing like with like. With the sheer weight of their military power both technically and in numbers, one would expect the US to win any standing army but occupying land and maintaining a peace is another thing with an enemy that is so fluid and who doesn't seek to hold and maintain occupied of land. Also in WWII, government controled state media and were the sole dispensers of propaganda. Today, the truth of a conflict can't be hidden or smoothed over which was one of the problems the US had in Vietnam. Exactly. Look how well the Germans did facing the French Resistance. Wait, umm. The days of warfare being a lethal version of capture the flag ended in World War One. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

Page: << < prev 10 11 [12] 13 14 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

4.711914E-02