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RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 7:19:06 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Only reminds me why my favourite place to spend non-working time is on my farm, hiking, riding horses. I don't need any of that shit in my world.

Hey Crappy, come to the farm! We can build a bonfire, roast somethingotherthanhotdogsIhatehotdogs, and make smores and drink wine and laugh ourselves silly while listening to the coyotes and owls. WAY more fun, at least for me.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to raiken)

Post #: 21

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 7:35:04 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Sounds great Tigress!

One of the problems with the scene is that good people don't stay. The scene self selects for a certain type and many who would make the scene better leave.

I tried a lot when I was in it hot and heavy, I organized things like community munches where all the groups got together for one much and it was a lot of fun. When I left they died because I had to push and cajole and even guilt people into participating.

For those wondering about the scene please note that I said it was an important thing to do, I am glad I did it and I may get back into it, I just don't see it happening right now.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 22

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 9:30:15 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

There is a dynamic to every group. If you have a problem with every group, if formal or informal gatherings don’t last, if you’ve never had a lasting group relationship where you felt welcomed and welcoming; you should consider maybe the problem isn’t with the groups. Maybe, just maybe, it could be you.

I have an inherent need and personality that has a very difficult time being a follower or observer; however I don’t require it. Arriving in LA after years of friendships in NYC I was concerned that I wouldn’t find people I would be comfortable as I was with my friends back east. It’s a very different dynamic here in laid back LA. Going to a party or club in the NYC area even the most submissive had an undercurrent of New York ‘personality’. So I went to every munch within driving distance, and every public club function. I joined, and sat through the initiation processes both ‘formal’ and ‘informal’; many times literally laughing out loud at the process on the way home. I volunteered, worked workshops and fundraisers and offered my ‘expertise’ in matters both of business and ‘scene’. When it was taken it was given, when it wasn’t I shut up even if I KNEW I could have done better. ‘Better’ is a relative term anyway; if the result was still positive ‘better’ is irrelevant.

You are correct about group leaders. Some are just frauds and fools. Out here I incurred that situation once. Instead of getting into conflict with that individual we just stopped attending. Just last week at Folsom some people from that group were there and we hung out with them. They asked why we didn’t go to the munch in question any more. It’s LA – the easy answer was we didn’t want to make the drive. Would it have served any purpose to describe in detail what occurred between us and the group’s leader? No, because other than the leader, the group has many people whose company we still enjoy. I didn’t and don’t need to be right.

Whining about organizing activities that nobody came? We arranged and organized a public group meeting of CM people about 2 years ago. We went so far as changing the location from home LA to Las Vegas because of the demand and convenience for those that wanted to attend. There were nearly 50 who “confirmed”. When the day came 6 CM people showed. There were deposits involved, and commitments for expenses. I incurred them. So what! Because I had friends within the ‘scene’ in Vegas who I met at another group’s function in SF; the play party I organized at a local facility still had 25 local people there. It was a blast! I wasn’t concerned that I didn’t collect the $10 from each of them to recover my cost, there were there as my friends.

It is unfair to compare NYC and LA community opportunities with Topeka Kansas. Not because of the lack of like minded people, but because they just may be more underground. If you want to find people and be involved with a group I believe you can do it anywhere if you dedicate yourself. Long standing groups are inherently fixed in there ways. Why are there dozens of groups in LA instead of one organized big one? Obviously schisms aren’t unique to Christianity. However if you can’t seem to fit or maintain friendships and associations for any period of time, the failure to blend isn’t theirs, it’s yours.

Are you looking for a ‘payoff’ for your ‘investment’ with a group not just monetary but in recognition or accolades? What would make your associating with a group lasting? Complete compliance with your viewpoint of the scene as well as world events? Our requirement is more basic. If its fun and we have fun we associate with the people. We offer our services, our home, our time, and most of all we offer our integrity. We don’t require that they do, say, or think about issues as we do. Ideally they don’t because it makes the discussions more lively and informative. A commitment to casual FUN and camaraderie is a group dynamic we seek if the ‘group’ is one another couple, 10 couples at a house party, 50 at a club, 500 at the Folsom Fringe, or 300,000 (including ‘vanillas’) who we enjoined at the Folsom Street Fair. In 20+ years, I’ve never been “burnt out” or “sickened” by the ‘scene’, the community or many of its people. Individuals who I don't get along with or don't get along with me are a small minority and subject to change. If anything, especially after arriving here after 9/11, the scene, community, and the individuals re-lit the fire and passion of my life.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 23

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 9:42:02 AM

tade

Posts: 663
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Tampa Bay, Florida
Status: offline

I tend to not like people in general, so it takes me a long while to warm up to "strangers". If someone comes across as an ass I usually tell them so and am not welcomed back, which pretty much takes care of the problem right there. Thankfully we have a pretty tight group of close friends or I would have no social life at all. Come to think of it though that doesn't strike me as all that bad. A lot of our play come from our slave. She is always out their "campaigning" for new submissives for us to play with. Between that and the occasional friend who knows about us or friend of a friend that gets curious we stay pretty happy keeping to ourselves as far as the scene goes. We do have a membership to a local club and have met a few good friends there, but I mostly use that for learning (they have a great singletail enthusiast that is a joy to watch work) or we use it as a change of venue with a few more things to tie people to.

_____________________________

I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.
Hunter S. Thompson

It's a magical world Hobbes 'ole buddy. Let's go explorin'~ Calvin

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 24

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 9:58:34 AM

MistressMelissa

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

Groups are the same no matter the subculture. From the Goth and Vampire to the BDSM community the drama remains the only constant. We are drawn to groups since we are social creatures but over time unless the group grows, it will fail to meet our needs and we become disillusioned by it.

Many Munches are social events based around "SM101". If you are new and just getting started they can be a great tool. The problem is it stops there. What ever happened to SM202 or SM303? How many time can you watch the same people play? After a couple of years of play parties you can't help but feel...been there, done that, got the tee shirt, gave it to goodwill.

Some people seem to get stuck at one point in the lifestyle and if that is where they are happy I say great, but for me I want more. Unfortunately on-line forums like collarme, ALT, bondage...well, I just feel my odds at finding who I seek are better in real time. I have also come to the conclusion that to find the people I want, I need to be known. The clubs, Munches and events create name recognition and when you have a reputation for a specific style then others can find you.

Unfortunately one's worth in the community is often based upon play skills and how one dresses. Both I find to be superficial and maybe thats the real issue. Over time you see the groups for what they are...superficial and lacking in substance.

So while I am drawn to the groups to find those i seek, and I have met some wonderful people, at the same time I would much rather be seated at my dining room table surrounded by friends and the members of my house.

_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 25

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 10:37:05 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Merc,

quote:

If you have a problem with every group, if formal or informal gatherings don’t last, if you’ve never had a lasting group relationship where you felt welcomed and welcoming; you should consider maybe the problem isn’t with the groups. Maybe, just maybe, it could be you.

The group I formed in Sacramento begged me to take it over both times I quite and still runs to this day and is the largest group here.

Larger communites tend to be more healthy because you CAN form more groups, but there is a joke those of us who played in the scene and grew tired of the people who occupy it that is very telling.

We are all looking for the group for people who hate groups...

quote:

I’ve never been “burnt out” or “sickened” by the ‘scene’, the community or many of its people

What does that say about YOU?

(in reply to MistressMelissa)

Post #: 26

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 10:50:54 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

We have a saying here in NC...if you don't like the groups, start your own. Of course, this is probably why we have 15+ groups in the state. ;-) Well, that and we don't have any large scale places to play, so things have to be small in order to fit into homes.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 27

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 11:17:46 AM

SweetSarijane

Posts: 3788
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: KC area Missouri
Status: offline

I'm not involved with all the groups in my area. I tend to stay away from high drama groups. The ones I do belong to and socialize with are fairly small and all but drama free and are kept that way and thus my experience to date has stayed very positive. I have a number of friends and acquaintances from the groups I belong to as well as a few from other groups I choose to not socialize in. I simply found where I fit best and felt most comfortable and stay away from the rest. No burnout for me as yet and I don't really expect it any time soon.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers KCSass

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 28

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 11:39:49 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

I’ve never been “burnt out” or “sickened” by the ‘scene’, the community or many of its people

What does that say about YOU?

It says I enjoy the company of people in out outside the community and always have; and it says I'm not drawn to or bring drama along as a guest when I enjoin a group whether it be the church choir or the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.

quote:

The group I formed in Sacramento begged me to take it over both times I quite and still runs to this day and is the largest group here.
I take it you meant quit, and not "quite". The "begging" must be very empowering. Me, I'd be glad to help and have whenever asked.

quote:

We are all looking for the group for people who hate groups...
I'd prefer what my comment says regarding us.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 29

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 1:21:36 PM

Sensualips

Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline

In my past city, I enjoyed the local scene. Good people, good events, very little drama and what existed was kept very hush hush and behind the scenes so as not to really impace the masses. I was also new, but I enjoyed it for a year and got very involved.

Then I moved to abigger city. I think I assumed it would be similar or maybe even better - more options, more choices, more to pick from. Turns it out it is basically just more mess.

I just can't decide which route to take now. Snub all groups and events and stick with a small circle of friends. Participate in a limited way and gripe about how crappy the local scene is within the small circle of friends. Actively seek out the least messed up group, wiggle my way in, and grasp a leadership position and assist in making it over in my own vision.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 30

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 1:47:23 PM

degradess

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline

A bit off the subject but I was reading your take on romantic love and I do agree. Very well thought out and true.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 31

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 2:16:38 PM

Argentopal

Posts: 379
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: Central Texas / Hill Country
Status: offline

I am wondering why (in the first post) it is "a sign of sickness" to stay in a group for more than 5 years? It is our pov that there weer good, experienced people in the group to welcome and help us grow - not just in play and techniques, but in general. Now we stay because we want to be around to help others. Maybe we do not go to qute everything that is available, but we are active and often called on to help with things. it is a way of giving back to a community that welcomed us with open arms and has provided us with many opportunities to mark freinds, learn new things and have a lot of fun along the way. After a bit you know who the drama queens are and we just stay away from them and out of the fights they try to start.

We love the energy at larger play parties and the warmth and comfort levels at smaller ones. We like seminars about things wh want to leanr more about. We like meeting new people and seeing old friends. We like small weekends with close friends. We like playing kinky games and card games, bbqs and movies, and we are glad to have a wide range of like minded friends to share it all with.
Argent and Opal

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 32

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 2:21:28 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Well, I know what it says about me. ---> Isn't a people person...lol

agirl

Yup, Even a post this short can need editing.

< Message edited by agirl -- 10/6/2006 2:23:15 PM >

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 33

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 2:37:44 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I think you guys are paying too much attention. Sure there is drama and backstabbing going on in most groups where cliques are involved. The trick is feigning oblivion.

I have one hard and fast rule in my group, take your bitchin elsewhere. I don't mind if you want to be pissy on your own time. Just don't involve me or post it to my list. I don't watch soap operas and I don't engage is petty drama.

That said, it is pretty darned amusing to observe the havoc that can happen in a small group of people. And I find it laughable if they choose to peg me into evil slot A, or gullible slot B, because it really doesn't matter to me, what someone thinks about me. ... Until it matters enough for me to HANDLE them appropriately.

Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I honestly believe that spending time in the public scene is a good healthy right of passage. I also firmly believe that if you stay in it longer than five years or something that that is a sign of sickness to.

I got pmed by someone inviting me to a small event. I asked a few questions and the response I got back was snide and insulting questioning how real I was. The insecurity and animosity present in that and other emails sicked me and just remined me of why I stay out of the scene.

The worst predetory people I have know, some ran groups, many were too passive to deal with genuine problems, etc. I once played with an office of the Society of Janus, I bottomed to her as a "growth" experience early on in my career. The frigging guilt trip she tried to lay on me because I didn't get off on it was shocking. Luckily for me I had advanced enough at that point to see that what she was doing was a crock of shit.

It all sucks because I AM very social and I dig public play I just can't stand being around the dysfunction. I imagine it is worse in say a church group but one would hope we would at least see less of it in our "more advanced" little subculture.

Sorry for the rant, I am just too tired to be nice.

Coming from someone who was in the (munch-slosh) scene for 5 years, actually closer to 6, I can relate CD.. Hell, in fact in many ways it reminded Me of a church somewhat too, plenty of hypocrisy, biased political (lifestyle) views, cliquishness, the warm hugs behind the flaming, back-stabbin gossip I witnessed. Now I dont mind a workshop or play event, least I dont have to subjected to listening to all the bs while watching them stuff their faces.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)

Post #: 34

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 3:47:01 PM

ChainedExistence

Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

Sorry, that your experience with this group is something that makes you want to scream. I've never found much desire to join a BDSM group, but that's been a personal choice, and not one based on thinking groups are good or bad. Recently though, I've been through an experience in my workplace that reminded me of how minor issues can be blown completely out of proportion and how poorly people can behave. It's easy to get caught up in the negative energy that such situations create. Fortunately, through this past year, I have had the opportunity to work through this quite volatile situation without letting it make me completely nuts. I drew my strength from Master. He was an outsider and my voice of calm reason. Having someone you can blow off steam to, and who can listen and put things in perspective is invaluable. I can't imagine being a part of any group without knowing I had at least one person who could act as my soundingboard. Obviously your situation is complicated by this being a BDSM group..it's not like you can talk about that to ANYONE..but even a friend who is at least kink friendly would be a valuable person to have in your life. I have the ideal friend in Master because I know that he cares for my emotional well-being and wants the best for me always. With his calm demeanor and his listening ear, I have found that it is easier for me to not take on all that drama. I found that I was better able to contribute to the group in a positive manner- bringing my own talents and positive energy into play. I'm sure you have many positive qualities that you can bring to a group- you are knowledgeable, witty, and you will find that others will want to follow your lead in working toward creating something that can be enjoyable once again. I've been told that I'm a bit of an idealist, but I sincerely believe that if you put all your positive energy toward something, you can create a new reality for yourself and others.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 35

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 4:24:12 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Crappy, I agree with you.
I've been to dozens of play parties over the years. They were good for meeting new people and a little entertainment sometimes. Same for "The Vault" and places like that.
Some Munches too but the people at those should have been at weight watchers, men and women alike.
I don't really go to any public functions anymore, not for the last few years anyway.
I'd prefer to find one sub/slave.

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 36

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 6:20:03 PM

SirLordTrainer

Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline

Thats fine and great if it works for you. As well groups have theyre place. I personally was a learning Dom (and still am) long before munchs came about here in 98, and do very well without them now, and what I saw I didnt like. Perhaps in other states they are better. But after readin Popeyes post I have My doubts. LOL

_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 37

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 8:33:26 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Merc,

Thanks for so eloquently making my point for me that many like yourself who remain in the scene are best avoided.

Both of your posts to me are full of snide little innuendo, first saying that my pattern must be due to my inability to socialize and form lasting connection, then when I politely counter you, you then twist it once again to mock me and go on to add several other subtle insults.

It is "polite" people like yourself that know full well they are being assholes but who fear being recognized as such, put a thin veneer of civility over their veiled insults.

Me, if I want someone to know I think they are assholes, I am at least honest and up front about it. Thanks for reinforcing for me why I find the scene so full of unhealthy people.

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)

Post #: 38

RE: I am so sick of the scene I want to scream - 10/6/2006 9:14:42 PM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

I blame it on republican politics, which mostly seems to consist of an inability to admit when you're wrong - and you never learn anything if you're always "right".

There is no such thing as catagorical integrity: when you have it, you have it, when you don't, you don't.

We used to call that "a bad attitude".

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 39

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