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Three Catagories - 1/20/2005 9:06:54 PM   
RiotGirl


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< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 11:04:27 PM >
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RE: Three Catagories - 1/20/2005 9:29:23 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

There Are three Catagorie's, Level's.

There are Tops, Doms/Dominas, and Master's

There are bottoms, subs and slaves.

Top's/bottoms.. are bedroom fun only........

Dom,Domina's/subs i am not so sure on since i am not one

Master,Mistresses/slaves is pretty much what i speak from.. cos its what i know



So, where does someone like me fit into this paradigm? Most people define me as a top/bottom switch, but my interests have only limited connection to "bedroom fun".

Some call me a dominant masochist, because there's certainly not much that's submissive about most of what I enjoy.

Mistress/slave doesn't fit me at all.

So....am I a figment of my imagination, since I don't fit into any of these 3 categories?

Personally, I hate this kind of categorization because it almost always leads to hierarchical thinking. I don't tend to be a vertical thinker, and I much prefer to see wiitwd as something of a horizontal continuum. We all have our place wherever it feels right at the moment, not necessarily confined to a particular label and certainly not more/better than any other place on that continuum.

I had a professor who used to tell us to that labels were for jars not for people. I tend to think he was on the right track with that.

< Message edited by SherriA -- 1/20/2005 9:30:14 PM >

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/20/2005 9:57:24 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		You must be one o' them there "wannabes" that I hear all the Twue Real Master Dominates keep talking about.

Thank you for pointing out in glaring detail just how meaningless attempts at defining such hierarchies are.

~stef

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/20/2005 10:01:32 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Hi Riot, I wrote this post on a predominantly vanilla website I am on in New Zealand in response to a woman asking about D/s and her new *green* male Dom wanting her to explore bi-sexuality... I wrote quite a long reply but it does include how I see the differing levels within the three ... sorry its long...but havent time to edit it at the moment ...anyway hope it explains for you how I see the levels...

Jasmyn

"Hi Harmless ...first off, no bi-sexuality is not a pre-requiste in D/s ... but I am a great believer in our ability to eroticise an image/fantasy and begin to desire it over time. Inherently though only you will know...so its a choice of feel the fear and do it anyway ...or keep it fantasy and fend off tactics to make you go there to fullfill someone else's kink until it has become your own, if ever. Now I only say this because I fear as a new dom his requests of you scream he is way keen but far too green. If this was your kink I'd say :thumbsup: go for gold but what he is asking is a limit pushing exercise and requires he actually understands what he is doing with this process.

Dynamics of the Owner/slave relationship dictates limits can be pushed and the slave will not question... but dynamics of the Dom/sub relationship dictates that limits are only pushed when the sub has consented. In either case the submitting partner retains a form of control, that would make an oxymoron of the term Owner/slave I know but only if the term is viewed superficially.

The 'slave' consents to ownership knowing they can not question what will be asked of them and their freely given continual servitude ensures consent is present.

Whereas in the Dom/sub relationship consent is continually seeked and then given between both partners with each retaining equal shares in control...ie the Dom agrees to do a, b and c because he/she *wants* to do them to a sub who *wants* these things done to her/him. Kind of like Dom/sub relationships do things when they are both ready while the Owner/slave relationship does things when the dominant party requires it.

Keeping in mind the Owner/slave relationship is often servitude or whorshipped based and dictates the needs of the dom party have to be put first for the relationship dynamic to exist in the first place.

To add more head stuff into the mix ... the Dom/sub relationship requires elements of Owner/slave inbalance to be present to enable the power exchange to take place...ie I give you submission in exchange for your dominance. And the Owner/slave relationship needs elements of Dom/sub equal share to be present to enable servitude/worship to take place...ie I give you submission because you are my dominant.

And then there is a third dynamic of Top/bottom, generally associated with SM (sado-masochism) where no power exchange needs to be present just consent, but also same sex sexual dynamics and BDSM play scenes where the players agree to play out an specfic act ... ie spanking, forced feminisation, flogging, bondage .. etc to address a mutual need. Just like it has also come as away for people to describe how they enjoy non-vanilla sex, a tool for communicating the dynamic they most enjoy out of the two roles available; but do not require a committed power exchange to do it and may not require any element of D/s outside the bedroom other than underlying mutual knowledge that the other is sexually submissive or sexually dominant.

I can't make this clear enough. I see threads about kinky sex and I think more power to ya :thumbsup: its fantastic when you can find someone who you can inherently trust to make you cum screaming like banshee or moaning like a porn star getting jiggy with our non-vanilla selves ... but being sexually subservient or sexually dominant does not equate to requiring a D/s relationship to get horny, nor does it make someone outside the bedroom a sub/slave or a dominant/owner. It simply means someone enjoys horny sex experiences and possibly fantasy role play.

Although I make it sound each dynamic is mutually exclusive of the other they are not...someone who enjoys bedroom submission may discover through role play, extended play scenes (ie a day/week) where they assume the roles 24/7 for that time, that they find a sense of peace in that role and seek to explore the next level of BDSM Top/bottom scenes, evolving to a more permeating Dom/sub relationship, through to Owner/slave where trust has been earned and 24/7 consent gifted.

Where I see a lot of problems arise in D/s *labelled* relationships/interactions is when the process to bring about each dynamic is not understood fully or in part by either or both parties..or willing to be employed as a means to an end...compounded by the ludicrous assumptions that all submissive females want to be whored out by their masters and all submissive males need to be kicked in the balls by ball breaking mistresses ...or that all submissive people want rough sex or humiliation.

Without wanting to offend you or your partner, the answer to your question is no...doing whatever is requested is not a default setting. I could rant and rave about him been a horndog using D/s to get his rocks off at your expense with little respect for consensuality and the belief you agreeing to sexually sub means he has free reign over your body to do what he wants and he's about as masterful as my pet rock... but I wont ;) ... what I will say in his defence is he may just be soooooooo green he *thinks* this is what is expected of him and could be grateful to be shown the error of his ways and happily seek to be educated... but only you'll know what resonnates as being more likely in your situation.

A site I greatly enjoy and post on the m/boards there a lot if www.collarme.com ... the discussions there are invaluable to anyone new to the scene and encourage anyone who seeks a deeper PE based relationship/partner to make use of them.

A similar thread was posted there today with a sub woman asking about the Gorean lifestyle and her knowing it is based on the Gor books by John Norman but her questioning how closely the teachings in the books were followed by real life practicioners as she too was of the assumption doing whatever is requested and she feared whether she could be capable of giving up all contact with her family like the books dictate and would this make her a bad slave?

Asides from the fact in BDSM it is generally a given that isolation tactics are often hallmarkes of non consensual players but her own newness and ignorance to how consenting power exchanges generally operate made her submissives desires a dangerous entity, a sitting duck for abuse.

Hope this helps explain for you a little more of what is expected in D/s relationships vs kinky non-vanilla sex sessions and why it is important for all of us who say we're part of one to understand our desires first so we can always engage consensually. Thanks for posing the question HF I've greatly enjoyed responding to it.

Jasmyn"





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RE: Three Catagories - 1/20/2005 11:15:44 PM   
LdyAuburn


Posts: 179
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		My definition of me is 'the bossyone'

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 3:27:55 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		<---- slave who is submissive/sadistic/arrogant/wicked/cynical..........and *gasps*.....openly speaks her mind on pretty much everything. Oh yeah!! anddddd...serves her Master well *beamz* (He told me so, this is not one of the arrogant statements...LOL)

Don't fret about categories or labels....most people do not fit into them anyway....ya are whatchya are.

Happy Friday y'all...

~smilezz~




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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 4:52:40 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
i'm not trying to catagorize or label anyone (i very well know thats not possible) Its more just in a general sense.


It’s ok that you are. (Gasp! Did I really say that?)

Ok, let me rephrase that. It’s ok that you put people in categories in order to better understand your environment. All human beings possess categorical rules or scripts that they use to interpret the world. It’s called schematics and we all do it. When we see a creature flying in the sky, our brain runs through a series of schematics and our first conclusion: “It’s a bird”. Then of course we try to zoom in on it to identify, it is a big bird, a small bird, a white bird, a black bird… all this information will help us categorise what kind of bird it is. Sometimes we are stumped and we cannot identify it. But we try. And it’s not out of mischief but rather out of our curious human nature.

So why do we all get so upset when people try to label us? RiotGirl said she didn’t want to offend anyone and I believe her. Perhaps what upset some was not that she was trying to categorise but that she didn’t have enough categories. I can see that.

We are so afraid of labels because as a alternative group, it has more often then not been used to exclude or marginalise us. But we have to understand that to categorise is not always to be malicious but more often and not to understand. What we need to strive for is to allow for more categories or richer schemas.

- LA

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 6:52:05 AM   
RiotGirl


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< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 11:04:45 PM >

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 7:17:04 AM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		Riotgirl, I think you did just fine. Not everyone fits into cookie cutter labels but it helps when meeting someone new to identify yourself and go from there in the conversation. So, labels are a conversation starter only, in my opinion. I do not fit into alot of these labels myself but I don't get bent out of shape over it. Out of a process of elimination I am a sub because I can say no sometimes. I am not slave material and bless those who are. If a Dom told me to sleep at the foot of the bed, I'd say "Screw you". Or if I had to ask permission to pee, forget it!! But other than that I wait on Him hand and foot. I serve and please well.

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It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 9:33:02 AM   
1RottenJohnny


Posts: 113
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser

Riotgirl, I think you did just fine.


I agree. It's nearly impossible for me to grasp all the definitions anymore. I'm discovering that everybody's using their own. I wonder if it would help if we all just decided to call ourselves Sado-Dom-Maso-Missive Tops with Bottom tendencies.

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 9:58:01 AM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		To me, the most basic difference is this:

subs and their Dominants have a limited power exchange. This limit may be in length of time (say a weekend) or in area of control (say total control over clothes but not food) or both.

A slave, on the other hand, wants to surrender totally to a Master (gender neutral). A slave will only ever had one choice: to obey or not.

Fire


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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 9:59:58 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You can call me Gloria.

Any other label you can add as well. Sub, slave, Dom, Domina or whatever. The only name that really matters is the one Doug calls me.

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 10:47:43 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

IMHO (remember.. just my opionon not right not wrong.. unless told wrong LOL)
There Are three Catagorie's, Level's.
There are Tops, Doms/Dominas, and Master's
There are bottoms, subs and slaves.
Top's/bottoms.. are bedroom fun only........
Dom,Domina's/subs i am not so sure on since i am not one
Master,Mistresses/slaves is pretty much what i speak from.. cos its what i know


YMMV....
I look at things in a more loose configuration, as I've explained on some other threads, but I'll stick my two cents in here. I don't think anyone's right....I just think that we use these terms in ways that are comfortable for us, but not always meaningful for others. That's why sometimes the speaker means one thing, but it's not clear to the reader.

I don't quantify 'where' people are kinky in my definitions as much as I how I use expressions quantify 'how' thus:

For me, I can be a a Mistress a Top and a Domme all at the same time. What distinguishes what I am, for my purposes of expression, is in the relationship. So, if I'm with my collared submissive, I'm regarded by him as Mistress. If I'm with a group of folks at a party and I happen to see submissive tom and we decide we'd like to do a scene, in that context, I would be tom's Top, he would be my bottom, and when the negotiated play time was up, I'd be another Domme tom knew....

So, I use these terms to express the relationships, not who I am at all times.

Lily

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"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
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RE: Three Catagories - 1/21/2005 4:09:02 PM   
RiotGirl


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< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 11:04:13 PM >

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:01:33 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		I'm a sadistic vampire with a foot fetish and who is incontrol.
If anyone feels empaled to know more, send me a private msg and I'll explain it to you.

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:06:44 PM   
Moleculor


Posts: 189
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		I'm a one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eater.

The question, of course, is am I purple, or do I only eat purple people?

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:10:15 PM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		*smile*

I finally just use this as the quick-in-a-nutshell sound bite description of my BDSM orientations:

I'm a sensual sadistic sexually monogamous BDSM poly Dominant that is a heavy masochistic bottom with submissive tendencies.

I can be wholly any one of those at any given moment.

Or pieces of each - interchangably.

Or just plain ol 'nilla.

lol

~ShadeDiva

_____________________________

~ShadeDiva
My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:10:55 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

The question, of course, is am I purple, or do I only eat purple people?


I've been wondering that since that song first came out, i think i was in jr. high then. I remember a contest a local radio station had, which was to draw a picture of a purple people eater. A friend and i entered it, we made ours purple.

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"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:23:02 PM   
Socrateaser


Posts: 8
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Labels? I dunt need no stinkin' labels.

All kidding aside, labels are a good starting point in understanding basic concepts, but to think that all people fit into one of three pre-defined groups is an exercise in futility.

I never found a single label that fit me in the nilla world and I have no intention of changing that here.

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RE: Three Catagories - 1/22/2005 6:30:33 PM   
ShadeDiva


Posts: 1005
Joined: 3/31/2004
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline 		Well obviously my little sound bite would explode any box.

It's really more tongue in cheek though it is somewhat accurate.

Tends to shut up the folks that ask for a label and make them chew on it a bit and realize that I'm not going to be an easy cut and dried type of conversationalist.

~ShadeDiva

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My projects of love:
theFetishForums
HumanFauna
Kinked
DommeWorld

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