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What do we do? - 1/20/2005 1:55:07 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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A few days’ ago inside posted a photo of a woman who clearly has been on steroids in one of the sections.
It got me to thinking. Especially after reading some of the post’s today and wants and needs. Apparently there is much speculation and fighting over them. I have to be honest; I’ve only read one so far. I doubt I will read the rest.
Yet, the question comes to my mind. Especially this time of year. People want to lose weight. You hear a lot about doms saying they will put their submissives on diets and such.

Dominants are supposed to have the best interests in place for their submissives. More often than not they do not. In my opinion it may be out of sheer ignorance.
Where should the line be drawn though?

For instance, let’s say I go to a trainer. He tells me do cardio for 30 minutes a day.
Chest machine at 85, 2 reps of 12.

Now my Dom enters the scene. No, I want you do to cardio for 15 and I want you to lift 150. Who would the good submissive listen to?

Even though listening to the Dom could very well be an extremely bad thing. Yet, at the same time we are not told to question their judgment.

What does one do? Sorry it took me so long to get to my point.

Post #: 1

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:19:31 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
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From: UK
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quote:

For instance, let’s say I go to a trainer. He tells me do cardio for 30 minutes a day.
Chest machine at 85, 2 reps of 12.

Now my Dom enters the scene. No, I want you do to cardio for 15 and I want you to lift 150. Who would the good submissive listen to?

Unless Your Dominant was a fitness trainer or has studied or discussed with an expert, I would say that advice given, 'just because the Dom desires' shows a lack of care for His sub/slave.

I do not think that any responsible Dominant that cares about His slave/subs well being would demand/request that a specific fitness regime be altered without consulting an expert first. For me it sends up a red flag. I believe that the slave/sub should ask permission to question the reasons behind His decision... explain the fears... and listen intently to Masters answers.

Master desires are to be adhered to, but not to the detriment of the sub/slave. Subs/slave can relinquish their control, but not their commen sense.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 2

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:19:31 PM

INSIDEYOURMIND

Posts: 483
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quote:

Even though listening to the Dom could very well be an extremely bad thing. Yet, at the same time we are not told to question their judgment.

gloria,

I think a good Dom would know what is best for their charge, but would make those decisions based on valid resource. Using your example, if she was working with a trainer, I would just reinforce his regimen.

These posts in reference to the needs of a sub/slave are all asking and saying the same thing. Being a sub, or a slave is a conscious choice of a person, the days of forced slavery are behind us, (except in some third world countries) these people want, and desire this life, the level of their personal servitude is chosen by them, and then offered to a Dom/Master/Domme/Mistress.

It is not my sub's job to question me, but I certainly want her opinion. This goes back to the thread on a sub's abilty to communicate with their Master/Mistress. If you cannot have an open conduit of communication, the relationship is doomed.

The trust she has given to me is not taken lightly, and as such, I would never put her in harm's way.

The thread that had the picture you referenced was about weight loss, and carolyn had posted that her issue is gaining weight, not losing it. I take the responsibility to see that she eats, and eats good choices that will help her keep weight on.

It is my job as her Master to care for her like the precious possesion she is.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 3

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:25:15 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Master desires are to be adhered to, but not to the detriment of the sub/slave. Subs/slave can relinquish their control, but not their commen sense.

Thank you angel, you always seem to throw one sentence in everything that sums it all up beautifully.

Inside, I merely brought up the weight issue because it was that post that got me to thinking. What if your Dom orders you to do something that will harm you? To summarize anyway. The Dom should know it all, yet clearly he or she cannot know it all either.
So, when is the proper time to question? It wasn't necessarily directed at you. You just made me think about it.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 4

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:31:44 PM

proudsub

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Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
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I would never submit to being told exactly what to eat and how to work out. I am the one who has done the research in those fields and know what's best for my body. Last winter when Hubby saw how well i was doing following the South Beach plan He wanted to do it too, but He refused to read the book and told me to tell Him what He could eat. Now He calls me the "South Beach Cop". I guess i am submitting by following His directions to tell Him what to eat LOL.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 5

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:41:59 PM

INSIDEYOURMIND

Posts: 483
Status: offline

quote:

It wasn't necessarily directed at you.

To nip any misunderstanding in the bud, I was not offended, upset, hurt, crushed, damaged, brought to tears, by your comment.

I too was using it as an example.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 6

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 2:48:34 PM

harmony3709

Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

For instance, let’s say I go to a trainer. He tells me do cardio for 30 minutes a day.
Chest machine at 85, 2 reps of 12.

Now my Dom enters the scene. No, I want you do to cardio for 15 and I want you to lift 150. Who would the good submissive listen to?

Even though listening to the Dom could very well be an extremely bad thing. Yet, at the same time we are not told to question their judgment.

Gloria, this was not the exact scenerio for me, but the general idea is in principal very close to a situation I was in. Unfortunately, I was forced with making a choice and my self-preservation and common sense ended up overriding what I was being told by my Master, although this ultimately ended the relationship. Unfortunately, my attempts to discuss it were met with the comment that I was trying to talk my way out of it or making excuses or as I heard at the end -- I can't make you into a submissive if you really aren't one.

While I guess the relationship was ultimately not a good match, many months after the fact, I can still remember the overwhelming desire to do as he asked me to do, and the overwhelming pain and emotional trauma it caused me not to do it. I still frequently question whether I did the right thing -- maybe it was some kind of test as to whether I was willing to trust him......??? (One of a million possibilities that has gone through my mind since that happened.)

*shrugs* Who knows, and yes, I try hard not to dwell on it and for the most part have moved on......although admittedly will likely carry some of the scars and damage of this into the next relationship whether consciously or not.

But the bottom line is for me at least -- it was a risk I was not willing to take, and quite frankly, it was extremely damaging to the relationship in general, because I literally lost my faith in him to know and do what was best for me, as well as the fact that it just plain hurt to feel as if your safety was not a priority for the one you call Master. And yes, there had been other things -- many other things -- that I obeyed and weren't just things I enjoyed or liked, in other words, this was not the first time in the relationship I had been asked to do something I didn't want to do. That was not the case here. To me, being a submissive isn't about getting to do what I want, I am very service/pleasing oriented and have experience as such.

I think the only thing a submissive can do is make the difficult choice when it arises, and hopefully her inner voice and own self-preservation will guide her to do the right thing, whatever that may be for her. After all, ultimately the choice for her own well being is in her own hands.

harmony

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 7

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 3:57:42 PM

sub4hire

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Harmony,
I can only speak for myself. Many things I would do blindly. Yet on the other hand. If I knew for a fact it was a mistake.
I probably would use common sense as well. I'd talk it out with my Dom of course. He isn't one of those jackass types who say it’s my way or the highway. He is a decent human being who knows subs also have feelings. Which actually matter?

We are both different human beings and before we connected we followed different path's in life. He has skills I will never obtain just as I have skills he will never have. Together we are an impenetrable force. Together we are nothing but too lost souls. The lifestyle is about respect. Respect is not one sided it is always double sided.
So, I feel you made the right choice, no matter what the consequences were in the end.

(in reply to harmony3709)

Post #: 8

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 4:33:17 PM

FangsNfeet

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Joined: 12/3/2004
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If you don't like what your Dom tells you, well you can always re think the relationship and perhaps the life style. No one can truely make you do what they want you to do without illegaly inflicting damage or having your life in danger. No one said you have to legaly stay and take what your Dom dishes out.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 9

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 4:34:10 PM

liltxsubby

Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline

i don't think a sub should have to do anything that is harmful to herself because her Dom says so. A good Dom would not ask that to begin with. Personally, if i had a Dom that demanded i do something to harm myself, i would leave. He would not be fulfulling his part of being responsible for my well-being and that is no way to earn and keep trust.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 10

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 4:36:54 PM

sub4hire

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Personally, if i had a Dom that demanded i do something to harm myself, i would leave. He would not be fulfulling his part of being responsible for my well-being and that is no way to earn and keep trust.

That was sort of the point I was originally trying to make. What if he tells you to do something that will harm yourself but he does not know it would?

Is he still upholding his side of the relationship? It isn't like he is trying to make mistakes, but mistakes do happen.

(in reply to liltxsubby)

Post #: 11

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 4:54:28 PM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

If I knew for a fact it was a mistake. I probably would use common sense as well. I'd talk it out with my Dom of course.

I agree with you, if I KNEW FOR SURE that something was really unsafe I would very politely ask to talk it over with my Sir. He is a wise man and is not so arrogant or egotistical that He believes Himself to be in possession of super human powers that would never allow Him to be mistaken. I know that although He loves to hurt me, He never wishes to harm me and it is my responsibility to let him know of my fears. He can then decide what is right for me. If I did something that I knew was unsafe and would definitely result in my being harmed, I would have to then answer to Him as to why I did not bring said fact to His attention.

This is an extreme example but.....If the basement were to flood one day while Sir was away...and there were live power cords laying in the water....and upon His arrival home He told me to go to the basement and get something for Him before I could apprise Him of the situation....I would not just go hop skipping down the stairs because that was what He said....in order to make a decision regarding what He wants me to do, He does need to have all of the facts, and if I am the only one who knows a related fact, especially one that could be potentially dangerous, it is my responsibity to make Him aware.

I agree.. this is just a matter of common sense.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 12

RE: What do we do? - 1/20/2005 6:54:16 PM

MrThorns

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Joined: 6/4/2004
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I would hope that a "good submissive" knows her own body well enough to know what she is capable of. She's been in that body her whole life...hopefully she's become acquainted with it by now.

If I approach my slave and tell her that I am going to take charge of her physical conditioning, we would discuss the process. I would find out about certain health issues, difficulties in performing certain exercises, or anything else that may cause a problem.

Communuication seems to fix most any problem, it seems.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 13

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 9:58:38 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

Communuication seems to fix most any problem, it seems.

Very true. Nice to see you back Thorns, I haven't seen you around the board's much lately.

(in reply to MrThorns)

Post #: 14

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 11:11:59 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
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ANY Master/Dom should be concerned for the care and welfare/health of their slave/sub.
If they are not then they may not be such.

In this case one would "respectfully" discuss it with their Master and mention the expertese in this issue about the trainer.

Then you follow what you are told..

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 15

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 6:52:00 PM

CTclay

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Joined: 11/6/2004
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quote:

What if he tells you to do something that will harm yourself but he does not know it would?

Is he still upholding his side of the relationship? It isn't like he is trying to make mistakes, but mistakes do happen.

If he's telling you to do something that's going to seriously harm your health, then he's not "upholding his side of the relationship" EVEN IF "he does not know it would." The standard isn't what he knows or doesn't know, the standard is whether or not he's treating you safely.

As a submissive, I have a few very hard limits that I enter any D/s relationship with. One is that I won't do anything I feel is seriously unhealthy, and I'm the judge of that. I don't know how I'd fulfill my responsibility to myself if I didn't have that limit, and it's more important than D/s, more important than any relationship. That's where the line should be drawn. Brightly. Before entering into the relationship.

Anything else is abuse.

< Message edited by CTclay -- 1/21/2005 6:53:10 PM >

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 16

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 7:01:16 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

If he's telling you to do something that's going to seriously harm your health, then he's not "upholding his side of the relationship" EVEN IF "he does not know it would." The standard isn't what he knows or doesn't know, the standard is whether or not he's treating you safely.

I think this is right on the money myself.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to CTclay)

Post #: 17

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 9:12:56 PM

NATI

Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
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quote:

Now my Dom enters the scene. No, I want you do to cardio for 15 and I want you to lift 150. Who would the good submissive listen to?

A good dominant is going to take his/her submissive's capabilities into account before assigning any change like this - exercise, diet what have you. The first thing I would require would be a visit to the doctor to find out what kind of shape the sub was in. After that - off to the trainer. The trainer's guideline would be the guideline that I went by.

Same thing with nutrition and weight loss. I am not going to say "Gee, sub - here's your carrot and glass of water. Enjoy your breakfast."

But the question put was 'who would the sub listen to.' If a dominant made something like that a requirement, compliance on the part of the sub is potentially dangerous and quite possibly life threatening. How does he/she know that you would be capable of lifting that much weight? Would your heart be able to tolerate it? Would you end up ripping all of the ligaments in your shoulders? Would your knees bear up under that kind of stress? If you have not been exercising regularly and built up to that kind of weight and/or cardio workout - chances are good that you are going to end up with a significant injury.

Listen to the trainer.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 18

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 9:54:04 PM

RealityFix

Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
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Serously if I wanted a sub to get into better shape, I would consult a trainer and a dietician first, AND her doctor.

I do not neccesarily think I have all of the right answers, and I never let my ego get big enough that I won't hold my propertie's best interests BEFORE a swelled head!

(in reply to NATI)

Post #: 19

RE: What do we do? - 1/21/2005 10:26:58 PM

sub4hire

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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For all who are using the exercise example. The reason why I brought it up is because the other day I was at the gym. On the elliptical, my favortie machine. Watching other's work out. 8 out of 10 people were not lifting right. Lifting in ways they would hurt themselves if too much weight was on. Or lifting too fast to ever make any sort of difference.

Made me think....what if? Nobody ever steps in and corrects them. My Dom has worked with trainers for years. So, I've been lucky he is there to guide me. I've done my own research and asked my own trainers over time. So I know he is right. So, easily he could'nt be right as well.
It would be very easy to get seriously hurt.

I do agree with everyone though. I think the sub should question. Just, if it were me and I didn't know any better either. It is sort of the blind leading the blind.

(in reply to NATI)

Post #: 20

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