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Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 9:54:04 AM   
Silvermoon


Posts: 156
Joined: 11/24/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings all! I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

I just wanted to post briefly on something that caught my attention and actually I found rather offending. It's not easy to offend me so I thought perhaps I'd post and read other's opinions.

I logged into my profile, and as we all get, there's always someone's profile at the top on login. In this profile the first journal entry was the following-

8/27/2006 11:25:56 AM: I am quite impressed with the quality of the subs on this website. Kudos go out to the Doms/Dommes who have trained them in the past.

This really irked me. I admit I am being over-sensitive on this. But I feel as tho this seriously lessens all the hard work submissives do INDEPENDANTLY, and gives Dominants all the credit. As though a 'good' submissive is only such through the hard work of a Dominant rather than the soul-deep journey taken of one's own accord. Some 'good' submissives may never have had 'training'. And no training in the world could turn a 'bad' sub, into a 'good' one. Only she/he can do that.

It also seems to promote the idea that a submissive is nothing without a Dominant.

Could it be it had nothing at all to do with Dominants?


Sincerely,
Silver


_____________________________

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"In Manus Tuas Commendo Spiritum Moum"-Into Your Hands I Entrust My Spirit

"A man's word is his honor, his honor is his worth; Therefore a man who can not keep his word, is worthless"-Self Quote
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 9:59:51 AM   
Miseri


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I agree, although reading it probably wouldn't have upset me.

The sub has to be completely willing and desirous of being pleasing to the one they are serving. Simple as that. Really what the dominant brings to the table is further training of how to particularly please HIM (or her). They are merely challening the desire that already exists. An eager to please submissive will always be treasured...regardless of training.

I'm not a perfect sub, but I want to strive to be for my Master. A perfect example: He said, "I want to you to obey me not because you fear punishment but because I want you to."...and that statement turned me on and warmed me emotionally. It's because I have the need to please him.

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 10:21:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Well it is his worldview. He is the one that has to live with it, and if a submissive is ok with that and wants to be his, well that works for them.

I am not offended. He may have been responding to a few profiles that specified they had been trained in XYZ sort of service or something. Perhaps is his view he wants a submissive that is not a novice, so he was commenting on the many submissives here that are not novices or "wannabes"

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 10:37:46 AM   
petcerina


Posts: 143
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline 		This quote doesn't rub me the wrong way at all.  i will say that it takes a lot of work on the submissives part to be willing to be trained and to work on improving themselves even without someone to guide them.  But every time i'm complimented on how well i submit, i think of it as a compliment to Master.  Yes, i have done a lot of self discovery, but Master helped me along the way.  Also, i believe that i am incomplete without Master.  So while the idea of me being "nothing" seems a bit of an exaggeration, i've come a lot farther being under His direction than i ever could have on my own.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 10:56:10 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

Greetings all! I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

I just wanted to post briefly on something that caught my attention and actually I found rather offending. It's not easy to offend me so I thought perhaps I'd post and read other's opinions.

I logged into my profile, and as we all get, there's always someone's profile at the top on login. In this profile the first journal entry was the following-

8/27/2006 11:25:56 AM: I am quite impressed with the quality of the subs on this website. Kudos go out to the Doms/Dommes who have trained them in the past.

This really irked me. I admit I am being over-sensitive on this. But I feel as tho this seriously lessens all the hard work submissives do INDEPENDANTLY, and gives Dominants all the credit. As though a 'good' submissive is only such through the hard work of a Dominant rather than the soul-deep journey taken of one's own accord. Some 'good' submissives may never have had 'training'. And no training in the world could turn a 'bad' sub, into a 'good' one. Only she/he can do that.

It also seems to promote the idea that a submissive is nothing without a Dominant.

Could it be it had nothing at all to do with Dominants?


Sincerely,
Silver



It doesn't rub the wrong way but I can see how it can. I've never been trained and I have no desire to be "trained" nor does my dominant wish to have me trained. Everything I know about this lifestyle I have learned myself and really I've taught my dominant just about everything he knows. It is just as possible (and probably common) for a submissive to "train" or teach a dominant as it the other way around. After all... how many times have we submissives found a great guy and been in great relationship and we just had to open the door for them to BDSM?

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 11:40:46 AM   
maudite


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline 		I agree with AquaticSub -- I'm not actively offended, but it does rub me the wrong way. I don't submit because I want or need 'training' -- I do it because I enjoy it. And no dom has ever made any attempt to 'train' me -- there are an awful lot of things you can do in a D/S relationship without ever even touching on 'training'.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 11:57:26 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		It does not offend me, but reading it with no other context my first reaction was just another cyber Dom who when logging in goes into there own little world of what this life is, and submissive's are lower beings that need strong people to guide them type thoughts.

Gross generalizations/credits are just not good. My owners have all had a large part of how I have lived and become when active in this life but I also get credit for me as well. Just like my parents deserve credit for who I am and have become but not all the credit. I am the sum of all the parts in my life. The good and the bad.

< Message edited by toservez -- 10/2/2006 12:36:29 PM >

(in reply to maudite)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 12:12:54 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I certainly wouldnt be offended by what a stranger believes.  But I definately do not agree with him/her on this.

I am probably in the minority when I say I don't think being submissive has anything to do with working on myself or someone else 'training' me how to be a good sub/slave/servant, whathaveyou.

For me, its about chemistry.  Without someone to be submissive to,  Im just marie.  Therefore,  I cant say I became a wonderful submissive because someone taught me in the past, or because I've somehow done some type of 'work' on myself.  Im "good" as a submissive when Im with someone with whom the chemistry between us causes me to defer.  So I really cannot wrap my mind around that person's statement.  But maybe others can.  Maybe some feel that they were taught or trained or conditioned into behaving more outwardly submissive to the world at large.  I dont know.  I think for some, it could apply.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 12:22:47 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline 		Had I read it, I would have just been delighted to see someone with a profile that doesnt claim everyone else is a player, phony or wannabe..

I might have even thanked him for having something so different.. LOL

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 12:39:28 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I certainly wouldnt be offended by what a stranger believes.  But I definately do not agree with him/her on this.

I am probably in the minority when I say I don't think being submissive has anything to do with working on myself or someone else 'training' me how to be a good sub/slave/servant, whathaveyou.

For me, its about chemistry.  Without someone to be submissive to,  Im just marie.  Therefore,  I cant say I became a wonderful submissive because someone taught me in the past, or because I've somehow done some type of 'work' on myself.  Im "good" as a submissive when Im with someone with whom the chemistry between us causes me to defer.  So I really cannot wrap my mind around that person's statement.  But maybe others can.  Maybe some feel that they were taught or trained or conditioned into behaving more outwardly submissive to the world at large.  I dont know.  I think for some, it could apply.


I wouldn't say you are in the minority. I would say there are more of us like this then some masters and slaves would like to believe. If I'm not with the right man/woman then I won't submit. Either because I don't feel they deserve or have earned that gift or they just don't have what it takes to both dominate and respect me.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 12:47:18 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Well, in my opinion, it was written by a clueless person. First, for just your point and second, have they READ most of the profiles? Well trained subs/slaves, be they self developed or helped along, are few and far between here, in my opinion. Fortunately, we DO have them, but most are in a fantasy world.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 12:57:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I am probably in the minority when I say I don't think being submissive has anything to do with working on myself or someone else 'training' me how to be a good sub/slave/servant, whathaveyou.

For me, its about chemistry.  Without someone to be submissive to,  Im just marie.  Therefore,  I cant say I became a wonderful submissive because someone taught me in the past, or because I've somehow done some type of 'work' on myself.  Im "good" as a submissive when Im with someone with whom the chemistry between us causes me to defer.  So I really cannot wrap my mind around that person's statement.  But maybe others can.  Maybe some feel that they were taught or trained or conditioned into behaving more outwardly submissive to the world at large.  I dont know.  I think for some, it could apply.


Ditto, and I do not think we are a minority...smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 1:35:05 PM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I am not offended i just don't happen to agree with it sure my previouse masters helped me along a little but most of the growth i did in learning how to be a good submissive i did  on my own.  That man was as someone else said clueless.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 6:48:14 PM   
elfie


Posts: 36
Joined: 3/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well you cant have one without the other, so i would have to agree about being irked.

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 6:57:43 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I don't take offense to the word "trained", but I think it's one of the silliest concepts of the lifestyle.  What are you being trained for?  Who are you being trained for?  How can one person train you for another?  

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to elfie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/2/2006 7:04:56 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I don't take offense to the word "trained", but I think it's one of the silliest concepts of the lifestyle.  What are you being trained for?  Who are you being trained for?  How can one person train you for another?  


Pretty much my opinion. When I see the word train I think of a dressage horse. I tend to see the word trained as being similar to conditioned. Creating an automatic response or reflex that does not require thought. I happen to think a human being has more intelligence to think for themselves and figure out what works and doesn't. Besides, silly me, I thought a sub/slave served out of a desire to serve not because they were trained/conditioned to do so. Call me crazy but I don't want to have to train someone to give the illusion of wanting to please me, I want it to come from a deep desire within them.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/4/2006 10:32:45 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This really irked me.


Don't worry, I'm sure the author would quickly ascribe all faults, shortcommings, and dysfunctions straight to the subs themselves.

To digress, though, here is my general theory of BDSM type casting / and personality projection.

Its my impression from the MB that there is a general hierarchy of reasonableness among the D/S community (and I'm not expert.)

1. The most reasonable folks are the switches. They see both sides of the coin. They aren't vested with a sense of entitlement. They aren't prone to extreme ideological orientations. They don't take themselves too seriously. In general, too, its rare you ever see a switch complaining.

2. Next would be the subs and slaves --- who tend to think of others or someone else in particular first. This is somewhat imbalanced, but catering / subitting to someone else requires a bit of grounding in the real world and requires one to think past oneself in general. So subs come with a bit of consideration attached to them.

3. The least sensible / reasonable group (not always) are the Doms who can be vested with a sense of entitlement, ideological extremism, and a self centered view of relationships (everything revolves around me.) Ironically, it is these typically negative traits that make them somehow sexy to some, which serves to accentuate these DOM traits even more in certain cases.

3a. As a caveat, some Doms are differentiable from the negative type above in 3 --- those are the Doms who are versed with the responsibility of the power and control they wield. These Doms understand people and limitations, and I would rate these folks outside of the #3 class.

It is my view that Doms in class 3 find it challenging to stay in a LTR, and that they tend to project the failure of such relationships onto subs.

The 3a Doms can make LTR's work, poly relationship's work, and can cultivate subs both as people and as subs. They engage in what I would call, "enlighted power exchange."

I am sure there are also offshoots to #2 (do me subs, fetish subs, etc.) and #1 (neurotics), but I think I've done enough informally researched generalizing for one post.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/4/2006 10:40:02 PM >

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/4/2006 10:41:34 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I agree it's not all about the Dom/mes doing all the work.
I offer guidence,advice and lay the first few bricks of the foundation.
Its up to the submissive to finish the foundation and build up from there.
Under the watchful eye of the Building Inspector.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to Silvermoon)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/5/2006 9:15:36 AM   
gypsylee


Posts: 293
Joined: 9/18/2006
From: Melbournia, Australia
Status: offline 		good one Silvermoon.

quote:



8/27/2006 11:25:56 AM: I am quite impressed with the quality of the subs on this website. Kudos go out to the Doms/Dommes who have trained them in the past.



my last D/s relationship was almost 10yrs ago. and i'm sure there are heaps of great subs here who've never had a Dom/me. or does that mean they're not subs? personally i think a sub can exist without a Dom more than vice versa.



_____________________________

You're one twisted fuck... Nup, I'm just an ordinary girl with nothin' to lose.


(in reply to MistressSassy66)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/5/2006 11:02:12 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Maybe the OP doesnt have a Dom or a partener and they're just feeling abit touchy on the subject

personally i'd of taken it as a compliment

(in reply to gypsylee)
Profile   Post #: 20
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