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RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/23/2005 12:40:20 PM

subcheryl

Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
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Thank you proudsub, appreciate the advice and will keep you informed on how things turn out. Am very excited,but nervous, and know with the excitement unclear thinking can happen so will try to keep all undercontrol. again thank you and without people like you here on the message boards I shudder to think what would happen to the newbies.

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Post #: 21

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/26/2005 8:35:13 PM

VyperX

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/17/2004
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First off, I'm really surprised at the amount of reaction my thought brought on. I anticipated coming back and finding MAYBE one response. But I spawned even a brief (and humorous) spat! I've impressed myself. But I'm easily impressed so that's not unusual.

More seriously, however, I'll try to (re)condense and refocus my thought. Here it is in bold:

I find it appalling that I've realized that the certain measured feigned disinterest is effective in d/s.

In having thought about my query some more, I've come to the following realization: There's a lot of "fantasy surfing" going on. This is a seperate issue, but not entirely. In flirtation with scene folk face-to-face I've been impressed with what I can best describe as downright emotional nakedness. I really haven't had to do the "dance" and finding that it's effective is a let-down. Maybe I've just been very lucky until now -- or just better in person. But I'm thinking it has to do with the preponderence of and ease (of being) a poser online.

Fantasy surfing.

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Post #: 22

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/26/2005 8:45:06 PM

VyperX

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/17/2004
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quote:

As a side bar, if one were seeking a submissive woman, one wants to present with a certain degree of power, and a certain aloofness. What could be more powerful that simply and honestly stating your interest, your reservations, and leaving it there on the table for her to make the next move, while you continue to consider other options?

Lawrence,

You really did hit it on the head. Didn't see your response until my response, however.

The problem is that I'm not that type. I'm not aloof. I'm intense but perhaps even deferential. Post submission -- then a whole other universe opens up in response. I'm not that good nor am I really that kind of guy. I was raised to be a gentleman, and I'm not going to compromise that to fulfill someone's fantasy of what I should be. This may open a topic that I don't necessarily want to air, but here it is.

Anyhow, thanks for the clarity.

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Post #: 23

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/27/2005 5:50:34 AM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

The problem is that I'm not that type. I'm not aloof. I'm intense but perhaps even deferential. Post submission -- then a whole other universe opens up in response. I'm not that good nor am I really that kind of guy. I was raised to be a gentleman, and I'm not going to compromise that to fulfill someone's fantasy of what I should be. This may open a topic that I don't necessarily want to air, but here it is.

M. Vyper-

Perhaps 'aloof' is a poor choice of words.

I am a gentleman, to such an extent that I am often told that I am 'too nice' to be a dominant or a sadist ( Later, I get a real kick out of reminding someone that they said that, when they are hanging in the chains and screaming<g>). An important facet of this, to me, is that I must be aware that my attraction to a prospect in no way obliges reciprocation.

I do make my interest clear, but having done so, I am ready to move on- unless I have some indication that the interest is mutual. To me, this seems more honest than pressing my suit, and has the added advantage that she must take some responsiblity for her desires, and for what happens next.

as regards 'Fantasy Surfing', I find that many of the people that one encounters online are in fact,despite what they state, or for that matter, what they believe, are actually online to avoid a real interaction. It's disheartening, but it is often the case.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

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Post #: 24

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/27/2005 6:44:22 AM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
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I agree completely and I ascribe it to the fact that there are, for all intents and purposes, two distict lifestyle communities. The online community is preponderantly male, sexually-oriented and to be taken with a huge amount of salt. The R/T community is preponderantly, al least in my area, female, relationship-oriented and a lot less deceptive.

Although I participate in both communities, I have learned to not confuse the two. I tend to find a lot more intriguing discussion online than I do in the R/T community. This is due in large part, I think, to the fact that those who are really fascinated by WIITWD, whether on the emotional, intellectual or physical level, seem to gravitate toward test-based interaction on complicated topics. Perhaps I'm being needlessly snobbish, but I find that some topics require the freedom to compose one's thoughts as a whole, without interruption, something that cannot be easily managed in conversation. I value these forums for the exchange of ideas, opinions and beliefs and consider them to be an important part of my efforts at continuing to learn and grow. I do not, however, view those I interact with online in the same light as those I interact with in person. As much as I enjoy my online interactions, unless I've interacted with someone in person, much of who they say they are remains in doubt.

Because there is necessarily a lack of faith in online claims, folks tend to be much more guarded than they are in person, at least in my experience. I think 'the dance' is closely aligned with the lack of trust and perhaps even outright suspicion of others' motives that is prevalent online. I've found that I can never assume that one who claims to be submissive online can necessarily be taken at face value so I am much less forthcoming than I would be in person where I could judge her reactions by observing body language, speech patterns and facial expressions.

Timothy

quote:

ORIGINAL: VyperX

First off, I'm really surprised at the amount of reaction my thought brought on. I anticipated coming back and finding MAYBE one response. But I spawned even a brief (and humorous) spat! I've impressed myself. But I'm easily impressed so that's not unusual.

More seriously, however, I'll try to (re)condense and refocus my thought. Here it is in bold:

I find it appalling that I've realized that the certain measured feigned disinterest is effective in d/s.

In having thought about my query some more, I've come to the following realization: There's a lot of "fantasy surfing" going on. This is a seperate issue, but not entirely. In flirtation with scene folk face-to-face I've been impressed with what I can best describe as downright emotional nakedness. I really haven't had to do the "dance" and finding that it's effective is a let-down. Maybe I've just been very lucky until now -- or just better in person. But I'm thinking it has to do with the preponderence of and ease (of being) a poser online.

Fantasy surfing.

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RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/27/2005 1:08:54 PM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VyperX
In normal vanilla dating, there is a bit of a predator/prey element in the milieu. Knowing how to feign just the right degree of disinterest, for example, is a key skill in the hunt.

Now, on the surface, you'd think that in d/s, with the increased need for honesty and transparency, that this wouldn't be the case. But it is.

And why would emotional openness not be the best policy? Maybe because if everyone else is playing the normal dating/mating games.

I know what you mean about initial openness, but experience and countless books say that "it is not"...
I would like to think that people in D/s or BDSM are more evolved emotionally/psychologically, and therefore without need to play games, but in the end, all people I suppose have experiences of pain, and fear, and need for self preservation including hiding behind a mask.

I hope that makes sense to someone besides me, lol. M

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Post #: 26

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 1/27/2005 2:04:50 PM

DeadofKnight

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/2/2004
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Hello everyone,
This is, and has been, an interesting thread with a few distinct viewpoints.
So, here's mine.
All to much, I have seen the dryness and directness that can be in the communications of being involved in this lifestyle. Yes, I have been there, done that, in, at least, a few of my emails in my early years. BORING!! While directness is a good quality, dryness is not, IMO.
Humor and laughter can break the walls of uncertainty and shyness. Flirting is another way of doing this as well.
Does it mean that you are not REAL by being flirtatious? NO.
Does it mean you are creating a transparency, some dishonesty, and not the person you wish to portray? NO, again.
Does it mean it is easy to spot those that are not "real"? Sadly, NO.
We all know there are posers and players encompassed within this style of life. And, they seem to far our weigh those that are real in their endeavors. Some are very good at hiding the fact that they really are predators (men, mostly).
As with any part of life, it is not easy to find someone that you connect with, that you integrate well with and that you can actually communicate with. I have found that humor and flirtation are a necessity in getting to know anyone that you really do wish to know. Again, my opinion.
Flirting and humor can be a way of broaching a sensitive subject. While bold dryness is like saying, Take-it-or-leave-it, that’s the way it is, or that’s the way I am. When you dump the cards on the table, some are face up, while others are face down. While the ones that are face up can be very interesting, our real curiosity is in the ones that are face down, the unknown. We all have areas of curiosity and cautiousness, we also have those that we show plainly.
Yes, I have introduced humor into the idea of this thread. That may not have been intended by the OP, but, it should be included with that of flirting. Again, my opinion.

Flirting is a way of showing interest.
Humor can be a way of getting beyond walls of sensitivity.

DoK

< Message edited by DeadofKnight -- 3/5/2005 10:31:58 AM >

_____________________________

Knight

These are my views and my opinions. Please treat them as such.
If you'd like to ask a question of my posts, mail me here on Collarme.
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Post #: 27

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 2/6/2005 7:35:13 AM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I will agree to some extent DoK HOWEVER
Like My self whom has never been either
flirtatious nor humorious has established
My exsistance by My dry straightforward
demeanor lets say...........JMPO

ThAtS My StOrY aNd Im StIcKiNg 2 iT!

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Post #: 28

RE: transparency, honesty and d/s flirting. - 2/6/2005 12:45:22 PM

SpankerJohnn

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greetings A/all......interesting issue. i have over 12 years in the lifestyle and i have tried to be consistent. i find myself agreeing with laura. i try for honesty and the problem is it can lead to misunderstanding if you don't have several days/weeks of chats that have built up the background on the person you are chatting with....an answer to a simple question can explode in your face because you know little about the baggage the other brings to the chat. and this applies to r/l interactions also of course. there must be a middle ground on flirting without having all your flags flying.... spanker_john

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Post #: 29