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RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:33:43 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		OHMIGOD!  I mean...  this is a TERRIFIC idea, of course, but my dear!  The very LAST THING that our government wants to see is a united Arab front!!!  Indeed, we have been taking great pains for years to make sure that never, ever could happen. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It seems like a problem we at least partially if not totally created. It also seems illogical to just leave a void. Like him or not, Saddam did represent stability of a kind.
 
An American/British funded peace keeping force would be an option. I think the first choice would be a coalition of Arab states. There is potential that a more moderate administration could accomplish this. Next choice would be the United Nations. Probably a big "fat chance" on that one. A NATO coalition would be the last and worst option, and a very hard sell to both sides.
 
I have no idea if these are good ideas.


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:34:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Agreed.  I think the entire country should have risen up to STOP this invasion before it happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich
I've said some nasty things about the intelligence of presenting a divided front before the war ever started



I was on the phone with my senators demanding they not sign on to the Iraq resolution, and I have been in the streets marching also. I have had a few death threats myself.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:37:05 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		However, the will of the people can be manipulated... that's how Bush got the support to invade Iraq in the first place.

As for manpower, we don't have the manpower either to attack either Iran or Korea, but I sure see a lot of posturing going on to suggest that's next on the agenda.   There isn't much I would put past this Administration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

From a cold hearted, we don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks, I believe the United States has the military might to pull it off. 


Well I think you are wrong, we do not have the will of the American people behind such an endeavor, and we do not have the manpower for it either. That is the cold hard facts of the matter. 



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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:39:26 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		I also sent faxes to every representative in the UN Security Council as well, trying to get them to bring pressure to bear on Bush.... they just stood by and watched.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Agreed.  I think the entire country should have risen up to STOP this invasion before it happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich
I've said some nasty things about the intelligence of presenting a divided front before the war ever started



I was on the phone with my senators demanding they not sign on to the Iraq resolution, and I have been in the streets marching also. I have had a few death threats myself.


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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:41:09 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I wish I had something good to report. She has partial blockage in her vertebral artery, which is in a place that can't be corrected with surgery because of where they are located. The blood thinner will help, but puts some limits on life in general. She still has serious dizziness issues. Joan is a lawyer, and a very active person. I don't know if the doctors are intentionally painting a dark picture ( I know next to nothing about things, medical), but in our conversations yesterday, they were already talking about some pretty serious life changes.
 
Sorry all, for the hijack ... and thanks for the kind thoughts julia.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:41:50 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		They would have to reinstitute the Draft.  Methinks it is suddenly going to be VERY crowded on the Seychelles Islands.  My daughter already has a passport, and I've put aside money for her ticket and opened a PayPal account for her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Well I think you are wrong, we do not have the will of the American people behind such an endeavor, and we do not have the manpower for it either. That is the cold hard facts of the matter. 



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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:44:37 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I know this thread was not suppose to degenerate to this, but for those of us who saw the future so to speak, it does come back to "we told you so", because we are now expected to come up with the idea on how to put the milk back into the cow...and through the udder. It was why I was so adament about this being a mistake... like Colin Powell told Bush... the pottery barn rule.. you break it, you buy it... no matter how broken it is, they just seem determined to break it worse

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:45:59 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		Well, yeah, but first you have to assume that they CARE in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I know this thread was not suppose to degenerate to this, but for those of us who saw the future so to speak, it does come back to "we told you so", because we are now expected to come up with the idea on how to put the milk back into the cow...and through the udder. It was why I was so adament about this being a mistake... like Colin Powell told Bush... the pottery barn rule.. you break it, you buy it... no matter how broken it is, they just seem determined to break it worse


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 6:49:34 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Agreed.  I think the entire country should have risen up to STOP this invasion before it happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich
I've said some nasty things about the intelligence of presenting a divided front before the war ever started



I was on the phone with my senators demanding they not sign on to the Iraq resolution, and I have been in the streets marching also. I have had a few death threats myself.


     It's a long stretch between thinking a person is being dumb and threatening them.  As far as I'm concerned, Freedom of Stupidity is clearly implied by the First Amendment (NOT directed to any specific person).  Speaking our minds is one of those things I'll load up with buckshot to keep intact.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 7:01:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Obviously not everyone feels that way.

I am involved with the local peace movement within my community. Some of their members were in Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911. Our group was infiltrated by the local terrorism task force. I was actually followed. Here I am, law abiding citizen, peaceful person, exercising my freedom of association and thought, and that seems fairly threatening to the powers that be. I have also had emailed death threats.

I guess this is why I take the word enemy combatant so seriously. When will Bush (or another like him) call me an enemy combatant because my opinions are so threatening? If you had been subjected to this sort of harassment you might also be somewhat sensitive to this too.

You may think my views wrong headed, that is ok with me Rich, but where has your side gotten us? We are in deep doo doo, and yet you still think "my side is right".  They have really goofed up, and screwed this occupation up every way possible, and yet, you still say people against the war were stupid? (and yes you inferred this even though you did not say it).

I just shake my head, people like me shook our heads all through Vietnam, while the weapons contractors and the military men wanted to up the anti in that conflict too. You know who always pays for the wars? Good decent people always pay the price while those who profit from it sacrifice a big fat zero. Women, children and the elderly are the ones who lose their life because they cannot look out for themselves as welll, or get out of the way fast enough, the middle class send their kids and their tax dollar to fight it... the people who own stock in the oil companies, the weapons contractors, and mercenary companies make the dough

ok.,.. rant done.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/1/2006 7:03:48 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 7:24:43 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I guess this is why I take the word enemy combatant so seriously. When will Bush (or another like him) call me an enemy combatant because my opinions are so threatening? If you had been subjected to this sort of harassment you might also be somewhat sensitive to this too. 

       It was called COINTELPRO, and yes, the FBI was playing dirty enough that I was feeling it at a highly unmentionable age.  It is why I am so adamant in my attitudes toward free expression.  Believe me when I say that casting my vote to the party of Nixon was quite a shock.  My family was harassed, wiretapped, denied benefits, employers were intimidated, neighbors and teachers questioned.  And yet the door was never broken down in the night.

you still say people against the war were stupid? (and yes you inferred this even though you did not say it).

      Yes.  I did a thread on the subject a few weeks back (Did the Left start the war in Iraq?)  Briefly stated, I think the pre-war protest removed what slim hopes there might have been for a negotiated resolution.  Sometimes smart people do the dumbest things.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 7:31:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I never marched until we had been in Iraq for 6 months....but I knew we were going to go before we did, and I tried to exert pressure on politicians in my state, and nationwide for that matter

Have you heard of PNAC?

My parents were wiretapped and mail was opened up  when they went to antiwar meetings and wore pins against the war.. and they became active in the movement because my uncle was there... I know about cointel ops ..

On edit, that was during Vietnam

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 7:53:14 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I never marched until we had been in Iraq for 6 months....but I knew we were going to go before we did, and I tried to exert pressure on politicians in my state, and nationwide for that matter

Have you heard of PNAC?

My parents were wiretapped and mail was opened up  when they went to antiwar meetings and wore pins against the war.. and they became active in the movement because my uncle was there... I know about cointel ops ..

On edit, that was during Vietnam


     Try having your step-father classified as "politically undesirable" for the draft.  Not a great time.

     On the upside, if you want to discuss Marxist Theory with me, you better know your shit really well, and be ready for some completely independent reasoning on why Communism sucks.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 7:55:36 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Load them onto personnel carriers and set the auto-pilot on "USA."

Problem solved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

This one is just for ideas about how we can safely get our guys the hell out of there.

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:05:18 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

First we do no further harm.

We just up and leave.

The oil belongs to Iraq and doesn't need our "help" I think.


Copy Chaingang. Next we pass /enact a law prohibiting us from purchasing any oil or getting involved in any conflicts outside of the geography stipulated in the Monroe doctrine.

The other thing I'd say…  we make no exceptions and create strict penalties { 50 year prison terms } for any and all part of a corporate hierarchy that would engage in ANY type of technology transfer to another country that could be used for weapons manufacturing / military purposes - And that includes Israel



 - R




_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:11:00 PM   
bills944


Posts: 122
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Bob Woodward said on 60 minutes when interviewed by Mike Wallace that George Bush said he would not leave Iraq even if the only people supporting him were Laura Bush and Barney his dog.  So, it's really a waste of time talking about it because he doesn't care what we the people think, he's wants to stay there.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:13:02 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		no surprise there.  Megalomaniac R bUSh

quote:

ORIGINAL: bills944

Bob Woodward said on 60 minutes when interviewed by Mike Wallace that George Bush said he would not leave Iraq even if the only people supporting him were Laura Bush and Barney his dog.  So, it's really a waste of time talking about it because he doesn't care what we the people think, he's wants to stay there.


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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:15:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bills944

Bob Woodward said on 60 minutes when interviewed by Mike Wallace that George Bush said he would not leave Iraq even if the only people supporting him were Laura Bush and Barney his dog.  So, it's really a waste of time talking about it because he doesn't care what we the people think, he's wants to stay there.


He will not be president forever


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to bills944)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:32:16 PM   
WyrdRich


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Joined: 1/3/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
He will not be president forever



     Amen. 

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Iraq: For Solutions only - 10/1/2006 8:33:22 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
He will not be president forever


Unfortunately, someone like him will be President. Gloomy I know, but look at the mood, even on this message board. People just can't be civil. Right here on this board there is a segment that seems to think they can see into the heart and soul of anyone that doesn't agree with them. They exist on both sides.
 
We aren't going to have an election based on issues. We aren't going to have an election based on civil debate. We are going to have an election based on shit talking, trashing others and calling people names. We are going to have an election where both sides call the other side stupid. We are going to have an election based on lies and innuendo.
 
We will not be electing someone for which much can be said. We will be electing someone for which little can be objected.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 10/1/2006 8:34:33 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 60
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